Did God die on the cross.

[watchmen]

Let me point out what started all this. As a Trinitarian I believe that the second person of the trinity (the Divine Eternal Word) was made flesh and died on the cross. As a Trinitarian, believing in a Triune God, it is perfectly acceptable to say that God died on the cross even though we believe it to be properly the second person of the Triune God (the DIVINE Incarnate Word) which died as the other persons of the Trinity did not.

This is polytheism is a way that most trinitarians would not prescribe to. The way you explain it only 1/3 of God died, not the other 2/3 of the Godhead. Jesus was fully God not 1/3 God if His divinity died then the whole of God would have died with Him as Colossians 2:9 says...The fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Christ bodily, not just a portion ''the 2nd person of the Trinity'' as you refer to it.

 

[1Covenant]

First of all...a handful of people on this site do not qualify as most in the protestant faith.
Second, you do not believe in the trinity therefore it puts you in a very bad position to argue trinitarian beliefs against trinitarian beliefs.
And if I might state the obvious without offense, since you think this is all new it speaks to me that any study on this matter on your part has been superficial. Many have written on this subject searching out the scriptures since the early church. I particularly like Athanasius work in the 300s against the Arian heresy which eventually resulted in the Council of Nicaea creed in 325 AD.

 

[suaso]

That Athanasius was a cool dude.

*hugs her copy of De Incarnatione*

 

[1Covenant]

That Athanasius was a cool dude.

*hugs her copy of De Incarnatione*

I was going to tell you my favorite part but I realized there is more than just one. That is a great work.

 

[loveschild]

Yes God died. 3 days later rose back alive. Any real Christian knows that.

 

[Leilaii425]

well i think there trying to say it was jesus, not god.. however i could be wrong.

 

[watchmen]

First of all...a handful of people on this site do not qualify as most in the protestant faith.
Second, you do not believe in the trinity therefore it puts you in a very bad position to argue trinitarian beliefs against trinitarian beliefs.

This is where you are wrong, I was trinitarian for 32 of my 35 years of life, and remain in a trinitarian church. I know exactly what they teach, and God dying on the cross is not one of those things.

 

[watchmen]

Yes God died. 3 days later rose back alive. Any real Christian knows that.

So you are claim 9 of the 17 people who voted on this thread are not real christians because they do not agree with you on a particular subject. WOW!!! that is the pinnacle of pride.

 

[Definition_Christ]

You are right no Oneness believer thinks God died on the cross, and no trinitarian believer should either. From this thread you can see many trinitarian believers do not believe God died on the cross nor should they, it is an absurdity to believe so.

I agree with you there Watchmen but I've got a question for you...

...Watchmen just a question about Oneness.. Well other than heaps of Scriptures in the Gospels doesn't it go wrong in Hebrews 1? I mean come on it says..
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

I mean either the Scripture is teaching TWO God's which is not true because...
Isaiah 44:
8.....Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’

I mean unless Hebrews was talking about another PERSON who is God? I mean unless you believe in the Trinity isn't that teaching polytheism? That isn't Biblical....We know the Bible teaches Monotheism. Please get back.. God bless!!

 

[AnRev]

Hello folks, God did not die on the cross, God is a spirit. Jesus died on the cross, who is not a spirit but was a man of flesh and bone.

God is greater than Jesus and he sent Jesus into the world. Jesus did not send himself. Jesus is also not the only son of God, he is the only begotten one, but not the only one. The Trinity belief is false teaching and not supported by the Nicene Creed like some want to express.

God is made of seven spirits, read Revelation to see. Seven spirits do not make a trinity. The trinity is brought on by the spirit of the antichrist and has deceived many over it.

God did not die on the cross.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Hello folks, God did not die on the cross, God is a spirit. Jesus died on the cross, who is not a spirit but was a man of flesh and bone.

God is greater than Jesus and he sent Jesus into the world. Jesus did not send himself. Jesus is also not the only son of God, he is the only begotten one, but not the only one. The Trinity belief is false teaching and not supported by the Nicene Creed like some want to express.

God is made of seven spirits, read Revelation to see. Seven spirits do not make a trinity. The trinity is brought on by the spirit of the antichrist and has deceived many over it.

God did not die on the cross.

Uhh yeah the Bible clearly teaches and supports the Trinity, I mean I know you don't get the word "Trinity" from inside of the Bible but you get everything it stands for inside the Bible..Do you believe Jesus is God?? I am curious because I noticed you didn't say God the Father is greater than Jesus you just said.. God.. So please get back to me. I am curious if you believe in the Deity of Christ which is clearly taught in the Scriptures.

and as far as the 7 spirits.. I mean we can talk about that quickly also.. here..

the seven spirits of God- through the Holy Spirit. (ONE SPIRIT.. 7 'offices' so to say)
Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
1. The Spirit of the LORD
2. The Spirit of wisdom.
3. The Spirit of understanding.
4. The Spirit of counsel.
5. The Spirit might.
6. The Spirit of knowledge.
7. The Spirit of fear of the LORD.

'For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day'. (Zec. 3:9).

The Hebrew word for eyes (ayin) can also be translated as facets.
So the stone has seven facets. That is speaking of God's Word. Both the Spirit and the Word are 7-fold. Sense the Word and the Spirit go hand and hand, you can't understand the Word without the Spirit.
7-Fold is the best way to put it.

 

[AnRev]

Definition_Christ you are correct in discerning that there are two separate entities. God is the father and Jesus always stated so. Jesus never claimed to be God and when he left he left behind the Holy Spirit.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

This does not suggest that because the word was God that when the word became flesh that it was God. The word is God because all things exist by Gods word, even us, yet we are not God.

The word that became flesh was Gods promise to send a savior. John was correct in what he said, but people who do not understand what is going on and how Satan is setting up his kingdom do not understand what John said.

Though the Trinity belief has been around since around 300 AD, it is not accepted by true believers and that is why they often stay way from churches. Jesus said his sheep hear his voice, not the voice of Satan or the Antichrist spirit. Jesus is the Son of God, but he is not God and never will be.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Definition_Christ you are correct in discerning that there are two separate entities. God is the father and Jesus always stated so. Jesus never claimed to be God and when he left he left behind the Holy Spirit.

Funny you said that actually.. Hmm let's examine the Scripture shall we?..Because Jesus DID claim to be God. and He had the right to because HE is God.

Philippians 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God

Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)

John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (NKJV)

What does that mean? ..Well we can conclude that Jesus IS the Great I AM.
How important is that? Do we NEED to know Jesus is God ? Answer: Very important, and yes.. Yes we do.

John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins. (NKJV)

Jesus IS Jehovah.. (Watchmen even agrees with me there lol)

 

[AnRev]

Definition_Christ Are you saying that Jesus has children?

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them." Job 1:6

"When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7

"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead" Rev 3:1

"And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." Rev 4:5

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Mat 7:21

If Jesus is God then are you saying that this scripture is incorrectly written? Are you saying that it should read: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of MySELF WHO IS HEAVEN AND EARTH."

Are you saying that this is incorrectly written also: "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven." and it should eb written like this: "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before MYSELF WHO IS IN HEAVEN?"

Are you saying that "And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." should be written and say "And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is ME, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus IS NOT God. Never has been and never will be.

A KING is Royalty, and like wise a Prince is Royalty. Therefore, God is Deity, and so is Jesus.

Did Jesus say he was God when he was asked "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" No, he said he was Gods son; "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Are you saying that this should be re-written to say: "For God so loved the world that He gave HIMSELF, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

There is a reason the Trinity belief exists, and i am sure since you believe in it you will not listen as to why it exists.

 

[AnRev]

You say: John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (NKJV)

Yes before Abraham was, Jesus was. That I AM means that he existed, it does not mean that he was God, but he was with him.

"And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:5

Are you saying that Jesus was talking to himself here? How then can he glorify himself to himself?

Should Jesus have said: "And now, O MYSELF, glorify Me together with ME, with the glory which I had with ME before the world was."

 

[Definition_Christ]

Common mistake a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and some Oneness have on the Trinity, Jesus is NOT the Father, and the Father is NOT the Son. I agree fully with all those Scriptures. God is ONE God but three co-equal co-eternal Persons .. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. ALL God.. But 3 distinct Persons.


John 20:28.. Thomas says..
mou Kurios kai mou Theos
(in English)my Lord and my God.
to a monotheistic Jew who said.. "Shama Yisrael Yehovah elohym Yehovah echad "
every morning... The Lord our God is one Lord...For HiM to say this to Jesus... Now remember what did Thomas do after? He worshiped Jesus... Remember when Satan was tempting Jesus and Jesus said you shall not bow down to anyone but the LORD your God?.. Well Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas instead He said BLESSED ARE YOU.. Jesus did claim to be God, Jesus IS God... I mean you have to believe Jesus is God or you will die in your sins man!! Didn't you read my last post??

Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)

John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (NKJV)

What does that mean? ..Well we can conclude that Jesus IS the Great I AM.
How important is that? Do we NEED to know Jesus is God ? Answer: Very important, and yes.. Yes we do.

John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that [B]I AM, you will die in your sins[/B]. (NKJV)

and JESUS IS NOT THE FATHER....Don't you know how many times God appeared in the OT? That was Jesus before He became flesh.. NOBODY has seen the Father at anytime
John 1:18 - No one has seen God (the Father) at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV

The AMP says it like this..

John 1:18 - No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. (AMP)

And okay that is your excuse for John 8:58 but what about John 8:24
John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that [B]I AM, you will die in your sins[/B]. (NKJV)[/QUOTE]
Jesus IS God. Jesus IS the I AM. Jesus is NOT the Father though.

 

[AnRev]

Many bibles have been changed to reflect what others want others to believe.

John 8:24 Modern King James Versions says: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

American Standard: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

I believe it says that if you don't believe Jesus is the SON of God there. I don't see any mention of him being God.

 

[Definition_Christ]

There is a reason the Trinity belief exists, and i am sure since you believe in it you will not listen as to why it exists.

Man.. You are confusing the Trinity with Modalism which says that God is God... But God has masks for example God is the Father.. puts that mask away, God is now the Son, puts that mask away and now God is the Holy Spirit.. That is NOT the Trinity... Modalism was rejected in like the 2nd century!!.. Do you want me to explain the Trinity to you?

 

[AnRev]

You said: "Jesus is NOT the Father though."

Then consider what you say,, if he is not the father he is not the I AM. You're close to getting it right.

 

[watchmen]

D_C, and AnRev you two are getting off topic. Jesus to answer your question about Hebrews 1 Jesus was God and the Father was His God, because Jesus had a dual nature, not because there are two gods nor because there are more than one person in the Godhead. However as far as this topic is concerned no God did not die.