Did Jesus die to take the punishment for everyone's sins?

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kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,412
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#61
Only a few when compared to those who perish. Think like a first-century Jew and you'll understand.

Yes, I agree, narrow is the path. Just being clear on what you were saying. I've agreed with you twice now. This has serious got to stop :p
 

JeremiahsCup

Active member
Feb 1, 2020
304
100
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#62
Yes, Jesus died and asked for them to be forgiven because they don't know what they do, and he was resurrected for everybody to know that God can save them from the lake of fire, and all that believe this will be saved. All that don't believe Jesus shall be thrown into the lake of fire with whatever lies they do believe because they have even condemned themselves to die by not believing in their only salvation, the Lord God, and because their deeds are evil.

John 3:16-21

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,604
444
83
#63
Yes, Jesus died and asked for them to be forgiven because they don't know what they do, and he was resurrected for everybody to know that God can save them from the lake of fire, and all that believe this will be saved. All that don't believe Jesus shall be thrown into the lake of fire with whatever lies they do believe because they have even condemned themselves to die by not believing in their only salvation, the Lord God, and because their deeds are evil.

John 3:16-21

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
“I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” John 17:9–11 (KJV 1900)
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
2,540
3,089
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#64
“Everyone who would ever” What about those before Christ who were called up to heaven? I assume you mean to say he atoned for them as well?

So, on the cross he paid for those who were already in heaven who didn’t believe in him when they perished but everyone after that day the atonement is dependent on the persons belief?
Do you not believe that God’s grace is upon those who walked the earth prior to Jesus and believed God when He said He would send the Messiah?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,305
2,086
113
www.christiancourier.com
#65
I do not disagree with 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John is saying that His Atonement ( propitation ) is for all nations tribes peoples.. It is not just for jews or greeks but for sinners from every race of people.. In context with the entirety of that rest of the scriptures that is the way it is to be understood..
Then why did you disagree with my post #6?
Disagree



Adstar

Tuesday at 7:38 AM
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,134
570
113
#66
So the atonement in your view was applied to Abraham because he believed and if I choose to believe it can be applied to me too? But if I choose not to believe then it’s not for me?
I can actually empathize with your view. Based on Romans 5:12-19, it seems strange that, when Adam sinned, I cannot choose not to believe in what he did. I am automatically condemned for death because, as the doctrine goes, Adam acts as my federal head.

But when the last Adam came, he obeyed God all the way to the cross. Yet, the first Adam's descendants had to believe in what he did and that he rose from the dead, in order for righteousness to be applied to me.

Viewed from this perspective, it does seem asymmetric and seems to imply that the first Adam's work is more powerful than the last Adam.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,863
2,501
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#67
Then why did you disagree with my post #6?
Disagree



Adstar

Tuesday at 7:38 AM
You where answering lovinglee's question


Lees question::
Did Jesus die to take the punishment for everyone's sins?
You answered Yes..

[QUOTE
Whispers answer:::
]Yes. The Book of 1st John chapter 2 [/QUOTE]

If Jesus took the punishment if Everyone's sins then NOBODY would ever be cast into the eternal lake of fire and face eternal punishment there.. But the Bible makes it clear that people shall be cast into the eternal lake of fire to face PUNISHMENT for their sins..

So people who believe Jesus will disagree with your answer of Yes and believe in the following scripture from the mouth of Jesus Himself that makes it Clear some will enter into everlasting punishment..

Matthew 25: KJV
41"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

So yeah i put a big fat red X response to your post and rightfully so..
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,604
444
83
#69
I can actually empathize with your view. Based on Romans 5:12-19, it seems strange that, when Adam sinned, I cannot choose not to believe in what he did. I am automatically condemned for death because, as the doctrine goes, Adam acts as my federal head.

But when the last Adam came, he obeyed God all the way to the cross. Yet, the first Adam's descendants had to believe in what he did and that he rose from the dead, in order for righteousness to be applied to me.

Viewed from this perspective, it does seem asymmetric and seems to imply that the first Adam's work is more powerful than the last Adam.
Nobody is saved by choosing to believe. If God saved you, he first gives you a new heart that believes when you hear the gospel. It hits home with us. Most of the saved are presented with the gospel but some are still saved who live beyond the reach of the gospel.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,504
1,581
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#70
...some are still saved who live beyond the reach of the gospel.
Hi Dave, please elaborate.

Also, do we know (or know of) anyone this has happened to, as the Bible seems to be saying the opposite, doesn’t it .. e.g. John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 2:12-13, Romans 10:17?

Thanks!

~Deut
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,134
570
113
#71
If you never sinned you wouldn’t be condemned.
As Romans 5:12-19, all of us are born sinners, we sinned thru Adam. It is not our actions that make us sinners.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,604
444
83
#72
Hi Dave, please elaborate.

Also, do we know (or know of) anyone this has happened to, as the Bible seems to be saying the opposite, doesn’t it .. e.g. John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 2:12-13, Romans 10:17?

Thanks!

~Deut
This can only be understood in the Calvinistic sense of Limited Atonement.

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” Acts 10:34–35 (KJV 1900)

Only those who are born again fear God and work true righteousness. Even if they are beyond the reach of the gospel. Cornelius was one such person who bore the fruits of the Spirit long before hearing Peter preach. Along with other Roman Officers who received healing from Christ before hearing the gospel. Christ only healed the faithful or those belonging to them. The gospel instructs them when heard in the way of holiness. And builds their faith.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
9,061
1,229
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#74
Nobody is saved by choosing to believe. If God saved you, he first gives you a new heart that believes when you hear the gospel. It hits home with us. Most of the saved are presented with the gospel but some are still saved who live beyond the reach of the gospel.
Not found anywhere in the Bible.

Some are saved without hearing...nonsense!
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,604
444
83
#75
Not found anywhere in the Bible.

Some are saved without hearing...nonsense!
But, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit from where faith comes.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
342
57
28
#77
Not found anywhere in the Bible.

Some are saved without hearing...nonsense!
I was saved by the hand of the LORD which quicken me in my iniquity, I had never opened a Bible much less believed what little I had heard people say was written within. If you don't believe that anyone is saved without hearing, then I am sure you will dismiss how I was saved, which is your prerogative.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,969
8,415
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Florida
#78
I was saved by the hand of the LORD which quicken me in my iniquity, I had never opened a Bible much less believed what little I had heard people say was written within. If you don't believe that anyone is saved without hearing, then I am sure you will dismiss how I was saved, which is your prerogative.
The thief hanging to the right of Jesus was saved as well without hearing the gospel.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,582
4,063
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#80
The thief hanging to the right of Jesus was saved as well without hearing the gospel.
We cannot say that with any degree of certainty. For all we know he was exposed to the preaching of the apostles or even of Christ Himself. That he had the certainty that Christ has an eternal Kingdom, and that He is indeed King of the Jews, means that he did not develop these ideas overnight. He simply had either ignored the Gospel or refused to repent earlier on.