Contradiction of WORDS

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#422
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#422
Elin said:
And now we're down to the real issue--unbelief.

You simply do not believe Jn 6:37, 61-65:

Jn 6:61-65: "On hearing it many of his disciples said, 'This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?'

(Sound familiar?)

. . .Jesus said to them, 'Does this offend you. . .that is why I told you that no one can come
to me unless the Father has enabled him.' "

Jn 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me."

Your problem of unbelief is with God, not with me.
Click to expand...

Jn 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

The one's that the Father gives refer to the saved, but they must conditionally come to Christ.

The issue is does the Father UNCONDITIONALLY give men to Christ? NO!!!

Verse 37 does not specifically mention "belief" as verses 35 and 36 but "belief" not being specifically mentioned in v37 does not mean belief is not required.

So the ones of their own freewill that CONDITIONALLY believe Christ, v35 are the saved ones who God gives to Christ. There is no Calvinistic random, unconditional selection of certain men in this text at all.


Now we will find out who really believes in this passage and who does not.



 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#423
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#423
Elin said:
Non-responsive.
Click to expand...
I did respond and one can read Ephesians. In Eph 1:1 Paul is referring to the group Christian calling them "saints" and "faithful in Christ Jesus" And in Eph 1:4,5 shows that God foreknew certain traits, characteristics of this groups, those foreknown traits being "in Him(Christ)" - "holy and without blame" - called "sons". The text here says nothing about God foreknowing certain individuals unconditionally but traits. Therefore it is the group that is sealed and not the individual sealed unconditionally.

The non-response was to my question: Where does the bible say one outside the group, that is, one NOT a Christian can be sealed?
 
E

Elin

Banned
#425
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#425
SeaBass said:
Jn 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

The one's that the Father gives refer to the saved, but
they must conditionally come to Christ.
Click to expand...
The condition for salvation--faith--is a work of God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), not man.

God provides to us what he requires of us.

To God be the glory!

The gospel is a closed book to you.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#426
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#426
Elin said:
According to your perverse hermeneutic, the bible has to explicitly state,
"I cannot put conditions on a free gift," in order to mean the gift is truly free.

In your perverse hermeneutic, "free" is not sufficient to mean truly free.

In your perverse hermeneutic, the self-evident has to be established,
the self-evident does not establish itself.
Click to expand...

In other words, if I give you a free car I am not allowed to put the condition of you coming to me to get the car?????

So me the gift giver is to bow to you, the undeserving receiver of my gift, and go along with your demands??
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#427
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#427
elf3 said:
It's amazing how you fail to comprehend the meaning of the word free. I even posted the Websters Dictionary meaning for you somewhere
Click to expand...

I do not see where Websters said a free gifts must always be unconditional.



Again, in Jn 6:27, one on hand Jesus said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. On the other hand Jesus says He GIVES everlasting life, it's free. Why would He say to labour for something He freely gives?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#428
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#428
Elin said:
Great example of your perverse hermeneutic. . .omitting all the gifts of God in salvation and making them a work of man.
Click to expand...

So God was wrong in attaching the work of dipping to Naaman's free gift of healing?
 
E

elf3

Guest
#429
#429
SeaBass said:
Jn 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

The one's that the Father gives refer to the saved, but they must conditionally come to Christ.

The issue is does the Father UNCONDITIONALLY give men to Christ? NO!!!

Verse 37 does not specifically mention "belief" as verses 35 and 36 but "belief" not being specifically mentioned in v37 does not mean belief is not required.

So the ones of their own freewill that CONDITIONALLY believe Christ, v35 are the saved ones who God gives to Christ. There is no Calvinistic random, unconditional selection of certain men in this text at all.


Now we will find out who really believes in this passage and who does not.
Click to expand...
In your John 6:37 example here it is God who does the action of giving and man recieving. Where in this verse is the condition?
 
E

Elin

Banned
#430
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#430
SeaBass said:
I did respond and one can read Ephesians. In Eph 1:1
Paul is referring to the group Christian calling them "saints" and "faithful in Christ Jesus"
Click to expand...
Paul is addressing individuals in Ephesus.

According to your own perverse hermeneutic, the text must state
the word "group" if Paul is addressing a group rather than individuals.

The gospel is a closed book to you.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#432
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#432
SeaBass said:
In other words, if I give you a free car I am not allowed to put the condition of you coming to me to get the car?????

So me the gift giver is to bow to you, the undeserving receiver of my gift, and go along with your demands??
Click to expand...
Previously addressed.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#434
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#434
Elin said:
Not all grace is salvation.

The condition for salvation--faith--is a work of God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), not man.

God provides to us what he requires of us.

To God be the glory!
Click to expand...

Sigh.......................

In Rom 6:16 Paul said "obedience unto salvation" So you tried to REDEFINE the word "righteousness" to get around the force of Paul's words.

In Tts 2:11 it says "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"

Now are you trying to redefine "grace" in Tts 2:11 that the grace that BRINGS SALVATION is not really about salvation?????
 
E

Elin

Banned
#435
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#435
SeaBass said:
Elin said:
john832 said:
Grace without conditions is universal salvation.
Click to expand...
Not all grace is salvation.

The condition for salvation--faith--is a work of God(Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), not man.

God provides to us what he requires of us.

To God be the glory!
Click to expand...
Sigh.......................

In Rom 6:16 Paul said "obedience unto salvation" So you tried to REDEFINE the word "righteousness" to get around the force of Paul's words.

In Tts 2:11 it says "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"

Now are you trying to redefine "grace" in Tts 2:11 that the grace that BRINGS SALVATION is not really about salvation?????
Click to expand...
Non-responsive.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#436
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#436
elf3 said:
Wait what? when did I ever say Jesus doesn't give everlasting life? Man you twist things up so much I am surprised you aren't dizzy.
Click to expand...
Jn 6:27;
What I asked it a contradiction for Christ to say on one hand to "LABOUR" for the meat that endures unto everlasting life but then says He "GIVES" it for free?
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#437
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#437
Elin said:
Non-responsive.
Click to expand...
SeaBass said:
Sigh.......................

In Rom 6:16 Paul said "obedience unto salvation" So you tried to REDEFINE the word "righteousness" to get around the force of Paul's words.

In Tts 2:11 it says "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"

Now are you trying to redefine "grace" in Tts 2:11 that the grace that BRINGS SALVATION is not really about salvation?????
Click to expand...
You are a slow learner, SeaBass.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#439
Jan 18, 2011
12,268
6,639
113
#439
I gave the example of the thief on the Cross to seabass yesterday. he blew it off. so yea, slow to learn.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#440
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#440
gb9 said:
I gave the example of the thief on the Cross to seabass yesterday. he blew it off. so yea, slow to learn.
Click to expand...
Thief on the cross is dead and awaiting a resurrection. Comma was inserted by translators in the wrong place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.