constantine created new testament

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Sep 10, 2013
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Ahh yes one's belief about God changes one's opinion on the importance of "why" and visa versa as well.

That question along with the mystery of death is probably the source of religion.

Anyway I respect your view, I was merely stating my opinion.

Also I would argue that atheism is also a philosophy for the "practical" soul
The source of religion, my friend, is life, this world. For the ancient religious man, the creation of the world represented the manifestation of sacrality. I tell this so that people stop thinking that religion exist because people didn't know how to explain certain things. On the contrary, you would be very surprised to see (read) about how much they actually understood from this world. The only difference between them and you is that they gave an ontological meaning to everything that surrounded them.
What practical soul? Atheism is for those that are incapable of wonder. For those that only live an exterior life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Heh I am surprised you did not know this Tintin. Yes I was a bit surprised too when I learned it, but Martin Luther did actually remove whole books of the Bible when he created his denomination, and tried to remove others as well. This is primarily why the Protestant Canon and the Catholic Canon are different (all books they have in common agree with eachother, but the Catholics have extra books known as pseudoepigrapha as well as extra parts in Daniel and Esther.)

Luther's canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. Do not go to wikepedia for your truth., they will lead you astray

Luther did not remove any book. He spoke about some as not being of apostolic authority, but he did not remove them.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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1. Do not go to wikepedia for your truth., they will lead you astray

Luther did not remove any book. He spoke about some as not being of apostolic authority, but he did not remove them.

Wikipedia is fine if one reads it properly. I originally read such about Luther in the Forward of thee Catholic version fo the Bible about their church history and Councils, but I do not have that book anymroe as I borrowed it from a friend and returned it. However the wikipedia page I gave you there collaborates much of the same, though the Catholics were a bit more thorough in describing this event.
 
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Tintin

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Heh I am surprised you did not know this Tintin. Yes I was a bit surprised too when I learned it, but Martin Luther did actually remove whole books of the Bible when he created his denomination, and tried to remove others as well. This is primarily why the Protestant Canon and the Catholic Canon are different (all books they have in common agree with eachother, but the Catholics have extra books known as pseudoepigrapha as well as extra parts in Daniel and Esther.)

Luther's canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hmm... I may be Lutheran, but in my defense we follow Christ, not Luther. We barely talk about him (apparently that's an oddity). I didn't know he got that far (maybe I did, but I forgot). It's awhile since I learned about his life. Yes, I'm aware that the Protestant and Catholic canon are different. That said, the Pseudoepigrapha is a collection of Hebrew Bible, Jewish lore (biblical fan-fiction, if you will). I have the two volumes in my bookshelf. The Catholics have the Apocrypha. I didn't really care for the additions to Esther but the Bel and the Dragon addition to Daniel was hilarious and showed the power of God over pagan gods.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wikipedia is fine if one reads it properly. I originally read such about Luther in the Forward of thee Catholic version fo the Bible about their church history and Councils, but I do not have that book anymroe as I borrowed it from a friend and returned it. However the wikipedia page I gave you there collaborates much of the same, though the Catholics were a bit more thorough in describing this event.

go to the source. I read luthers own writtings. You can find it online.

Wikepedia is just too wishy washy
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Hmm... I may be Lutheran, but in my defense we follow Christ, not Luther. We barely talk about him (apparently that's an oddity). I didn't know he got that far (maybe I did, but I forgot). It's awhile since I learned about his life. Yes, I'm aware that the Protestant and Catholic canon are different. That said, the Pseudoepigrapha is a collection of Old Testament tradition and Jewish lore (biblical fan-fiction, if you will). I have the two volumes in my bookshelf. The Catholics have the Apocrypha. I didn't really care for the additions to Esther but the Bel and the Dragon addition to Daniel was hilarious and showed the power of God over pagan gods.
Heh mind you though Luther might have been a bit dodgy of a character, but at least the other Lutherans prevented him from mutilating the Bible for all time, so by all means, good on ye Christians that call yourself Lutherans..

As for the Pseudoepigrapha, its quite interesting, read it for the first time over the space of the past few months (about from December to March of this year.) Some maybe ancient fanfiction, but I am not too sure on all of it being fanfiction. For instance the events of Maccabees is pretty well confirmed in history (indeed this is the main reason I wanted to read the pseudoepigrapha in the first place was because I knew much of the history described therein has been proven in our time today whereas back when it was removed there might've been fair reason to doubt.) I think they should convene another Council about the pseudoepigrapha. At the least for some of the more verifiable books that actually do have a pretty firm foundation in history and archaeology.
 
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Tintin

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Yes, Luther wasn't perfect but he did many great things for God. Let's also remember that the Catholic Church did all they could to smear his name. So beyond wanting to remove some books from the canon and disliking Jews, he was a great Christian role model.

Yes, 1 Maccabees is well-confirmed history. Some of the others have cultural and historical value but none of them are inspired texts. Also, all of these belong to the Apocrypha, not the Pseudoepigrapha (which includes books like Enoch 1, 2, 3, Jubilees etc.)
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Yes, Luther wasn't perfect but he did many great things for God. Let's also remember that the Catholic Church did all they could to smear his name. So beyond wanting to remove some books from the canon and disliking Jews, he was a great Christian role model.

Yes, 1 Maccabees is well-confirmed history. Some of the others have cultural and historical value but none of them are inspired texts. Also, all of these belong to the Apocrypha, not the Pseudoepigrapha (which includes books like Enoch 1, 2, 3, Jubilees etc.)
Still haven't got around to reading Enoch yet lol. I have heard of Jubilees too but never read it nor do I know what it's about. I figured those were the Apocrypha and the books like Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, etc. were Pseudoepigrapha. Though from my understanding Luther changed what Apocrypha means for Protestants to include the Pseudoepigrapha.

Also did not know Luther was an anti-semite. Though that explains a lot of what I been wondering in terms of all the anti-jewish stuff I see in protestantism lol.

Sigh Protestant/Catholic divide, how thou art a vexation of confusion.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Still haven't got around to reading Enoch yet lol. I have heard of Jubilees too but never read it nor do I know what it's about. I figured those were the Apocrypha and the books like Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, etc. were Pseudoepigrapha. Though from my understanding Luther changed what Apocrypha means for Protestants to include the Pseudoepigrapha.

Also did not know Luther was an anti-semite. Though that explains a lot of what I been wondering in terms of all the anti-jewish stuff I see in protestantism lol.

Sigh Protestant/Catholic divide, how thou art a vexation of confusion.
Actually Luthers extreme antisemetism came from the roman church, He brought this aspect of catholisism with him.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Still haven't got around to reading Enoch yet lol. I have heard of Jubilees too but never read it nor do I know what it's about. I figured those were the Apocrypha and the books like Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, etc. were Pseudoepigrapha. Though from my understanding Luther changed what Apocrypha means for Protestants to include the Pseudoepigrapha.

Also did not know Luther was an anti-semite. Though that explains a lot of what I been wondering in terms of all the anti-jewish stuff I see in protestantism lol.

Sigh Protestant/Catholic divide, how thou art a vexation of confusion.
Actually my bad, I mean to say deuterocanonical, not pseudoepigrapha, you are correct on your point Tintin.
 
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Tintin

Guest
Still haven't got around to reading Enoch yet lol. I have heard of Jubilees too but never read it nor do I know what it's about. I figured those were the Apocrypha and the books like Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, etc. were Pseudoepigrapha. Though from my understanding Luther changed what Apocrypha means for Protestants to include the Pseudoepigrapha.

Also did not know Luther was an anti-semite. Though that explains a lot of what I been wondering in terms of all the anti-jewish stuff I see in protestantism lol.

Sigh Protestant/Catholic divide, how thou art a vexation of confusion.
It's not one of Luther's finer moments but he was getting extra peeved at them for not recognising their Messiah.
You might just find that the Lutheran Church of Australia has no such anti-Semitic beliefs.
 
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Tintin

Guest
Actually my bad, I mean to say deuterocanonical, not pseudoepigrapha, you are correct on your point Tintin.
I think we both got a bit muddled. My study Bible includes the usual canon, plus the Apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books. I was right about the Psuedoepigrapha, not so much about the Apocrypha. Thanks for your help.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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It's not one of Luther's finer moments but he was getting extra peeved at them for not recognising their Messiah.
You might just find that the Lutheran Church of Australia has no such anti-Semitic beliefs.
Heh don't think I think of you as anti-semitic brother Tintin, you're much too nice of a dude for me to believe that lol. Merely I had noted much anti-semitism mostly in protestanism and also catholicism as EG point out. My theory was much the same as yours that it is because they rejected their own Messiah. However, I think that's also a pretty hard-hearted view and I would sort of expect church leaderships to recognize not all the jews forsake Jesus. After all each and every writer of the Old and New Testament is a jew lol.

As for the study bible you have, very itneresting stuff. I will have to check out the Apocrypha someday, I was not aware they made Bibles containing such. Heh especially Book of Enoch due to so much talk about it I feel it deserves at least a glance over. I have seen some passages from it in conspiracy videos, but meh, not very convincing to me personally that it is actually written by Enoch, but again, those were only short passages that could've been misconstrued to fit whatever the videomakers try to portray.
 
May 3, 2013
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Mar 18, 2011
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You can't prove it was formulated from truth and fact.....its a faith based religion.....sorry
back to page one of this thread. How did a man born in 284AD distort documents from the first century that we didn't find until more than a millennia after his death?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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Originally Posted by laceylacey
You can't prove it was formulated from truth and fact.....its a faith based religion.....sorry

and the people put to death in the first century for the Jesus they saw, walked and talked with would argue they weren't living in a religious fantasy, these were the facts of their lives and the only thing separating the reality of their lives from this current worlds understanding is satans manipulations, amplified by 2 thousand years and 10 billion skeptics. (yes I included skeptics who have long died over the millennia and I'm sure I undershot the number.)