Daniels 4 beasts

[zone]

How can it be rome and ceasar? Ceasar is one king. he would be the legs of Iron, not the ten toed, or ten horned kingdom.

10 Caesars ruled the empire during the lifetime of Jesus.

Caesar Augustus
Caesar Tiberius
Caesar Caligula
Caesar Claudius
Caesar Nero
Caesar Galba
Caesar Otho
Caesar Vitellius
Caesar Vespesian
"Prince Titus"...who later became Caesar Titus

7 Herods reigned in Israel with the Caesars.

Herod Antipater
Herod the Great
Herod Archelaus
Herod Antipas
Herod Philip
Herod Aristobulous
Herod Agrippa I

THE TEN TOES ARE IRON (ROMANS) AND CLAY (HERODS)

Daniel 2:35
Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth



Daniel 2:44
New International Version (©1984)
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever



Matthew 12
28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you

 

[Laodicea]

In 476 the Roman empire was divided into 10 parts.
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

 

[zone]

Daniel 2:35
Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth

this prophecy came true for faithful Israel who saw her King come riding on a colt.
faithful Israel, who became the early church never had another king of any kind they needed to look for, never another who would truly rule over them as punishment or judgment again.
we still have world gov'ts...for now....but only ONE KING.

Jesus was and is the King, out of the Root of Jesse, Who restored the throne of David (Solomon's line was a dead-end...Jesus came through David's son Nathan).

and Daniel 2:35 is true for everyone who knows Jesus is KING....jew or gentile.
there is no jew or gentile in Christ Our King.
there is One King, One Kingdom, one people, one church, one faith.

 

[zone]

Yes but Jesus comes back at the end of the image “the stone” in Daniel 2 were the ten toes are.
Jesus didn’t come back in 476 AD the ten kings must be at the end, like the ten toes at the end.

peter where does it say comes back?
He came already...that's what the Stone and the ten toes was.
it doesn't say anywhere that prophecy is about the Second Advent ("coming back")

why is everyone looking for an earthly kingdom on this old earth?
Jesus said there wasn't one

 

[zone]

How in earth do Christians get the stone in the image as being the birth of Jesus is beyond me.

Luke 17:21
English Standard Version (©2001)
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
no one will say, 'Look here!' or 'There!' For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

International Standard Version (©2012)
People won't be saying, 'Look! Here it is!' or 'There it is!' because now the kingdom of God is among you."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, the premise (mine, the Bible's) is that this is a MODEL! Psalms 83 lays out the kingdoms for us, the fact that the particulars of the kingdoms, like tares and mustard seeds can grow all over the world simply means the model is futuristic as well as historical -- the premise of PROPHETIC REVELATION.

Thats interesting. for many reasons.

1. Non of them were in power or even existed after babylon overthrough them. so they were definately not in power when Rome took over.
2. ps 83 does not mention babylon, or media perisa, or greece or rome.

so how could this be a prophesy of some ten kingdom reformation or a roman empire when they were already destroyed LONG before rome 1 even came to power?

Rome was the power at the time of Jesus, Rome is [A] Power now, albeit it now more and more fragmented, perhaps all the more dangerous -- Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Islamic, United Nations and other sects of and under the control of ... ROME. It does not matter who is the head of Rome, tho Caesar did claim to be the son of God, and the papacy (no need to name a particular pope) claims to be the Vicar of the Son(s) of God, God's representative here on earth. Rome then IS this 'little horn'! Rome is the fourth kingdom, the legs of iron! Has been, IS, will be (for a time, til all be fulfilled).

Again an interesting thought. and I might give credance to it but it leaves to many questions. For one, scripture states each of these ten kings are given power over their perspective kingdoms. You just mentioned two here. what about the other 8. And the pope does not have power over any kingdom. so how could he be a king? also, yes ceasar declared himself to be God. but so did ever leader of every kingdom from egypt until rome. thus this would be nothing new. Ceasar did not commit the abomination of desolation or any of the other things the we are told the little horn would do. And finally. the little horn is a man (he is given eyes and a mouth ans speaks against God) not entities. Daniel even told Nebuchadnezzar that HE was Babylon (even though the head of God represented a kingdom. HE was that kingdom, it was a man not the whole kingdom itself)

Don't play games (with yourself) and fall into 'Caesar is dead, blah, blah, blah ... Rome became a church-state religion for the very purpose of continuing its domination and control of the earth. Presidents and kings bow to the pope to this day, kissing his ring as they commit fornication with the whore and the woman who rides the beast ...

Yep, this is why I believe the pope is babylon, who will give power to the little horn for a time, but when the little horn takes power. he will destroy the pope (babylon) and everything in her, the world (which loves the whore) will mourn when the little horn destroys babylon. thus babylon can not be the little horn. why would he destroy himself.

We still deal with these same kingdoms just as John the Revelator tells us it was and is, and shall be.

The reason we look at this is to affirm that REVELATION IS A MODEL, that all was fulfilled, that there is no gap theory and that Revelation affirms the history, and foretells the future -- AS A MODEL, with JESUS the ONLY WAY. The initial maps, the intermediate maps, the current and future maps of these 'ten kingdoms' are simply reflections of Rome's control all over the world and that of the ten kingdoms mentioned in Psalms 83, those persons, those practices now infecting the whole world.

Again, I can not see this, it makes no sense!.

Those kingdoms were completely destroyed by Babylon, and any of them which were even partly in existance after this were completely gone by the time rome came to power. Thus they can not be the ten kingdoms. because they were already wiped off the face of the earth.

Not to mention. we are told the little horn will have power over every nation tongue and tribe. Not happened. he will be bale to control ALl the worlds finances. never happened. And he will have power that could kill ALL FLESH on earth. not happened. Not even possible until the last century, I can not ignore these facts. then come to some belief that this has all been fulfilled. when it is impossible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG...it was Jesus who confirmed the Covenant.

No Zone, it was not. jesus confirmed a covenant for eternity not 7 years. jesus did not break this covenant by committing the abomination. And jesus is not the one who destroyed jerusalem and the temple (by his own hand)

Daniel 9

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

notice something, you only highlighted one part. lets see who "he" is.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

notice.

he will confirm a covenant
he will cause sacrifice to cease (did not happen till 70 AD)
He will commit the abomination of desolation.

jesus in matt 24 makes it clear. he does not commit the abomination. (followed by great tribulation, which will only be stopped by the return of Christ, whihc returns for the elect because if he did not return. NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE)

yes, I agree, jesus did stop the REASON sacrifice were given, by his own death. but remember, SACRIFICE never took away sin. so he did not stop the reason it was given, it was never intended to save anyone, He fullfilled what it represented thats all. The "HE" in Daniel 9 stops it by making it impossible to do. by defiling the inner sanctum and making it unclean. and not allowing them to re-enter it to do sacrifice.

Matthew 26:28

for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Testament (διαθήκη&#962

From διατίθημι, to distribute; dispose of. Hence of the disposition of one's property. On the idea of disposing or arranging is based that of settlement or agreement, and thence of a covenant. The Hebrew word of which this is a translation is primarily covenant, from a verb meaning to cut. Hence the phrase, to make a covenant, in connection with dividing the victims slain in ratification of covenants (Genesis 15:9-18). Covenant is the general Old Testament sense of the word (1 Kings 20:34; Isaiah 28:15; 1 Samuel 18:3); and so in the New Testament. Compare Mark 14:24; Luke 1:72; Luke 22:20; Acts 3:25; Acts 7:8. Bishop Lightfoot, on Galatians 3:15, observes that the word is never found in the New Testament in any other sense than that of covenant, with the exception of Hebrews 9:15-17, where it is testament. We cannot admit this exception, since we regard that passage as one of the best illustrations of the sense of covenant. See on Hebrews 9:15-17. Render here as Rev., covenant.

Is shed (ἐκχυννόμενο&#957

The present participle, is being shed. Christ's thought goes forward to the consummation.
vincent's

your taking it back to a salvation issue. this is not a salvation issue. Never has been. Sorry sis, but I can not agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

10 Caesars ruled the empire during the lifetime of Jesus.

Caesar Augustus
Caesar Tiberius
Caesar Caligula
Caesar Claudius
Caesar Nero
Caesar Galba
Caesar Otho
Caesar Vitellius
Caesar Vespesian
"Prince Titus"...who later became Caesar Titus

7 Herods reigned in Israel with the Caesars.

Herod Antipater
Herod the Great
Herod Archelaus
Herod Antipas
Herod Philip
Herod Aristobulous
Herod Agrippa I

THE TEN TOES ARE IRON (ROMANS) AND CLAY (HERODS)

One problem. These kings rule together. not apart. there were not ten rulers who had ten kingdoms in what your saying.

Again, it is a nice thought. but not according to what daniel said. and what john said in revelations concerning these ten kings.

Daniel 2:35

Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth



Daniel 2:44
New International Version (©1984)
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever

And in that kingdom. ALL nations whill worhsip the lord (not happened yet)
those kingdoms were not in power at the SAME TIME
Those kingdoms were not broke in pieces. The gentiles still rule the world. they are still in power in some form.

Matthew 12

28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you

yes, the spiritual kingdom is upon us. I praise the day when the physical one comes. Jesus did not deny there would be a physical one. he just said it is not for us to know the hour. In fact scripture says we do not even know the hour, he did not even know it. Only God in heaven knows it. Jesus knew when he would be crucified. So it could not be that event. or he lied.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In 476 the Roman empire was divided into 10 parts.
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

that might be true. But the little horn did not take those three kingdoms out of power. And he is not in power today. Thus it could not be those ten kingdom. Although it might be some future thing, when th elittle horn then DOES come and destroys three of them.

 

[zone]

And in that kingdom. ALL nations whill worhsip the lord (not happened yet)

hi bud.
unless we are Universalists, all nations doesn't mean every person on earth.

every knee will bow, for sure.
of course they will...even those who are taken away on Judgment Day.

here's Acts 2:5 talking about the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:5
Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation

Those kingdoms were not broke in pieces. The gentiles still rule the world. they are still in power in some form.

but EG, the stuff in Daniel was virtually all about Daniel's people (God's Plan to save gentiles was never in question, it was always His Plan).

those kingdoms that the israelites were always subject to; taken into captivity by; ruled over by....WERE smashed.
by Jesus (for those who received Him). not for those who didn't.

He is Still King...whether anyone bows to Him or not. but the faithful (Daniel also) have throughout time submitted to captivities and various governing powers, but have refused to WORSHIP any King but the LORD.

the israelites wanted earthly kings...so they got them. it didn't work out very well in the long run.

but finally God came as their (and our King), just as He said He was from heaven and would be coming in the flesh. dwelling among men. He did.

~

even in a Millennial eschatology, you STILL have rebellion and kings of the earth going to fight the Lord and His people! so i don't get why it's so hard to see it NOW. its easier to see it now in fact, because who would actually see the Glorified Christ and dare to fight against Him in person?

nobody. all the world would know Who He was and every knee would bow (which they will).

yes, the spiritual kingdom is upon us. I praise the day when the physical one comes. Jesus did not deny there would be a physical one.

Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

5And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem
9Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia.d Its length and width and height are equal. 17He also measured its wall, 144 cubitse by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. 18The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, clear as glass. 19The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

22And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

??

love zone

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi bud.
unless we are Universalists, all nations doesn't mean every person on earth.

I never said it did. i said all nations. not all people. it means all nations will freely worship god. with no hinderance. this is not possible even today, in many nations, just claiming to worship Christ would get you the death penalty.

every knee will bow, for sure.
of course they will...even those who are taken away on Judgment Day.

here's Acts 2:5 talking about the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:5
Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation

ok. In one verse, you have only jews 9from every nation) and in another you have God paying the price for every tribe and language people and nation. but in niether does it say ever nation comes to worship God.

Scripture says all nations will worship him. this is not what either of those verses say.

but EG, the stuff in Daniel was virtually all about Daniel's people (God's Plan to save gentiles was never in question, it was always His Plan).

exactly. Which is why his people must be on the scene again for the things to be fulfilled. Which is why we do not see the gap. because it does not concern the times in which his people were off the scene (after 70 AD) and do not appear again until his people are back on the scene (in the time of the little horn)

those kingdoms that the israelites were always subject to; taken into captivity by; ruled over by....WERE smashed. by Jesus (for those who received Him). not for those who didn't.

I do not understand what your trying to say here. Smashed by Jesus? who? Isreal or the gentile kingdoms?

He is Still King...whether anyone bows to Him or not. but the faithful (Daniel also) have throughout time submitted to captivities and various governing powers, but have refused to WORSHIP any King but the LORD.

yet the OT prophesies state quite clearly. every nation will bow. not just the faithful, the nations themselves. and the people in them.

the israelites wanted earthly kings...so they got them. it didn't work out very well in the long run.

No it did not. any more than it is today

but finally God came as their (and our King), just as He said He was from heaven and would be coming in the flesh. dwelling among men. He did.

yep. He did, but he had to pay for salvation first. His earthly kingdom would be useless if the people he ruled over could not be saved.

~

even in a Millennial eschatology, you STILL have rebellion and kings of the earth going to fight the Lord and His people! so i don't get why it's so hard to see it NOW. its easier to see it now in fact, because who would actually see the Glorified Christ and dare to fight against Him in person?

Actually, those battles would not be until the end of the 100 years when satan is again loosed. and he gathers an army. Not before. so I am not sure what your trying to get at. the mellinial kingdom does not teach there are many wars, quite the contrary, it speaks of peace. God shows the world and the heavens how it was supposed to be on earth. This is a great thing is it not?

nobody. all the world would know Who He was and every knee would bow (which they will).

yep, even those who did not see him and died. But that is not what the OT prophesies say, it says those alive will serve and worship him. How can they all go to jerusalem if he is not there?

Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

5And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem
9Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia.d Its length and width and height are equal. 17He also measured its wall, 144 cubitse by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. 18The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, clear as glass. 19The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

22And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

??

love zone

well thats eternity/ We are not talking about eternity or salvation. we are talking about king messiah. who will rule with an iron rod, and all the nations of the earth will worship him.

there can be no sin in eternity. thus messiah does not have to rule with an iron rod. everyone will obey him automatically.

 

[peterT]

peter where does it say comes back?
He came already...that's what the Stone and the ten toes was.
it doesn't say anywhere that prophecy is about the Second Advent ("coming back")

why is everyone looking for an earthly kingdom on this old earth?
Jesus said there wasn't one

Let me change that to COME.

The stone comes at the end of the image, thus that is Jesus coming back.

For he the stone/jesus comes to the feet and toes after the clay NOT before the clay, and the clay being us Christians the church

So that is Jesus coming back at the end of the image

 

[zone]

the clay being us Christians the church

where does it say that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me change that to COME.

The stone comes at the end of the image, thus that is Jesus coming back.

For he the stone/jesus comes to the feet and toes after the clay NOT before the clay, and the clay being us Christians the church

So that is Jesus coming back at the end of the image

that does not make sense. The stone (jesus) crushes the feet of iron and clay mixed, totally destroying them. so are you saying Jesus is going to destroy the church?

 

[peterT]

where does it say that?

Isaiah 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Job 13:12 Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding.

NOW Zone just a few verses about the CLAY.
If you are going to challenge this Zone, make sure the verses you use have the word CLAY in them.

 

[peterT]

that does not make sense. The stone (jesus) crushes the feet of iron and clay mixed, totally destroying them. so are you saying Jesus is going to destroy the church?

No
but put that age to finish destroy that age and all the ones before it

 

[zone]

No
but put that age to finish destroy that age and all the ones before it

exactly Peter

He put an end to the Temple System, the Old Covenant Age, the Judaic Age (including all the Judaic overlords in the image in Daniel)..... and anything but Christ Crucified, Risen and Ascended.
Christ The King. over all in Him - jew and gentile.

that happened at the First Advent Peter.
you just said it, but didn't quite see it.

see it now?

(there IS another fulfillment to come...it includes Rome and Jerusalem teamed up again)

 

[peterT]

exactly Peter

He put an end to the Temple System, the Old Covenant Age, the Judaic Age (including all the Judaic overlords in the image in Daniel)..... and anything but Christ Crucified, Risen and Ascended.
Christ The King. over all in Him - jew and gentile.

that happened at the First Advent Peter.
you just said it, but didn't quite see it.

see it now?

(there IS another fulfillment to come...it includes Rome and Jerusalem teamed up again)

Nice one Zone but NOTHING about the CLAY not being us

 

[zone]

Nice one Zone but NOTHING about the CLAY not being us

peter.
please show where the clay in the toes is us.
why would He smash YOU?

if you're going to use the Potter, remember He has vessels of honor and dishonor.

go for it.

 

[zone]

Nice one Zone but NOTHING about the CLAY not being us

Isaiah 8:14
and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.

Isaiah 8:15
Many of them will stumble; they will fall and be broken, they will be snared and captured."

Isaiah 28:13
So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there--so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.

Matthew 21:43
"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Matthew 21:45
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Luke 2:34
Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against,

Luke 20:18
Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

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