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E
That is the issue., ALL Isreal WILL be saved, God said it in the OT, and paul repeated it in the new testament. Just because you refuse to take what they said literally does not mean it is not so.
every person who is a natural born child of Abraham Issac and jacob alive at the time the gentile dominion of daniel is destroyed by the rock who crushes the feet of the statue, will repent, turn to God and be saved. This is what scripture says.
I have seen Athiests come to Christ. I have seen people who were extreme muslim come to Christ. and also people who follow the talmudic whatever you want to call it come to Christ. Why would I want to believe that no one can come to Christ, based on whatever religion they follow now? I would be a fool.
God uses the time of Jacobs trouble to turn Isreal back to him, because they are persecuted more severely than even what the romans did to them in AD 70. only this time, they (the woman) are protected by God. They see his protection. and God uses this to turn ALL OF THEM TO HIM.
I wished like mad that the whole earth would come to him. I mean the kings of the earth try to hide under rocks because Gods wrath is so severe. but even this does not change them. or cause them to repent.
E
if we follow roman history and tradition, he would have been jewish, one who would not go against ceasar. He would not stick a traditional phariseic jew in charge, he would have done what babylon did with the king they put in charge when they overthrough the city and destroyed the temple. Remember that king? he was so evil he was killed for his sin.. Herod was no different than him. And he was killed for it. just like jeraboem ( I think that is who it was) was
They all had a habit of putting puppet kings in place from the people they over through.
They all had a habit of putting puppet kings in place from the people they over through.
but EG, bud.
you're speculating.
i posted just a tiny fraction of historical writings, from Judaic sources which say the Herods were Edomites.
from Blue Letter Bible.
1. The Family Descent:
The Herodians were not of Jewish stock. Herod the Great encouraged the circulation of the legend of the family descent from an illustrious Babylonian Jew (Ant., XIV, i, 3), but it has no historic basis. It is true the Idumeans were at that time nominal Jews, since they were subdued by John Hyrcanus in 125 BC, and embodied in the Asmonean kingdom through an enforced circumcision, but the old national antagonism remained (Ge 27:41). The Herodian family sprang from Antipas (died 78 BC), who was appointed governor of Idumaea by Alexander Janneus.
Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries < click
Edom (pron.: /ˈiː.dʌm/;[1] Hebrew: אֱדוֹם, Modern Edom Tiberian ʼĔḏôm ; "red"; Assyrian: Udumi; Syriac: ܐܕܘܡ
or Idumea (Greek: Ἰδουμαία, Idoumaía; Latin: Idūmaea) is a Semitic inhabited historical region of the Southern Levant located south of Judea and the Dead Sea. It is mentioned in biblical records as a 1st millennium BC Iron Age kingdom of Edom,[2] and in classical antiquity the cognate name Idumea was used to refer to a smaller area in the same region. The name Edom means "red" in Hebrew, and was given to Esau, the eldest son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, once he ate the "red pottage", which the Bible used in irony at the fact he was born "red all over".[3] The Torah, Tanakh and New Testament thus describe the Edomites as descendants of Esau.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom < click
you're speculating.
i posted just a tiny fraction of historical writings, from Judaic sources which say the Herods were Edomites.
from Blue Letter Bible.
1. The Family Descent:
The Herodians were not of Jewish stock. Herod the Great encouraged the circulation of the legend of the family descent from an illustrious Babylonian Jew (Ant., XIV, i, 3), but it has no historic basis. It is true the Idumeans were at that time nominal Jews, since they were subdued by John Hyrcanus in 125 BC, and embodied in the Asmonean kingdom through an enforced circumcision, but the old national antagonism remained (Ge 27:41). The Herodian family sprang from Antipas (died 78 BC), who was appointed governor of Idumaea by Alexander Janneus.
Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries < click
Edom (pron.: /ˈiː.dʌm/;[1] Hebrew: אֱדוֹם, Modern Edom Tiberian ʼĔḏôm ; "red"; Assyrian: Udumi; Syriac: ܐܕܘܡ
or Idumea (Greek: Ἰδουμαία, Idoumaía; Latin: Idūmaea) is a Semitic inhabited historical region of the Southern Levant located south of Judea and the Dead Sea. It is mentioned in biblical records as a 1st millennium BC Iron Age kingdom of Edom,[2] and in classical antiquity the cognate name Idumea was used to refer to a smaller area in the same region. The name Edom means "red" in Hebrew, and was given to Esau, the eldest son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, once he ate the "red pottage", which the Bible used in irony at the fact he was born "red all over".[3] The Torah, Tanakh and New Testament thus describe the Edomites as descendants of Esau.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom < click
P
Who said it was a two headed kingdom?
You must be joking saying I am not using scripture, look back and see how many scriptures I have used. It’s you that is not using scripture; you have shown nothing saying we are not the CLAY when the Bible says “we are the CLAY”
You are making it up. There is nothing in Rv19 saying the kingdom is A kingdom divided or a kingdom partly strong, and partly broken, and there is nothing about the CLAY in Rv19,
You take the sharpness of the sword off when you remove the clay being the church/Christians when fighting the battle to them that think its Jesus’s birth the stone.
Matt13:8But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
E
but EG, bud.
you're speculating.
i posted just a tiny fraction of historical writings, from Judaic sources which say the Herods were Edomites.
from Blue Letter Bible.
1. The Family Descent:
The Herodians were not of Jewish stock. Herod the Great encouraged the circulation of the legend of the family descent from an illustrious Babylonian Jew (Ant., XIV, i, 3), but it has no historic basis. It is true the Idumeans were at that time nominal Jews, since they were subdued by John Hyrcanus in 125 BC, and embodied in the Asmonean kingdom through an enforced circumcision, but the old national antagonism remained (Ge 27:41). The Herodian family sprang from Antipas (died 78 BC), who was appointed governor of Idumaea by Alexander Janneus.
Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries < click
Edom (pron.: /ˈiː.dʌm/;[1] Hebrew: אֱדוֹם, Modern Edom Tiberian ʼĔḏôm ; "red"; Assyrian: Udumi; Syriac: ܐܕܘܡ or Idumea (Greek: Ἰδουμαία, Idoumaía; Latin: Idūmaea) is a Semitic inhabited historical region of the Southern Levant located south of Judea and the Dead Sea. It is mentioned in biblical records as a 1st millennium BC Iron Age kingdom of Edom,[2] and in classical antiquity the cognate name Idumea was used to refer to a smaller area in the same region. The name Edom means "red" in Hebrew, and was given to Esau, the eldest son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, once he ate the "red pottage", which the Bible used in irony at the fact he was born "red all over".[3] The Torah, Tanakh and New Testament thus describe the Edomites as descendants of Esau.
Edom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
you're speculating.
i posted just a tiny fraction of historical writings, from Judaic sources which say the Herods were Edomites.
from Blue Letter Bible.
1. The Family Descent:
The Herodians were not of Jewish stock. Herod the Great encouraged the circulation of the legend of the family descent from an illustrious Babylonian Jew (Ant., XIV, i, 3), but it has no historic basis. It is true the Idumeans were at that time nominal Jews, since they were subdued by John Hyrcanus in 125 BC, and embodied in the Asmonean kingdom through an enforced circumcision, but the old national antagonism remained (Ge 27:41). The Herodian family sprang from Antipas (died 78 BC), who was appointed governor of Idumaea by Alexander Janneus.
Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries < click
Edom (pron.: /ˈiː.dʌm/;[1] Hebrew: אֱדוֹם, Modern Edom Tiberian ʼĔḏôm ; "red"; Assyrian: Udumi; Syriac: ܐܕܘܡ
or Idumea (Greek: Ἰδουμαία, Idoumaía; Latin: Idūmaea) is a Semitic inhabited historical region of the Southern Levant located south of Judea and the Dead Sea. It is mentioned in biblical records as a 1st millennium BC Iron Age kingdom of Edom,[2] and in classical antiquity the cognate name Idumea was used to refer to a smaller area in the same region. The name Edom means "red" in Hebrew, and was given to Esau, the eldest son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, once he ate the "red pottage", which the Bible used in irony at the fact he was born "red all over".[3] The Torah, Tanakh and New Testament thus describe the Edomites as descendants of Esau.Edom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
E
don;t try to twist it. If we are one kingdom, and the iron is the second kingdom which makes one kingdom. than your talking about two.
no your twisting scripture. and trying to use two different passages which have absolutely nothing to do with each other. to try to prove your point. you have not proven we are the clay of daniel 2.
the clay your talking about is God molding a nation. The clay in daniel 2 is God allowing a kingdom to come to power. Two completely different things.
Yet the kingdom God destroys in romans 19 is the SAME kingdom spoken of in rev 13, 17 - 19 you just want to ignore it. Thats fine, if you feel good about ignoring things, thats up to you..again I will prove it.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
ten kings. out of them come another king, which daniel called the little horn..
The iron and clay represents these ten kings,
any questions?
You misinterpret scripture when it is quite clear the stone (Christ) Crushes the toes of iron and clay. which means, if the clay is us, Christ CRUSHES US.. What kind of Hope do I have if Christ is going to crush me? I have no hope at all.
Remember the legs start out as one unit at the hips,they split into two. If it is linear it goes from one ruler to two then it ends with ten coming out of the two (The Roman Empire did split into two halves the Western and the Eastern) The ten toes come from both sides. All of the Kingdoms listed there are from the Western side. If the ten toes are to come from both legs where are the kingdoms from the Eastern side?
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P
A kingdom divided a kingdom partly strong, and partly broken is the one kingdom no twisting words there bro.
Rv19 says nothing about a kingdom partly strong, and partly broken or about the clay and that is what we are talking about and that’s what we are discussing, not that it’s not the same kingdom.
You are trying to show me eternally-gratefull we are not the clay. Rv19 is not going to help you in this discussion as it says nothing about the clay.
My bible says “we are the clay”
Isaiah 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
Job 13:12 Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.
Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding
A perfectly lawful interpretation “WE ARE THE CLAY”
Don’t be afraid, he is not going to crush us, he is going to crush what is, a kingdom divided, a kingdom partly strong, and partly broken. And we will not be mingled with them anymore.
43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
My bible says “we are the clay” but your interpretation is not going to help them the say or think that the stone is Jesus’s birth now is it?.
Why would you want to have a blunt sword when you can have a sharp sword?
Stop trying to twist my words eternally-gratefull it’s not going to help.
P
I can acutely see your point, eternally-gratefull and a valid point it is
If we both could put off the sharp tongue I am willing to thrash this out with you.
I not trying to twist anything, and I am sure you’re not trying to twist my words on purpose.
Let me know if you want to thrash this out, without the sharp tongues
E
yet according to prophesy. there will be a time when one will not fail (the beast out of the ocean) and will unite Europe and make them one kingdom. although still splintered kingdom or clay) and will gain worldwide power over finances, and land and every tribe language and nation will fall under their control.
L
History has proved that Europe will not be united, many tried:-
Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis XIV, Napoleon, Kaiser, and Hitler. All failed because the prophecy says that Europe will never be united. They have tried the Euro which is not doing to well. The future will be no different, according to the prophecy Europe will never be united.
Daniel 2:41 KJV
(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
There is nothing in the prophecy that shows it will ever be united, it will be divided until Christ returns.
Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis XIV, Napoleon, Kaiser, and Hitler. All failed because the prophecy says that Europe will never be united. They have tried the Euro which is not doing to well. The future will be no different, according to the prophecy Europe will never be united.
Daniel 2:41 KJV
(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
There is nothing in the prophecy that shows it will ever be united, it will be divided until Christ returns.
E
you need to read daniel 7, and also rev 13 - 18. You will see under the power of the one who comes from among them and brings them together again as one kingdom. will unify them.. although they will still be divided in a sense,, which is why in the end it will crumble. before it is destroyed by Christ himself at his return.