Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

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V

valiant

Senior Member
#461
Mar 22, 2015
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#461
PS said:
The Ten Commandments given by God to Moses on the mountain stand for all time.
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The so called 'ten commandments' (a Roman Catholic idea) are really ten provisions in God's covenant with Israel. When Jesus listed the commandments He always omitted the law of the Sabbath which was specifically given to Israel.

The issue is the 613 Mitzvot Laws, commonly referred to as the Levitical Laws because they were given by the Levite Priests after they came out of exile, and because the priests are of the tribe of Levi, the same as Moses they are often spoken of as the Mosaic Law. These laws allow for capitol punishment including stoning and these are the laws Jesus had issue with and which he ended for all time.
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Moses amplified on the ten words of the covenant in what followed. ALL are as binding as each other.

Israel knew nothing of two laws. WE may distinguish ethical and ceremonial, they did not.

Thank God He has delivered us from the accusing finger of the Law, which has died to us and we to it, so that we might be united with Another (Rom 7.1-6).


The problem is, as far as I know, they are still enshrined in Jewish law even today and of course children of Jewish families are still brought up on them.
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The whole Law is binding on Jews until they have been redeemed in Christ..
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#462
Jun 24, 2011
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#462
Stunnedbygrace said:
We are almost on the same page. :)

But there is a snag in my mind somewhere concerning what you say. Difficult to put into words though...

We have been freed from the law of sin and death. Does this mean, to you, that we no longer keep the command to not murder because it has been done away with? No, of course that would be ridiculous, right? But instead we see that He deals with the sin of murder with us, not as an outward obedience, but inwardly, where the murder first occurs, in our heart.

That we not murder has not been done away with. It will never be done away with. The WAY of obedience has changed.
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We don't keep commands. We never did keep commands.

We are carnal. Our thoughts, will and strength are all carnal.

So it is pure imagination to think that ANYONE actually keeps commandments.

If you want to view the commandments as just carnal commandments then they have lost their power to bring a person to Christ. Carnal people can keep carnal commandments. No need for special help from that. But if you look at the law the way the Lord Jesus presented it in Matthew 5 you probably can't ever go back to looking at the law as a carnal commandment.

I know others can, and do. But I don't think you could.


The only way anyone can even come close to keeping commands is if they die to their work and understanding of the law and abide in Christ instead.

Then Christ does the work of obedience in our lives. Not to give us a boost so we can go back to our work and understanding of the law. So we can continue to have rest from that. Because the fruit that the Lord produces in us is Obedience, it is the fulfillment of the law. Not by our understanding or strength but by Christs.

2 Corinthians 12:9 [FONT=&quot]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


[/FONT]It sounded like we were saying close to the same thing but I just wanted to clarify a bit...
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#463
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#463
PS said:
So why are people on here, and other forums, continually talking about the law? Are they Judaizers?

Here is the truth about the Levitical Law. LINK
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Who cares about a levitical law?

Judaism doesn't even care about levitical law.

Are those then that practice Judaism now doing the same as Christians? Working at the 10 commandments and hoping that God forgives them for their shortcomings?

Nope. Christians are dead to the law so they can live to Christ. Thats what happens when we come to Him.

Matthew 11:28-30
[FONT=&quot]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.[/FONT]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#464
#464
Grandpa said:
Who cares about a levitical law?

Judaism doesn't even care about levitical law.

Are those then that practice Judaism now doing the same as Christians? Working at the 10 commandments and hoping that God forgives them for their shortcomings?

Nope. Christians are dead to the law so they can live to Christ. Thats what happens when we come to Him.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
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I will never understand how or why people can look at the OT, Can see Moses after he gave the children of Israel the stone that lets and law. Then demanded as per God They ALL confirm and OBEY ever word to the letter. Otherwise they would be under an curse (A task NO ONE HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED, (well Christ did) OR IS ACCOMPLIOSHING NOW) and think they keep the law.....:confused:

It just boggles my mind.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#465
Jan 18, 2011
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#465
eternally-gratefull said:
I will never understand how or why people can look at the OT, Can see Moses after he gave the children of Israel the stone that lets and law. Then demanded as per God They ALL confirm and OBEY ever word to the letter. Otherwise they would be under an curse (A task NO ONE HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED, (well Christ did) OR IS ACCOMPLIOSHING NOW) and think they keep the law.....:confused:

It just boggles my mind.
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also mind boggling- how the Hebrew roots/sda think that the whole world was given the law, when there is no record in the Bible of people from all over the world at Sinai, and no form of mass communication.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#466
May 23, 2012
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#466
Jesus raised the standard read in Matt where Jesus speaks concerning the LAW. Jesus said "it has been said " BUT I SAY "
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#467
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#467
eternally-gratefull said:
I will never understand how or why people can look at the OT, Can see Moses after he gave the children of Israel the stone that lets and law. Then demanded as per God They ALL confirm and OBEY ever word to the letter. Otherwise they would be under an curse (A task NO ONE HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED, (well Christ did) OR IS ACCOMPLIOSHING NOW) and think they keep the law.....:confused:

It just boggles my mind.
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How do the people who WANT to work at the law cite Matthew 5:18 about no jots or tittles will fall from the law and then say that the Lord Jesus abolished the 613 and the levitical law?

Aren't those jots and tittles? If the levitical priesthood has been abolished then that is much more than a jot or a tittle. That's pretty much a whole book in the bible... Leviticus... several thousand jots and tittles...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#468
#468
CS1 said:
Jesus raised the standard read in Matt where Jesus speaks concerning the LAW. Jesus said "it has been said " BUT I SAY "
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Just goes there is SO MUCH more to being morally upright people then aborting the letter of the law. Which only purpose was to convince people they are sinners. And keep them in humility serving God until their messiah came

Oh how Isreal failed. And oh how many are failing today making the same mistake.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#469
Jun 24, 2011
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#469
CS1 said:
Jesus raised the standard read in Matt where Jesus speaks concerning the LAW. Jesus said "it has been said " BUT I SAY "
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Yes. The Lord Jesus magnified the law.

As High Priest He showed us that the Law is Spiritual and we desperately need Him in order to have obedience.

But if the law is brought back down to a carnal commandment then carnal people can fulfill that without help from the Lord.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#470
#470
Grandpa said:
How do the people who WANT to work at the law cite Matthew 5:18 about no jots or tittles will fall from the law and then say that the Lord Jesus abolished the 613 and the levitical law?

Aren't those jots and tittles? If the levitical priesthood has been abolished then that is much more than a jot or a tittle. That's pretty much a whole book in the bible... Leviticus... several thousand jots and tittles...
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I do not get it either brother. If God abolished part,. He abolished all. Paul pretty much insinuated this when he told the people if your going to obey one aspect. You better obey them all. Because as you said, ALL must be accomplished.

Of course, if the levitical is abolished, no wonder people are not seeking christ. They have failed to see the reverence of the levitical offerings.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#471
May 23, 2012
12,503
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#471
Grandpa said:
How do the people who WANT to work at the law cite Matthew 5:18 about no jots or tittles will fall from the law and then say that the Lord Jesus abolished the 613 and the levitical law?

Aren't those jots and tittles? If the levitical priesthood has been abolished then that is much more than a jot or a tittle. That's pretty much a whole book in the bible... Leviticus... several thousand jots and tittles...
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Please complete the verse . Matt 5:18 Jesus did not say only that in the context of matt 5:18 did he? Jesus said Un till all should be full filled.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#472
#472
Grandpa said:
Yes. The Lord Jesus magnified the law.

As High Priest He showed us that the Law is Spiritual and we desperately need Him in order to have obedience.

But if the law is brought back down to a carnal commandment then carnal people can fulfill that without help from the Lord.
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Well it would be easy, Do not commit adultry. Well I have never slept with another woman so I am good’
Do not kill? I have never killed anyone, so i am good
Do not covet. Well I wou Denver covet what others have, I have a lot already
Do not ..... (you get th picture)

No obey the spirit. Like jesus gave us a glimpse of in Matt. Good luck with that.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#473
#473
CS1 said:
Please complete the verse . Matt 5:18 Jesus did not say only that in the context of matt 5:18 did he? Jesus said Un till all should be full filled.
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And when is/was that?

When christ said it is finished

or when the last man/woman or child alive accepts christ as savior before this heaven and earth is destroyed?

Or when the great white throne procures and all people (non believers) are judged, and condemned.

I think this is where most differences come from.

 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#474
Jun 24, 2011
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#474
CS1 said:
Please complete the verse . Matt 5:18 Jesus did not say only that in the context of matt 5:18 did he? Jesus said Un till all should be full filled.
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Matthew 5:18 [FONT=&quot]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[/FONT]

Yes. Until all is fulfilled.

So what is the implication?

Either all is fulfilled or EVERY jot and tittle still stands.

Can't have part of the law fall away. Not because of the Lord. All or nothing.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#475
May 23, 2012
12,503
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#475
Grandpa said:
Yes. The Lord Jesus magnified the law.

As High Priest He showed us that the Law is Spiritual and we desperately need Him in order to have obedience.

But if the law is brought back down to a carnal commandment then carnal people can fulfill that without help from the Lord.
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I do not know your point Matt speaks to the authority of Christ. Jesus teaches the Law is full filled in HIM. The issue with those who say do what the law says to do, yET they hate people or are lusting in their heart. Jesus teaches God knows who you really are . just because you can keep 10 LAWS on the outside in front of men; don't mean your heart is right with God. I have not murdered anyone but if I hate Jesus said it is the same as Murder . Just because I have not cheated on my wife but have sexual thought of women Jesus said I have committed adultery. It has been my experience those who push legalism have more issue then they are showing . But God is not mocked :)

Jesus addressed this in Matthews 5,6, and 7.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#476
May 23, 2012
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#476
Grandpa said:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes. Until all is fulfilled.

So what is the implication?

Either all is fulfilled or EVERY jot and tittle still stands.

Can't have part of the law fall away. Not because of the Lord. All or nothing.
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the point is you cannot keep the LAW without Christ and if you could keep the law without Christ it would not save you. because you have already broken them and should have been judged the first time you did. God does not wink .

You have the ability only now to keep the law until you break it again, then what do you have ? two things Judgement or repentance = grace which is Jesus Blood paid for it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#477
#477
CS1 said:
the point is you cannot keep the LAW without Christ and if you could keep the law without Christ it would not save you. because you have already broken them and should have been judged the first time you did. God does not wink .

You have the ability only now to keep the law until you break it again, then what do you have ? two things Judgement or repentance = grace which is Jesus Blood paid for it.
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Are you saying the next time a person sins ther are again judged by the law? Until they repent? Just asking for clarification
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#478
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#478
CS1 said:
the point is you cannot keep the LAW without Christ and if you could keep the law without Christ it would not save you. because you have already broken them and should have been judged the first time you did. God does not wink .

You have the ability only know to keep the law until you break it again then what do you have ? two things Judgement or repentance = grace which is Jesus Blood paid for it.
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Yes, exactly. You cannot keep the law without Christ.

And if you think you can, then you get the WHOLE law to show you that you can't.

You DON'T get to take out the hard parts and then say "I keep the law"
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#479
Dec 9, 2011
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#479
JaumeJ said:
perhaps the following will help you....

Rom 7:21 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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:)Hello JaumeJ
Would I be correct If I paraphrased your thoughts on your post as saying that a person should try to keep the law with their mind before GOD will save them?

The Bible says that after salvation there Is nOw no condemnation to them that are In CHRIST JESUS.
 
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