CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE
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1John 2:6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Ephes 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Walking in love and doing righteousness are often shown together, especially in what manifests itself as the children of God or the devil, not being deceived concerning either really. You have that "even as he" thing in there
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Coming in here late, I know. I just got back from worship team practice. God really blessed our time together of praising God in practice.
Anyway, first, are you telling me I cannot comment on your posts, because we have never "talked?" Well, I'm not sure where you have been - I've seen you here a few times. As for me, anyone will attest that I am in this forum daily! So if you have not "talked" to me, that is because you were not around.
As for me, yes, I do know the Bible well, and also in Greek and Hebrew. I spend a lot of time researching and studying the Bible, as well as praying for God to show me his truths. I learn something every day. I know I will keep on learning about God and how to serve him till the day I die.
But, this is an open forum and if you want to join in, don't be surprised if someone challenges you when you post things that are not scripturally true.
Just to put 2 Cor. 3:18 into context, and that Moses had to veil his face because the Israelites might not gaze at it.
"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?" 2 Cor. 3:7
"Since we have such a hope, we are very bold,13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:12-18
So with unveiled faces we are beholding the glory of the Lord, which like Moses, is reflected in our faces. Christ is reflected in us. We do not see ourselves as Christ, but rather the world sees Christ reflected on our faces.
As for Romans 8:30
"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:18-30
"οὓς δὲ προώρισεν, τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν· καὶ οὓς ἐκάλεσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδικαίωσεν· οὓς δὲ ἐδικαίωσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδόξασεν." Romans 8:30 Greek.
The verbs in bold above in the Greek are in the Aorist. The aorist does NOT mean "past tense." Rather it can be an undefined point in time. It could also be a gnomic aorist, meaning that it was always true.
However, in this case, scholars agree that Paul is looking at the believer's glorification from the standpoint of God, who has already decreed that it should take place. While not yet experienced, the divine decision to glorify those who have been justified has already been made, the issue has been settled.
This is also know as the "already and not yet" dimension of New Testament theology. The believer is "already" redeemed, justified, and reconciled to God. While the believe is "not yet" been glorified, released from suffering and temptation and the like.
Indeed, the Aorist speaks of God who sees the end from the beginning and in who decree and purpose all future events are comprehended and fixed.
It is not "past" tense as we would say in English. In fact, it simply defies the truth to say that we are already glorified. I know I live in a broken body, and everyone else I know is going downhill, even the very young. When we are glorified, we will receive a glorified body. We also will not be tempted by sin. So any idea that we are glorified now is nonsense and is simply not biblical.
Even Jesus, when he lived on this earth was not glorified.
"Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." John 7:39
"His disciples did not understand these things at first, but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things had been written about him and had been done to him." John `1:`6
"Παρακαλῶ οὖν ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, διὰ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν τοῦ θεοῦ παραστῆσαι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν θυσίαν ζῶσαν ἁγίαν εὐάρεστον τῷ θεῷ, τὴν λογικὴν λατρείαν ὑμῶν· 2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον." Romans 12:1-2 Greek
It is Christ that is transforming us, and renewing our minds. It is not us being "self aware." "The renewing of the mind" is the means by which transformation takes place. "Mind"is the translation of νοός that Paul uses especially to connote a person's "practical reasoning" or "moral consciousness." Christians are to adjust their way of thinking about everything in accordance with the "newness" of the Spirit (Romans 7:6). This reprogramming of the mind does not happen overnight, but is a life long process by which our way of thinking is to resemble more and more the way God wants us to think.
In Romans 1:28 Paul pointed out that people's rejection of God has resulted in God giving them over to a "worthless" state of mind: one that is unqualified (ἀδόκιμον νοῦν) in assessing the truth about God and the world he has made.
Now, Paul asserts the purpose of our being transformed by the renewing of the mind, is that this state in Romans 1:28 might be reversed and we might be able to approve by testing -δοκιμάζειν. "Approving" the will of God means to understand and agree with God wants us to put into practice.
God is NOT creating an "self awareness" in us. That is gnosticism. Instead, God is leading and guiding us by the power of the Holy Spirit, to renew our minds in him, and in the Word. It is never about us - and always about Jesus. Because you focus on your self, you have shown that you really do not get what the entire Bible is about. It is always about Christ - it is never about us. It is never about creating self awareness.
For every single verse you post - I can show you in the Greek how you are wrong. So if you want to post more verses, feel free. It's good to dig into the Word and see what it says, in order to correct this terrible "all about me" theology, which is sounds more like a personality disorder, than the power of God changing hearts and lives so we may worship and serve God.
Anyway, first, are you telling me I cannot comment on your posts, because we have never "talked?" Well, I'm not sure where you have been - I've seen you here a few times. As for me, anyone will attest that I am in this forum daily! So if you have not "talked" to me, that is because you were not around.
As for me, yes, I do know the Bible well, and also in Greek and Hebrew. I spend a lot of time researching and studying the Bible, as well as praying for God to show me his truths. I learn something every day. I know I will keep on learning about God and how to serve him till the day I die.
But, this is an open forum and if you want to join in, don't be surprised if someone challenges you when you post things that are not scripturally true.
Just to put 2 Cor. 3:18 into context, and that Moses had to veil his face because the Israelites might not gaze at it.
"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?" 2 Cor. 3:7
"Since we have such a hope, we are very bold,13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:12-18
So with unveiled faces we are beholding the glory of the Lord, which like Moses, is reflected in our faces. Christ is reflected in us. We do not see ourselves as Christ, but rather the world sees Christ reflected on our faces.
As for Romans 8:30
"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:18-30
"οὓς δὲ προώρισεν, τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν· καὶ οὓς ἐκάλεσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδικαίωσεν· οὓς δὲ ἐδικαίωσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδόξασεν." Romans 8:30 Greek.
The verbs in bold above in the Greek are in the Aorist. The aorist does NOT mean "past tense." Rather it can be an undefined point in time. It could also be a gnomic aorist, meaning that it was always true.
However, in this case, scholars agree that Paul is looking at the believer's glorification from the standpoint of God, who has already decreed that it should take place. While not yet experienced, the divine decision to glorify those who have been justified has already been made, the issue has been settled.
This is also know as the "already and not yet" dimension of New Testament theology. The believer is "already" redeemed, justified, and reconciled to God. While the believe is "not yet" been glorified, released from suffering and temptation and the like.
Indeed, the Aorist speaks of God who sees the end from the beginning and in who decree and purpose all future events are comprehended and fixed.
It is not "past" tense as we would say in English. In fact, it simply defies the truth to say that we are already glorified. I know I live in a broken body, and everyone else I know is going downhill, even the very young. When we are glorified, we will receive a glorified body. We also will not be tempted by sin. So any idea that we are glorified now is nonsense and is simply not biblical.
Even Jesus, when he lived on this earth was not glorified.
"Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." John 7:39
"His disciples did not understand these things at first, but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things had been written about him and had been done to him." John `1:`6
"Παρακαλῶ οὖν ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, διὰ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν τοῦ θεοῦ παραστῆσαι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν θυσίαν ζῶσαν ἁγίαν εὐάρεστον τῷ θεῷ, τὴν λογικὴν λατρείαν ὑμῶν· 2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον." Romans 12:1-2 Greek
It is Christ that is transforming us, and renewing our minds. It is not us being "self aware." "The renewing of the mind" is the means by which transformation takes place. "Mind"is the translation of νοός that Paul uses especially to connote a person's "practical reasoning" or "moral consciousness." Christians are to adjust their way of thinking about everything in accordance with the "newness" of the Spirit (Romans 7:6). This reprogramming of the mind does not happen overnight, but is a life long process by which our way of thinking is to resemble more and more the way God wants us to think.
In Romans 1:28 Paul pointed out that people's rejection of God has resulted in God giving them over to a "worthless" state of mind: one that is unqualified (ἀδόκιμον νοῦν) in assessing the truth about God and the world he has made.
Now, Paul asserts the purpose of our being transformed by the renewing of the mind, is that this state in Romans 1:28 might be reversed and we might be able to approve by testing -δοκιμάζειν. "Approving" the will of God means to understand and agree with God wants us to put into practice.
God is NOT creating an "self awareness" in us. That is gnosticism. Instead, God is leading and guiding us by the power of the Holy Spirit, to renew our minds in him, and in the Word. It is never about us - and always about Jesus. Because you focus on your self, you have shown that you really do not get what the entire Bible is about. It is always about Christ - it is never about us. It is never about creating self awareness.
For every single verse you post - I can show you in the Greek how you are wrong. So if you want to post more verses, feel free. It's good to dig into the Word and see what it says, in order to correct this terrible "all about me" theology, which is sounds more like a personality disorder, than the power of God changing hearts and lives so we may worship and serve God.
Those scriptures are from God's point of view, then there is our side.
For instance, Jesus has taken our sicknesses, and we are the healed, but not every Christian walks in divine health.
Jesus has freed us from sin, but you still choose to live in sin.
Jesus has given us an abundant life, but not every Christian lives in the abundant life.
We have to present the right Biblical balance.
For instance, Jesus has taken our sicknesses, and we are the healed, but not every Christian walks in divine health.
Jesus has freed us from sin, but you still choose to live in sin.
Jesus has given us an abundant life, but not every Christian lives in the abundant life.
We have to present the right Biblical balance.
as it is written:read:
Isaiah 32:2
A man shall be as a hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the storm, as streams of water in a dry place, as the shade of a large rock in a weary land. 3*The eyes of those who see will not be dim,
****and the ears of those who hear will listen.
4*The heart of the rash will understand knowledge,
****and the tongue of the stammerers will be ready to speak plainly.
5*The fool will no longer be called noble,
****nor the scoundrel be highly respected.
6*For the fool will speak folly,
****and his heart will work iniquity,
****to practice profanity,
****and to utter error against the LORD,
****To make empty the soul of the hungry,
****and to cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7*The ways of the scoundrel are evil.
****He devises wicked devices to destroy the humble with lying words,
****even when the needy speaks right.
8*But the noble devises noble things;
****and he will continue in noble things.
:ty:
godbless us all always
You're right we are Christ aware. And we find our life hid in Him.
He is the Vine and we are His branches.
He is the Spirit and we are His Temple.
He is the head and we are His Body.
He has made us one with Him.
My self-awareness is simply knowing who I am in Christ. The great and precious promises He has given me. And yes we are glorified, I am not talking about our bodies. Obviously. I am talking about our spirit that is joined with Him. You might put this reality off, but I believe it. I walk in it and I celebrate it.
"I ask that You give them the same glory you gave Me so that they might be one as we are one."
"From now on we know no one according to the flesh, but according to the spirit".
Let's stop focusing on the flesh. And focus on Christ.
C.
He is the Vine and we are His branches.
He is the Spirit and we are His Temple.
He is the head and we are His Body.
He has made us one with Him.
My self-awareness is simply knowing who I am in Christ. The great and precious promises He has given me. And yes we are glorified, I am not talking about our bodies. Obviously. I am talking about our spirit that is joined with Him. You might put this reality off, but I believe it. I walk in it and I celebrate it.
"I ask that You give them the same glory you gave Me so that they might be one as we are one."
"From now on we know no one according to the flesh, but according to the spirit".
Let's stop focusing on the flesh. And focus on Christ.
C.
I have found that a lot of us use the term "By the spirit" without knowing what we are talking about (myself also)
If we are now hidden in Christ and are walking in the spirit then that must mean that EVERYTHING is Jesus.. NOTHING of us.. Otherwise we would be half flesh half spirit wouldn't we?
I think it's really important in our discussions and disagreements to unpack with one another and say, This is what I don't agree with.. Let's try our best to help one another understand what we are trying to teach...Instead of attacking one another because we think the other is wrong but really can't explain why.. That's completely ignorant and is not the work of the spirit..
The spirit is ALWAYS love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness,gentleness and self control.
If we see ourselves getting angry or rude at one another we then know we are no longer operating in the spirit but through our flesh.. A humble heart is a heart that is open to be taught, a heart that would say "Okay, I may not agree with that but I am going to look into it and try and understand it before I respond" A prideful heart is a heart of the pharisee's unteachable, so strong in their opinion that they are not willing to be budged by anything.. Won't even consider what the other person is saying..
I lift each and every heart to the Lord this morning and I pray that he would soften all that is hard in us.. Every heart that wants to be right will be humbled.. I pray that each one of us would know the truth and the truth would set us free.. In Jesus name. Amen x
If we are now hidden in Christ and are walking in the spirit then that must mean that EVERYTHING is Jesus.. NOTHING of us.. Otherwise we would be half flesh half spirit wouldn't we?
I think it's really important in our discussions and disagreements to unpack with one another and say, This is what I don't agree with.. Let's try our best to help one another understand what we are trying to teach...Instead of attacking one another because we think the other is wrong but really can't explain why.. That's completely ignorant and is not the work of the spirit..
The spirit is ALWAYS love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness,gentleness and self control.
If we see ourselves getting angry or rude at one another we then know we are no longer operating in the spirit but through our flesh.. A humble heart is a heart that is open to be taught, a heart that would say "Okay, I may not agree with that but I am going to look into it and try and understand it before I respond" A prideful heart is a heart of the pharisee's unteachable, so strong in their opinion that they are not willing to be budged by anything.. Won't even consider what the other person is saying..
I lift each and every heart to the Lord this morning and I pray that he would soften all that is hard in us.. Every heart that wants to be right will be humbled.. I pray that each one of us would know the truth and the truth would set us free.. In Jesus name. Amen x
There is an unfortunate position here relating to language. If I say today, I have not sinned, the Lord has not laid on my heart a sin I need to repent of, am I lying? Is my heart deceived? Am I boasting? Or maybe I am reflecting purity and holiness.
Now I do not normally use language like this, but God does. He desires His people walk in love like a light. Now this is our default position, once cleansed of sin, walking in the Spirit.
Now if someone says I agree we should deal with sin etc. except we can never be free from it, that is "total inability" faith.
It is not quantifying sin, or really focusing on walking in purity, it is saying ignore it and focus on christ.
My point is the temple, clearly defines what holiness is, dwelling with God, and only once a year the high priest can enter the holy of holies. It is though possible, walking in holiness and purity.
When the temple curtain was torn in two, the divide had gone. The law was written on our hearts so we would walk in purity and holiness as our birth right. When did this birth right become empty, so it reads we walk in sin day and night, but are counted righteous. Jesus is talking emotions, sorting out the difference between what you feel as a reaction to events and what you choose to sow into your life.
You will always feel attraction, appreciation of beauty, wealth and power, but you can sow to love in marriage, work in professions, power in serving others. It is this that comes to define who and what you are. And it is all built on the love of Christ brought through the cross. Now I speak what millions have experienced and walk in everyday.
I am just discussing two different faiths and their perspectives. It is not slander, it is how you view life, sin, purity, righteousness and acceptance by God. I am happy to testify to my and your faith. Yet you put this in agressive malice terms, hatred etc where there is none.
From my perspective though we use similar language when witnessing and talking discipleship, I have to teach a different line to your own because that is my faith. I wish you well, but it is an illusion to say we follow in the same way.
Now I do not normally use language like this, but God does. He desires His people walk in love like a light. Now this is our default position, once cleansed of sin, walking in the Spirit.
Now if someone says I agree we should deal with sin etc. except we can never be free from it, that is "total inability" faith.
It is not quantifying sin, or really focusing on walking in purity, it is saying ignore it and focus on christ.
My point is the temple, clearly defines what holiness is, dwelling with God, and only once a year the high priest can enter the holy of holies. It is though possible, walking in holiness and purity.
When the temple curtain was torn in two, the divide had gone. The law was written on our hearts so we would walk in purity and holiness as our birth right. When did this birth right become empty, so it reads we walk in sin day and night, but are counted righteous. Jesus is talking emotions, sorting out the difference between what you feel as a reaction to events and what you choose to sow into your life.
You will always feel attraction, appreciation of beauty, wealth and power, but you can sow to love in marriage, work in professions, power in serving others. It is this that comes to define who and what you are. And it is all built on the love of Christ brought through the cross. Now I speak what millions have experienced and walk in everyday.
I am just discussing two different faiths and their perspectives. It is not slander, it is how you view life, sin, purity, righteousness and acceptance by God. I am happy to testify to my and your faith. Yet you put this in agressive malice terms, hatred etc where there is none.
From my perspective though we use similar language when witnessing and talking discipleship, I have to teach a different line to your own because that is my faith. I wish you well, but it is an illusion to say we follow in the same way.
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So Peter, please tell me what enables you to be able to walk in Love and righteousness? Is it your effort ? Or do we both agree that it is by the grace of God through faith and the righteousness of Jesus by the forgiveness of sins.. Please in the most simple form answer me that
I am walking, it is me who is doing the actions and reactions. My behaviour patterns used to be conformed to this world and my experiences, but has now been brought into the Kingdom of God to be conformed to the Lord.
As I am remade through obedience, I become someone different. So though it is me choosing and walking, I am guided, healed and led by the Spirit. It is not a mystical Jesus taking me over, dictating my moves.
So the image of my effort or Gods effort is miss-leading. God can show you realities, but it is still you who are seeing and reacting to them, even being lead to a place where you see them. It is not God mystically doing it in your life.
Healing is different though. This is God directly changing things physically, spiritually in your life. But it seems He stops short of effecting ones will. As Jesus said we should pray,
"Lead us not into temptation" Matt 6:13
Not a simple subject though, which I think your world view would want to make it.
I would agree with words like, "It is not me who lives, but Christ within me"
This is not to say Christ is literally within me, but it is His work of redemption and transformation, obedience to His word and Spirit, that makes me a Child of God. I in myself am lost, but in communion and relationship follow.
This is the way the gnostics thought. A special l̶e̶n̶s̶ knowing was needed to see who you really were, an eternal spirit being. They considered Christians to be carnal and unable to see the mystery that they were already perfect because they were hung up on religion.
Yes..you are so right! It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us and His blood was red. That is a great observation.
Okay so you don't believe that Christ is in you and you are in him is what you are saying? So you don't believe you have been born again of the spirit? I would also disagree with you saying it's not a simple subject as in 2 corinthians 11:3 Paul says: But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
Also I have to point out your point that says it's your choosing to be led by the spirit.. Not one of us on here have once disagreed with that have we ? We just humbly admit that it's because of grace we are able to... Strip away the grace of God and it's impossible to follow the lead of the spirit is it not?
One more thing you keep talking of this mystical Jesus I'm not quite sure how you define the word "mystical"
mystic
ˈmɪstɪk/Submit
noun
plural noun: mystics
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.
Do you disagree with this definition ?
Also I have to point out your point that says it's your choosing to be led by the spirit.. Not one of us on here have once disagreed with that have we ? We just humbly admit that it's because of grace we are able to... Strip away the grace of God and it's impossible to follow the lead of the spirit is it not?
One more thing you keep talking of this mystical Jesus I'm not quite sure how you define the word "mystical"
mystic
ˈmɪstɪk/Submit
noun
plural noun: mystics
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.
Do you disagree with this definition ?
We know that not every Christian isn't abiding in Jesus, as they are living for themselves, and not living for Jesus.
The fruit, in Jn 15, Is producing the character of Jesus, Yet we know most of the Christians are producing self.
We know Jesus isn't the head of every Christian, as they are their own lords.
Jesus has given us the privilege of being one with Him, But we know not every Christian is one with Jesus.+
You are right, We should focus on Jesus and the Spirit, not on the flesh.
The renewing of the mind is of the utmost importance in our Christian life in the Lord. Sanctification which is different from righteousness. Here are the scriptures to go along with sanctification and being sanctified.
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..
Perfect = an event that happened in the past and it's effects are continuously happening in the present as a completed state. Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..
Perfect = an event that happened in the past and it's effects are continuously happening in the present as a completed state. Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
We know that every Christian is not abiding in Jesus.. Do then are they really Christian? This is where this kind of argument shows to be pointless.. If someone isn't abiding in Jesus then they are non Christian so why do we even need to discuss that?
How would you define abiding "in" Jesus... Not next to him, not in front of or behind him.. But "in" him?
How would you define abiding "in" Jesus... Not next to him, not in front of or behind him.. But "in" him?
This is the reason we need to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ because in it is the only power of God for salvation - so that we can grow up into Him in all things and live free from the sin that He set us free from.
This is done by believing in Christ's finished work for us and believing in righteousness is paramount.
This is done by believing in Christ's finished work for us and believing in righteousness is paramount.
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
John 17:20-21
This could be read in a mystical way, we are one, ie one being, one consciousness, one unity, or as a shared approach to existance, a shared heart and reaction to issues as they appear.
In fellowship we share one heart, one desire, one agreement, but we are not mystically bound. I have experienced this and been part of the expression of Christs body on earth. So rather than being a mystical reality, it is actually a life reality, when you meet a christian you meet Christ and the Father. Unfortunately in another way we often meet the frail reality of the expression of Christ and the Father rather than its reality.
For the mystics, it is the expression of the eternal new heart that matters in Christ, but this is words rather than anything meaningful or a feeling connected to a name. It is like people who say it is deep to say "God is God" when it is merely a linguistic trick of creating a loop of a simple idea, one word is obviously itself and nothing else, because that is what language is. Or a famous one is, can you hear one hand clapping. Obviously a clap cannot be created by one hand, so cause and effect do not exist, but is the world dictated by cause and effect? And the simple is as far as we know.
So to just say focus on Christ is just emotional language with apparent meaning but you can make it mean anything you want. I would say focus of Christ, God going to the cross, forgiving sin, walking into the evil of the world and submitting to death. That is Gods love, Gods demonstration of life and our walk. It is healing to my heart, inspiration and humbleness.
On focus on His commands and why he gave them, how obedience is life to the soul, and how sin destroys the foundations of meaning. When you begin to see it clearly, you know what Jesus is addressing. You cannot sit on a branch and then cut it off and expect not to die.
John 17:20-21
This could be read in a mystical way, we are one, ie one being, one consciousness, one unity, or as a shared approach to existance, a shared heart and reaction to issues as they appear.
In fellowship we share one heart, one desire, one agreement, but we are not mystically bound. I have experienced this and been part of the expression of Christs body on earth. So rather than being a mystical reality, it is actually a life reality, when you meet a christian you meet Christ and the Father. Unfortunately in another way we often meet the frail reality of the expression of Christ and the Father rather than its reality.
For the mystics, it is the expression of the eternal new heart that matters in Christ, but this is words rather than anything meaningful or a feeling connected to a name. It is like people who say it is deep to say "God is God" when it is merely a linguistic trick of creating a loop of a simple idea, one word is obviously itself and nothing else, because that is what language is. Or a famous one is, can you hear one hand clapping. Obviously a clap cannot be created by one hand, so cause and effect do not exist, but is the world dictated by cause and effect? And the simple is as far as we know.
So to just say focus on Christ is just emotional language with apparent meaning but you can make it mean anything you want. I would say focus of Christ, God going to the cross, forgiving sin, walking into the evil of the world and submitting to death. That is Gods love, Gods demonstration of life and our walk. It is healing to my heart, inspiration and humbleness.
On focus on His commands and why he gave them, how obedience is life to the soul, and how sin destroys the foundations of meaning. When you begin to see it clearly, you know what Jesus is addressing. You cannot sit on a branch and then cut it off and expect not to die.
All this foolish talk that "looking unto Jesus and seeing what Jesus has done for us" = that this is "being self-aware" and "gnostic" is just garbage talk. This is just religious nonsense talk to get us focused on our flesh instead of the Lord Jesus Christ
The fact is that we are one with Christ in the spirit. We are children of God - are we not to consider what that means? We don't live in some sort of a vacuum from the Lord Jesus Christ and our Father. We are one with Him.
James says that the person who looks into the perfect law of liberty and forgets who he is a forgetful hearer. The whole epistles written after the Lord's resurrection talk about Christ and all that happened to us because of His finished work and that we are to grow up in Him.
The fact is that we are one with Christ in the spirit. We are children of God - are we not to consider what that means? We don't live in some sort of a vacuum from the Lord Jesus Christ and our Father. We are one with Him.
James says that the person who looks into the perfect law of liberty and forgets who he is a forgetful hearer. The whole epistles written after the Lord's resurrection talk about Christ and all that happened to us because of His finished work and that we are to grow up in Him.
Peter you are speaking from the knowledge of your natural mind.. Of course we know the things of the spirit do not make sense to our minds... You keep using the word mystical like it has a completely different meaning to it than what it does... I will end here because otherwise I am going round and around in circles with u again..
I'll leave u with this though.. The father loves you more than anyone ever has and ever will, He sent Jesus to die for you, even if you were the only one to walk the earth he would of still done it because that's how precious you are. Your a unique creation and there is no one else like you. It's the fathers desire that you know how deeply and intimately loved you are.. Think of the most loving, deepest most intimate relationship you have ever had with another human being and times it by infinity.. That's the kind of relationship the father wants with his children. He has made that possible by the sacrifice of his one and only son. I pray you will know this. God bless you xx
I'll leave u with this though.. The father loves you more than anyone ever has and ever will, He sent Jesus to die for you, even if you were the only one to walk the earth he would of still done it because that's how precious you are. Your a unique creation and there is no one else like you. It's the fathers desire that you know how deeply and intimately loved you are.. Think of the most loving, deepest most intimate relationship you have ever had with another human being and times it by infinity.. That's the kind of relationship the father wants with his children. He has made that possible by the sacrifice of his one and only son. I pray you will know this. God bless you xx