Daniels 4 beasts

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peterT

Guest
#41
peter.
please show where the clay in the toes is us.
why would He smash YOU?

if you're going to use the Potter, remember He has vessels of honor and dishonor.

go for it.

He didn’t come to destroy us he came to fulfil

Answer this Zone did the stone/Jesus come before the feet and toes in the image, or did the stone/jesus come after feet and toes and clay?

And I have shown from the scripture “we are the clay”

So why are you asking again?
Isaiah 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Job 13:12 Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding
 
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peterT

Guest
#42
Isaiah 8:14
and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.

Isaiah 8:15
Many of them will stumble; they will fall and be broken, they will be snared and captured."

Isaiah 28:13
So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there--so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.

Matthew 21:43
"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Matthew 21:45
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Luke 2:34
Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against,

Luke 20:18
Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

??
I don’t know why you are quoting those scriptures, nothing to do with the clay in the feet, not even word clay in those scriptures
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
No
but put that age to finish destroy that age and all the ones before it

destroy ages? it is not ages he is destroying, it is gentile kingdoms. The passage literally says the rock destroys the toes of iron and clay. So are you saying he destroys the church. you can;t have it both ways.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
Isaiah 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Job 13:12 Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding.

NOW Zone just a few verses about the CLAY.
If you are going to challenge this Zone, make sure the verses you use have the word CLAY in them.
This is not the same clay as in daniels prophesy, Are you kidding? the clay and iron is mixed. We are told what it means to be mixed.

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.

Since it is divided, it is not united completely. thus will not be as strong as the legs which were iron with one king.

You can;t use things like this to prove your point when they are not talking of the same thing.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
He didn’t come to destroy us he came to fulfil

Answer this Zone did the stone/Jesus come before the feet and toes in the image, or did the stone/jesus come after feet and toes and clay?

And I have shown from the scripture “we are the clay”

So why are you asking again?
Isaiah 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Job 13:12 Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding
we can;t be the clay, we are not part of the roman empire and rulers of this empire. the ten kingd are ten rulers. Not anything else. And CHRiST DESTROYS THEM putting an end to gentile dominion, and finishing up the age of the gentile
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#46
Answer this Zone did the stone/Jesus come before the feet and toes in the image, or did the stone/jesus come after feet and toes and clay?
okay.
this is mind-numbing that it's not just read in context, for what it actually says.

Daniel 2, written c. 604 BC

right?

Daniel and the israelites are in Babylon. captivity.
God has said He will bring them back to the Land, the Temple will be restored, the Messiah will come.
their captivies will be over. He will bring all that to an end.
He will make a full end of all their trangressions against Him, bring in everlasting Righteousness, etc. (Daniel 9)

peter, if the Stone didnt come, if Daniel 9 isnt fulfilled, you are still dead in your sins.

Daniel c. 604 BC.

did they return to Jerusalem? yes.

did Jesus come? yes.

did He finish the work He needed to do to fulfill everything written about Him in Moses and the prophets? yes.

did many believe on Him? yes.

were there those who did not? yes.

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream

31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

okay..

so the four kingdoms are done.

and there was a FINAL KINGDOM...which God set up.
will Christs Kingdom EVER be destroyed, peter.
is it eternal.

was Jesus the Stone....

But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

is His church filling the whole earth....(not every man on earth - the wheat and tares grow together.)

Matthew 13
The Mustard Seed and the Leaven
31He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. 32It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”

33He told them another parable. “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened.”

The Parable of the Weeds

24He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsc among the wheat and went away. 26So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27And the servantsd of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

like....its not that hard peter.
 
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peterT

Guest
#47
we can;t be the clay, we are not part of the roman empire and rulers of this empire. the ten kingd are ten rulers. Not anything else. And CHRiST DESTROYS THEM putting an end to gentile dominion, and finishing up the age of the gentile
So if we are NOT the clay who is it? LOL
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#48
I don’t know why you are quoting those scriptures, nothing to do with the clay in the feet, not even word clay in those scriptures
oh wow.
it is about The STONE.
what does THE STONE do when it falls on someone.
grinds them to powder.
 
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peterT

Guest
#50
oh wow.
it is about The STONE.
what does THE STONE do when it falls on someone.
grinds them to powder.
No, it’s about the stone hitting the feet at the end of the image and destroying history, for the rest of the image is just history
 
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peterT

Guest
#51
This is not the same clay as in daniels prophesy, Are you kidding? the clay and iron is mixed. We are told what it means to be mixed.

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.

Since it is divided, it is not united completely. thus will not be as strong as the legs which were iron with one king.

You can;t use things like this to prove your point when they are not talking of the same thing.
Do you have any scripture about the clay? or is that just your opinion
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#53
it does not say immediately. we know the other ones are immediate because each preceding empire takes over the previous. we are not told this about the last two. thus to say it is immediate would only be inserting our opinion without a basis of fact.

thus you have to go to other areas.. so tell me.. what ten kingdoms have been in power since that time and are still in power today? Scripture says the little horn comes out from among those kingdoms (meaning they still have power when he comes to power to subdue three of them) thus they would still have to be on power. I see no proof that some ten kingdom roman empire has been in power for the last 1500 years.. so why would they not be in power? maybe because they were not seen? why do you think the church was called a mystery? because it was not seen. yet we know the little horn has not come to power yet.. so would this mystery not be because we could not see the gap by looking in the straight line of prophetic utterance?
According to the prophecy each kingdom takes over immediately so with the 10 toes or horns, to say otherwise is to misinterpret the prophecy. Rome fell in 476 AD so we should look for the 10 kingdoms at that time.

In 476 the Roman empire was divided into 10 parts.
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

From among them came the little horn, the little horn is Roman in origin and comes from among the nations of Europe.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
Do you have any scripture about the clay? or is that just your opinion
I gave ya scripture about the clay. I guess you can;t read?

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.

It is a ten kingdom unit that is divided. It is not as strong as the iron legs. because it is not united. It is not opinion. it is what the passage says!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
According to the prophecy each kingdom takes over immediately so with the 10 toes or horns, to say otherwise is to misinterpret the prophecy. Rome fell in 476 AD so we should look for the 10 kingdoms at that time.

In 476 the Roman empire was divided into 10 parts.
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

From among them came the little horn, the little horn is Roman in origin and comes from among the nations of Europe.
Your assuming the kingdom comes immediately with no basis of fact.

The little horn destroys three kings. According to your theory, the little horn destroyed the ostrogoths, vandals and heruli, which we know is not true. thus they CANT be the ten kingdoms.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
THE HERODS

Edomites!
how can they be the clay? the ten kingdom united form of rome is ALL clay and iron mixed.

and who said the Herod were edomites? the nation of edom was destroyed long before this time. Not to mention, it would go against the way the romans did things, they chose puppet kings from each of the nations they conquered. Thus they would have chosen jews, not edomites, who were the enemy of the jews.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
So if we are NOT the clay who is it? LOL
the kingdom is iron and clay, it is a vision. about a divided kingdom. that is why clay is mixed with iron. their is no clay and iron. The iron represents the strength of rome, not certain kings, the clay represents the fragmented kingdom. why are you trying to complicate things?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#59
how can they be the clay? the ten kingdom united form of rome is ALL clay and iron mixed.

and who said the Herod were edomites? the nation of edom was destroyed long before this time. Not to mention, it would go against the way the romans did things, they chose puppet kings from each of the nations they conquered. Thus they would have chosen jews, not edomites, who were the enemy of the jews.
Herod was born around 74 BC in the south (Idumea was the most southern region).[9][10] He was the second son of Antipater the Idumaean, a high-ranked official under Ethnarch Hyrcanus II, and Cypros, a Nabatean. Herod was practicing Judaism, as many Edomites and Nabateans had been commingled with the Jews and adopted their customs.[11] These "Judanized" Edomites were not considered Jewish by the dominant Pharisaic tradition, so even though Herod may have considered himself of the Jewish faith, he was not considered Jewish by the observant and nationalist Jews of Judea.[12] A loyal supporter of Hyrcanus II, Antipater appointed Herod governor of Galilee at 25, and his elder brother, Phasael, governor of Jerusalem. He enjoyed the backing of Rome but his brutality was condemned by the Sanhedrin.[13]

Herod the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ....click

com·min·gle (k-mnggl)
v. com·min·gled, com·min·gling, com·min·gles
v.intr.
To become blended.
v.tr.
To cause to blend together; mix.


ECB(i) 40 And the fourth sovereigndom becomes mighty as iron: because as iron pulverizes and crushes all: and as iron shatters all these, it pulverizes and shatters. 41 And as to what you saw - the feet and digits, of clay of the potters, and of iron, the sovereigndom becomes divided; for the strength of the iron becomes therein just as you saw the iron comingled with miry clay. 42 And the digits of the feet, of iron and of clay, thus the sovereigndom - becomes mighty, and becomes partly broken. 43 And as you saw iron comingled with miry clay, they become comingled with the seed of men: but they become not this with that - behold, as iron is not comingled with clay
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#60
Your assuming the kingdom comes immediately with no basis of fact.

The little horn destroys three kings. According to your theory, the little horn destroyed the ostrogoths, vandals and heruli, which we know is not true. thus they CANT be the ten kingdoms.
There is a basis of fact, the rest of the prophecy. First we have Babylon the immediately after is Medo-Persia then immediately after is Greece then immediately after is Rome. So according to the Prophecy immediately after is the 10 horns. There is no basis of fact for a gap for the prophecy has no gap.

Also the clay is the church
Jeremiah 18:6 KJV
(6) O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

The iron=Rome, The clay=The church. So the mingling iron & clay is a union of church and state and if you look at history after 476 AD that is what we see in Europe with the Papacy and also with Islam, both are church state powers.