Contradiction of WORDS

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elf3

Guest
#21
Yeah and a point to be made is...By grace through faith and that NOT of YOURSELVES....the NOT of YOURSELVES is directed at the word FAITH, as it is the FAITH of Jesus that saves us and that faith is a spiritual GIFT from God!
Oh I don't know..that's kind of hard to understand. What does "gift" mean and what does the phrase "not of yourselves" mean. Oh wait it means "we have a gift from ourselves so we can have faith that we can work" LOL
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#22
Oh I don't know..that's kind of hard to understand. What does "gift" mean and what does the phrase "not of yourselves" mean. Oh wait it means "we have a gift from ourselves so we can have faith that we can work" LOL
Galatians 2:16 is what I have in mind as well as numerous other verses....rendered innocent by the faith OF Christ and it is the perfect faith OF Christ that saves us, justifies us etc. It is all about Jesus my friend and all glory goes to God the Father dia Jesus for sure. Grammatically speaking in Ephesians (that not of ourselves) is directed at the faith that is being spoken of....A more literal translation is...In the grace you are, having been saved OUT of faith<---and that NOT of YOURSELVES.....is directed at the faith that has saved us having been based upon unmerited favor (grace)!<----It is the GIFT of God and not of (our own) works lest any many should (have the ability) to boast. It is the WORK OF CHRIST........!
 
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elf3

Guest
#23
Yeah and a point to be made is...By grace through faith and that NOT of YOURSELVES....the NOT of YOURSELVES is directed at the word FAITH, as it is the FAITH of Jesus that saves us and that faith is a spiritual GIFT from God!
To me that's what is so hard to understand about the whole salvation of works thing. It's pretty hard to misinterpret "not of yourselves" or "by grace through faith". How do they actually get a salvation of works out of phrases like those?
 
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#24
To me that's what is so hard to understand about the whole salvation of works thing. It's pretty hard to misinterpret "not of yourselves" or "by grace through faith". How do they actually get a salvation of works out of phrases like those?
Being blind to the truth and deceived by false apostate preachers who have brain washed them!
 
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elf3

Guest
#25
Being blind to the truth and deceived by false apostate preachers who have brain washed them!
Good point! To me it's funny because even though I believe my pastor teaches the truth I still will go home and check and make sure his teaching lines up with Bible. Shoot even with my dad I'll check what he says against the Bible.

I guess that's the difference between the "blind" and those "who can see".

It's no longer a blind leading the blind...it's the blind leading the gulible.
 
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#26
Good point! To me it's funny because even though I believe my pastor teaches the truth I still will go home and check and make sure his teaching lines up with Bible. Shoot even with my dad I'll check what he says against the Bible.

I guess that's the difference between the "blind" and those "who can see".

It's no longer a blind leading the blind...it's the blind leading the gulible.
No doubt as there was a church in Acts that was considered more honorable because they searched the scriptures diligently to see if what Paul and company were teaching was true....We should put it all to the test and if it does not jive chunk it and seek conclusions that does jive with the word. I once heard a man say the spirit of God does not indwell the believer....I went home and the first verse I looked at was...If the SPIRIT of HIM that RAISED UP JESUS DWELL IN YOU....that was all I needed to see...Even though I already knew it HAHAH
 
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elf3

Guest
#27
Haha! its a shame many Christians don't do that
 
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elf3

Guest
#28
But then again there are many that are only Sunday and holiday Christians so it makes sense.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#29
Haha! its a shame many Christians don't do that
those of us who do -- it's our job to encourage our siblings who don't!

and perhaps their job to teach us to be gentle & patient as we all reach towards the glory He is working in us!
 
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#30
Haha! its a shame many Christians don't do that
I agree for sure......you know there are handful of things I was taught growing up in church that I do not agree with after studying the last 26-27 years...it would be wide for all to do this as you never know...you might have been taught a heretical view on something...not to say that a man of God is not sincere or purposely teaching heresy....just that at the end of the day we are all men/women and we are all fallible.....
 
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#31
those of us who do -- it's our job to encourage our siblings who don't!

and perhaps their job to teach us to be gentle & patient as we all reach towards the glory He is working in us!
I agree with this as well for sure........!
 
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#32
But then again there are many that are only Sunday and holiday Christians so it makes sense.

Yeah no doubt and what is tragic is the fact that those who do such things really think that they are doing God service for sure....tragic is a word that comes to mind! Oh wait....I already used the word tragic! HAH!
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#33
I have a question for all concerning the following quote from a Campbellite that uses this chat site...

WORKS DO NOT EARN GRACE

WORKS REQUIRED to receive GRACE


Is this a contradiction of WORDS and or a play on WORDS?
Where is this principle found in scriptures?

Grace means UNMERITED FAVOR
so how can it be possible to earn or receive GRACE BASED UPON WORKS seeing how the very word means unmerited favor<--unearned favor?
To work for something means you EARNED IT!
Matt 16:24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…Sounds like work to me....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#34
Matt 16:24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…Sounds like work to me....
Well if you choose to ignore ALL the scriptures that teach otherwise and HE is talking to his disciples which were already SAVED men of GOD, immersed (identified with) Jesus, called OUT by Jesus and being instructed in daily living and what it takes to have a spiritual life as opposed to a worldly life!
 
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TheClimaxWarrior

Guest
#35
Just my opinion, but I believe many of them are nothing but trolls, with a few cult members thrown in. You see a lot of copy and paste work with scripture, but no understanding, one track minds, i.e., a constant effort to bicker over one theme. Forget spirituality, a normal person gets bored after awhile, at least one who isn't suffering some narcissistic or sociopathic disorder that feeds on attention of any kind. Maybe Google traits of trolls? They love religious forums, fertile ground for inflaming people.
I know and it blows my mind that somebody will try and cram down my throat that I have to (WORK) to receive grace...Something that is unmerited is impossible to work for...period! It is a free GIFT from God and based upon the WORK that Christ did and was completed in the eyes of God from the casting down of the world...and when we say this based upon the BIBLE we automatically get accused (led of the devil) of saying that saved children of God need not keep the word of God...fires me up to no end for sure!
Sounz a lot like the Church of Christ. They are hellbent of works over grace and the traditions. They are so black 'n white but cannot see the gray. For instance: Show me in scripture that 'Salvation' is a free gift, it is not in the Bible. Oh my gosh...it's like turning a door knob to bathroom and it doesn't turn. Which has me scratching my head thinking...doesn't the name JESUS mean 'Lord of Salvation'. So JESUS died for us paying the price. We paid nothing to Him for His Father gave His only begotten Son. Which I'm pretty sure the word 'gave' means 'freely transfer a possession of something or someone'. Not matter I how put it they still wouldn't listen. Now I know why GOD calls the lost lost for they truly have completely LOST their minds.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#36
Sounz a lot like the Church of Christ. They are hellbent of works over grace and the traditions. They are so black 'n white but cannot see the gray. For instance: Show me in scripture that 'Salvation' is a free gift, it is not in the Bible. Oh my gosh...it's like turning a door knob to bathroom and it doesn't turn. Which has me scratching my head thinking...doesn't the name JESUS mean 'Lord of Salvation'. So JESUS died for us paying the price. We paid nothing to Him for His Father gave His only begotten Son. Which I'm pretty sure the word 'gave' means 'freely transfer a possession of something or someone'. Not matter I how put it they still wouldn't listen. Now I know why GOD calls the lost lost for they truly have completely LOST their minds.
Yeah...You got that right as it was a Campbellite that tried to cram this down my throat.....heresy I say, and again I say heresy.....!
 
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elf3

Guest
#37
Sounz a lot like the Church of Christ. They are hellbent of works over grace and the traditions. They are so black 'n white but cannot see the gray. For instance: Show me in scripture that 'Salvation' is a free gift, it is not in the Bible. Oh my gosh...it's like turning a door knob to bathroom and it doesn't turn. Which has me scratching my head thinking...doesn't the name JESUS mean 'Lord of Salvation'. So JESUS died for us paying the price. We paid nothing to Him for His Father gave His only begotten Son. Which I'm pretty sure the word 'gave' means 'freely transfer a possession of something or someone'. Not matter I how put it they still wouldn't listen. Now I know why GOD calls the lost lost for they truly have completely LOST their minds.
Huh you kinda nailed that one!
 
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elf3

Guest
#38
To inspire people to study and not just read the Bible is one reason I started that "study is fun" forum
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#39
I have a question for all concerning the following quote from a Campbellite that uses this chat site...

WORKS DO NOT EARN GRACE

WORKS REQUIRED to receive GRACE


Is this a contradiction of WORDS and or a play on WORDS?
Where is this principle found in scriptures?

Grace means UNMERITED FAVOR
so how can it be possible to earn or receive GRACE BASED UPON WORKS seeing how the very word means unmerited favor<--unearned favor?
To work for something means you EARNED IT!
It's double-think.
 
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TheClimaxWarrior

Guest
#40
To inspire people to study and not just read the Bible is one reason I started that "study is fun" forum
I must spend 3/4 of my entire reading, researching, studying, meditating, and it can be frustrating as I'm the only one of my Church that gets into the Bible. The head of the Church knows an untold but he has a life outside of Church with his business but my gut feeling is he's not interested in one on one mentoring. My mentor is back in Australia, and we would spend hours and hours together. Our greatest achievement is Samson. The material we've dug up on Samson was just brilliant, so much so I'm writing a script.

I've told I should study something else. I says, 'It's all I want to study is the Bible. For doing so will lead me to world issues, the heavens ( never was into astrology until I discovered Job 38 ), the deep sea, geographically, numbers, history a ton of things' they were like, 'Nah way!' I was like 'Yahweh'.

It is lots and lots and lots of fun. After much study this is what friends have told me, 'Your glowing and your smile is radiant'. l'm like well I get pregnant so it must be from Bible Study...hehehehe'.