CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE

[Zmouth]

Well, let's see, they stitched together some fig leaves after they realized that it gets cooler than heck in the morning running around in the buff. (After all, they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: )


Moreover, with the term 'spirit' is derived from the Greek word 'pneuma' which means 'air' or 'wind', (i.e. pneumatic tools) then one can't help but wonder if they were just trying to hid from the cold wind that was blowing.

But then again, the Torah wouldn't have been written in Greek.


Of course my Bible contains the passage "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

And the Holy Ghost commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:16


Gen 1:29
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


The tree yielding seed is the fruit which is a great source of protein (ex. walnuts provide around 15g of protein per 100gs whereas a fig would only provide .3g of protein per 100g)

 

[Willie-T]

I have read all the post here and thought I'd address a few findings I have found to possibly shed a brighter light on the subjects.
Ill give those that need it some time to sharpen up their swords and axes as the custom of cc regulations. Lol.

It was posted earlier that to stand before God naked was a sign of being pure and innocent this I found true to a short extent.
Adam and eve were not in need of a covering in their original state, only when sin had been committed a covering was needed and could only be provided by the Lord . What we do to cover sin is not acceptable. We can never stand naked before God again, we need to have the robes of righteousness, Jesus even expressed this in scripture about the man at the wedding feast not having the proper garment as was cast out.
God is always ready to forgive sin that is true but he is more interested on why we have sinned (the intent of the heart) eve sinned to become as God knowing good and evil being tempted Adam sinned because eve did scripture does not say Adam was privy with eve at the time of her conversation with the serpent. Scripture showing that sin is perpetual. Scripture showing by temptation .
This being in line with Jesus becoming sin why because we were yet sinners.
If we look at eve being the church and Adam being Jesus (the second Adam) the story line stays true.
Notice also that Adam blames eve but eve is the one that confessions and tells God how it happened.
Jesus being innocent had nothing to confess before his accusers not saying Adam was innocent but Jesus was.
Also Jesus was in the labor of love sorta speak giving up heaven and all it glory, the throne and his divine existence to become man.
Adam out of the garden, toiling by the sweat of his brow...etc.
Hiding from the truth is what we do best Adam and eve being examples of this in their now fallen state but God will search you out and find you. All great and small will stand before the Lord. The lie from Satan is that God's come to destroy you for sinning, we know that Jesus has come to rescue us for its grip. Condemnation I believe comes from not knowing the Lord , Adam and eve had to be taught the same as you and I about the forgiving and merciful God we have and serve.

Good thinking. And excellent conclusions.

 

[Willie-T]

Here again, peter?
You could be more gentle with your tongue perhaps.
Total ignorance? To give your thought and say, It was PROBABLY satan...that's total ignorance? To me, that's just a conversation and a back and forth between brothers. It's like saying, I think this way on it, that it was probably satan. And then another brother might say, hmm...I see it more like this or that...and then another might bring up a verse that occurs to them as relevent. If all remain respectful always guided by love, eventually the Spirit brings a unity in our understanding. Maybe small differences in how we see it or phrase it but a basic and strong unity.
Please brother, just a bit more gentleness?
Total ignorance?
This is why you run into such problems with your brothers and sisters.

Yes, but you think and consider things. Peter seem to have to believe that he already KNOWS all things.

 

[Willie-T]

This is total ignorance of the symbol of nakedness is scripture. It is always about vulnerability and sin. It is deemed sinful, a disgrace to see another naked. It has sexual and demeaning implications, where you see someones sexual attraction but without the appropriateness of the context of the actual relationship.

It is why in business, you 100% do not want anything to have personal intimacy involved in discussion of a power, political, commercial and otherwise nature.

Adam knew he was naked because he had become a self aware being. He could objectify good and evil, see that there is choice in action and consequences. It was 100% a consequence of eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now for me if you want to summarise the perception of a teacher, their understanding of God, His word and everything spiritual this type of teaching would be it. And unfortunately it would be ignorant, stupid, blind, irrelevant and desperate.

And the best God could do was come up with what, then, would have to have been the craziest question yet.... " WHO told you?" I wonder why God would ask that specific question, if someone had not TOLD (accused in his mind) Adam?

 

[royalscot]

salvation

the full picture. read the full book.


you talk about original or origin of sin in genesis.(the fall)

yet are blind or naive to romans 5

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


that give the reason to , why there is no longer a law. to a christian that is saved.

would also give
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."


salvation
salˈveɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• 1.
  preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]lifeline, preservation, conservation, means of escape"she clung to that conviction, knowing it was her salvation"
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  • 
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
  
  
  
• 2.
  THEOLOGY
  deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the Christian gospel of salvation for all mankind"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]redemption, deliverance, saving, help, reclamation"we are here to bring you to salvation by way of repentance"
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

starting at 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

let me remind , ware you read, no condemnation. romans 8.

so how do you miss the origin or original, of rome 5 (a other first time, )etc

you would need to read rome 5 to get to rome 8 , yet are still talking about sin. yet if you believe in a saviour, then rome 5 , already explains what jesus has already done for you.

read this book for your selfs, make up your own mind.

the reason that there is no condemnation, was never achieved by us.

a new covenant you were all born into.

if you still have condemnation in your life, then your are not getting that a god through jesus christ.

yes i know it hard to understand.

when you first believed , yet never understood.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through himJohn 3

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life(the holy spirit) has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. Romans 8: Life in the Spirit

neigative thought only produce weeds that chock the truth.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Exodus 32:25
And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies)

Isaiah 47:3
Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

Nahum 3:5
Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[royalscot]

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John 14: I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life

the way, to the truth to the father (god)

there is a reason blind eyes can t see.

 

[pottersclay]

Condemnation comes from the lack of knowledge of God. The serpent said " hath God said" placing doubt in ourselves knowing God's word. A lot of bible thumpers know scripture but do you know God? In the case of eve she knew what God said but added to the command making her actions more justified. We do the same in many cases if we are truthful . We say things to hurt someone or do things to hurt someone ...why...because they hurt us or angered us. We all were taught by this world and it's examples on what love is, wealth is, beauty is, friendship, is, and all its version of right and wrong. We need to be deprogramed and reprogrammed, we need a new heart, to be born again, to let our old selves die. This is part of the foolishness of God. Why because the world sees it another way.
Not to make this a long post but just compare on your own what the bible speaks of is good conduct compared to the world's teachings. God put the boundaries on good and evil not man. But we all insist on knowing good and evil so here it is a front row seat just look out your window, watch the news, as sin the perpetual deception reeks havoc on our society today.

 

[royalscot]

sorry. an other parable to explain salvation. v let me think lol

 

[royalscot]

salvation


is the word your reject, or believe. yet none agree.

 

[KenAllan]

But there was no Condemnation in the Garden of Eden. So how can Condemnation be the root cause? I believe Condemnation is the result, not the root cause.

Now, what was the root cause that resulted in Condemnation?

I believe because God created us with the ability of free will,the ability to chose for ourselves, it was then because of our free will that caused Adam to sin, not Condemnation.

Adam was created with free will. Adam decided by his free will to sin. Therefore because he chose to sin Condemnation was the end result of his sin.

I believe Condemnation is the result, not the root. I believe the root is man's free will.

 

[PeterJens]

And the best God could do was come up with what, then, would have to have been the craziest question yet.... " WHO told you?" I wonder why God would ask that specific question, if someone had not TOLD (accused in his mind) Adam?

Interesting point. I remember I talked to someone about love from the heart in a marriage relationship. This womans response to me was who told you that. No one had told me, I had worked it out for myself.

Now Adam had two situations to have knowledge of nakedness.
1. He was told but did not understand
2. He had become self aware and knew it was wrong after eating of the fruit

God is assuming the first option giving Adam the two alternative, and Adam confesses it is the second option.

You could read it satan told him, but all the other conversations are recorded, so why not this one if it took place.
This is my reading, but if you want another interpretation that is fine.

 

[Grace777x70]

But there was no Condemnation in the Garden of Eden. So how can Condemnation be the root cause? I believe Condemnation is the result, not the root cause.

Now, what was the root cause that resulted in Condemnation?

I believe because God created us with the ability of free will,the ability to chose for ourselves, it was then because of our free will that caused Adam to sin, not Condemnation.

Adam was created with free will. Adam decided by his free will to sin. Therefore because he chose to sin Condemnation was the end result of his sin.

I believe Condemnation is the result, not the root. I believe the root is man's free will.

Condemnation came after Adam sinned not before it. Don't know where you got that from that it was in the garden of Eden. It's a product of sin. But here is the gist of the OP again.

"Condemnation is the root cause of the symptoms of the curse manifesting in your life. That is why you need to know that at the cross, God took all your sins, put them on Jesus and unleashed the full fury of His wrath against them until Jesus cried out, “It is finished!”

 

[Willie-T]

Condemnation came after Adam sinned not before it. Don't know where you got that from that it was in the garden of Eden. It's a product of sin. But here is the gist of the OP again.

"Condemnation is the root cause of the symptoms of the curse manifesting in your life. That is why you need to know that at the cross, God took all your sins, put them on Jesus and unleashed the full fury of His wrath against them until Jesus cried out, “It is finished!”

(Sorry, but you know I can't "LIKE" that one. LOL)

 

[Grace777x70]

(Sorry, but you know I can't "LIKE" that one. LOL)

LOL...I know.......you and I both don't agree with the OP as far as the "wrath" business and turning His back away from Jesus. I posted that for the condemnation part....good catch though...made me laugh ......

 

[God4me]

Simply turn to the psalm Jesus was quoting, and read on down to verse 24, I believe it is.

Jesus wasn't quoting Ps 22. It was David's prophecy about Jesus on the cross, and what He said.

V24 doesn't contradict v1, and God not hiding His face from Jesus, doesn't mean He didn't forsake Jesus.
Both the Hebrew for "forsaken" , Ps 22: 1. And the Greek for forsaken, Matt 27: 46, mean, "to forsake, to leave and to abandon".

Either God is telling the truth, or He is deceiving us.

 

[JaumeJ]

Responding with my first thoughts to the title only of this post, condemnation is the result of judging, and no flesh is given to judge others to condemnation without bringing judgement upon himself.

We know that any who break even the least of the laws is deemed guilty of having broken all of the law. This is a stearn warning of never to judge others to condemnation, although we are commanded (almost) to judge for ourselves what is right and correct......

All too many so-called believers of the Messiah are very quick to point the finger to a specific law broken, sin, and condemn the sinner. How is this imitating Christ, when all sins are forgiven in Him?

Do not judge to condemnation lest you condemn yourself. Do not march around posing as God's personal prosecutor, for the One Who has this right prefers mercy, and He shows mercy to all who believe Him, so watch out you do not overstep your privileged salvation in judging anyone for anything.

God bless all who truly love and hear Jesus Christ, amen

 

[Trail-of-Truth]

No one told them they were naked, they ate of the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and EVIL.

I agree that there is no condemnation for someone IN Christ, but a lot of people who think they are in Christ are not.

And God does discipline those He accepts as a son or daughter. There are still rewards and consequences.

The bible says, "Each one must CONTINUE to work out his salvation with fear and trembling." And that was written to Christians already saved, why? Because not everyone who calls Him 'Lord' will be saved, but ONLY those who DO the will of the Father.

 

[Leonor]

Yes. In my opinion condemnation kills. Don't beat urself up for the things you had done in the past. (There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. -Rom 8:1-2)

 

[ladylynn]

Yes, I am. And when I sin I am glad I have an Advocate...I love to return to fellowship after I have sinned by confessing my sin...not by confessing my righteousness in Him

Confessing our righteousness in Christ before God is very pleasing to God because it magnifies the Son. It shows that we have faith in Christ's finished work, not our own capacity to see evil and turn from it and then think we are righteous in God's sight for that.

And 'that' my friend is the MAJOR difference in confessing our righteousness in Christ and giving Jesus all the glory vs our own self righteousness apart from Christ and the "gift" of righteousness. So many Christians do not GET IT; that they are righteous not because of what they DO but they are righteous because of Jesus and what He GAVE - the GIFT of righteousness. Jesus is the one who DID it all. We stand based on Christ and that fact and on Him ALONE.

Until a believer understands this awesome concept, this Amazing Truth., they will miss many many other truths God has for them based on "faith" and not works. The one confesses their sin., while the other confesses Christ.