Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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May 1, 2019
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You are like so many others.

It has nothign to do with you having anything good to say about the law. This remark is old and out of touch with what is really going on.

It is about what the bible says about the law. And how one is saved.

And why you and those like you can not answer simple questions. Instead just mock and belittle those who disagree with you.
EG it seems like every conversation about the law that you comment on is focused on how someone is saved. You need to get past that an move on with the rest of us to the "WALK". Your are still fussing over the milk you should be in the "MEAT" part of the walk.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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EG it seems like every conversation about the law that you comment on is focused on how someone is saved. You need to get past that an move on with the rest of us to the "WALK". Your are still fussing over the milk you should be in the "MEAT" part of the walk.
No

Because of a person is not saved, it does not matter HOW THEY WALK, The pharisees were seen as law keepers. As people who were innocent concerning the law. Jesus even said our righteousness must exceed theirs if we are to have any hope. How well did their “WALK” help them?

You ALWAYS have to get to the point of How someone is saved first. Because is not this what gives us the POWER TO WALK?
 
May 1, 2019
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No

Because of a person is not saved, it does not matter HOW THEY WALK, The pharisees were seen as law keepers. As people who were innocent concerning the law. Jesus even said our righteousness must exceed theirs if we are to have any hope. How well did their “WALK” help them?

You ALWAYS have to get to the point of How someone is saved first. Because is not this what gives us the POWER TO WALK?
You sure about the Pharisees being considered "Law Keepers"? All I read characterizes them as hypocrites...
 
May 1, 2019
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You sure about the Pharisees being considered "Law Keepers"? All I read characterizes them as hypocrites...
That is always what you want to talk about. But, If you read my posts you will find many places where I discuss this. You are obviously military in nature and if you served I appreciate that, many of us served in one way or another, but have you ever considered that you are too forceful/brutish with your remarks?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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We need to take a step back, and see the whole picture of God's Plan for us.

A very small chunk of Scripture is devoted to the Creation. Almost the entire remaining amount of Scripture is devoted to God's greatest Work, the redemption of humanity.

The redemption is the very REASON we have the Scriptures. Adam & Eve needed no written Word because God dwelt with them.

So what is His Great Plan of redemption? Well His Plan is to become human flesh in the form of His Son Jesus Christ, become the perfect Sacrifice to pay our sin debt, and resurrect Himself, and all those that are in Him.

He tells us His Plan on virtually every page of the Torah and the Old Testament. He does this in many ways, using differing methods, EVEN spelling it out exactly.

Genesis 5:

Hebrew: English:
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

The point is the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IS WRITTEN OF ME. It ALL, the Law included, is about Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is LITERALLY ALL these things. He is our comforter, He is our Peace, He is our mercy, and He is ESPECIALLY our Righteousness.

He IS the fulfillment of the Law, and if you think YOU trying to fulfill the Law has ANY bearing on your Salvation, then read what he said to those that tried more than ANY other humans who have ever lived to keep the Law:
Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

So we are NOT to love the Law. We are NOT to believe that the Law does ANYTHING for us. Our love must be for the One who FULFILLED the Law and died for us.
We need to give people Jesus, NOT the Law. Paul, John, Peter, and James ALL understood this. Why don't we?

Any that try and fulfill the Law need to ask themselves if they are truly His, or will the dreaded words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" echo in their ears forever.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You sure about the Pharisees being considered "Law Keepers"? All I read characterizes them as hypocrites...
Yeah they were hypocrites. They puffed themselves up as to how morally upright they were, While judging gentiles and sinners. Refusing to admit, the same law they claim they hold holds them just as guilty as the ones they were judging, Thats why Christ hit them so hard.

Of course, is usually what “law keepers” do, as I tried to show in my example a few pages back, (post 925) which by the way, You liked. So I am confused as to why you fought so hard to answer my questions..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Guys, you are not listening at all. :( this is exactly how you come across whether it is what you are trying to say or not you are giving off a militant spirit the second someone has anything good to say about Gods righteous commands.

I am honestly timid to quote Jesus for example:

Mat 5:6 KJV Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

because I don't want to hear a negative slant on His words.
John 5:39-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


JESUS IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WE SHOULD HUNGER AFTER. Not trying to do the Law in OUR righteousness!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That is always what you want to talk about. But, If you read my posts you will find many places where I discuss this. You are obviously military in nature and if you served I appreciate that, many of us served in one way or another, but have you ever considered that you are too forceful/brutish with your remarks?
You need to stop assuming things my friend. It is why people get so frustrated

1. I want to talk about how we get saved
2. Aftert we esctablish this truth, I would love to discuss how a child of God grows to be more like christ. (Also called sanctification) and what really empowers us to do this? The law? What law? Is it something else?

As an old saying goes. Lets not put the cart before the horse. Lets get some parameters set up. So we know where each other is coming from.

I can assume things you believe, but I would rather KNOW what you believe, thats WHY i ask questions.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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We need to take a step back, and see the whole picture of God's Plan for us.

A very small chunk of Scripture is devoted to the Creation. Almost the entire remaining amount of Scripture is devoted to God's greatest Work, the redemption of humanity.

The redemption is the very REASON we have the Scriptures. Adam & Eve needed no written Word because God dwelt with them.

So what is His Great Plan of redemption? Well His Plan is to become human flesh in the form of His Son Jesus Christ, become the perfect Sacrifice to pay our sin debt, and resurrect Himself, and all those that are in Him.

He tells us His Plan on virtually every page of the Torah and the Old Testament. He does this in many ways, using differing methods, EVEN spelling it out exactly.

Genesis 5:

Hebrew: English:
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

The point is the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IS WRITTEN OF ME. It ALL, the Law included, is about Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is LITERALLY ALL these things. He is our comforter, He is our Peace, He is our mercy, and He is ESPECIALLY our Righteousness.

He IS the fulfillment of the Law, and if you think YOU trying to fulfill the Law has ANY bearing on your Salvation, then read what he said to those that tried more than ANY other humans who have ever lived to keep the Law:
Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

So we are NOT to love the Law. We are NOT to believe that the Law does ANYTHING for us. Our love must be for the One who FULFILLED the Law and died for us.
We need to give people Jesus, NOT the Law. Paul, John, Peter, and James ALL understood this. Why don't we?

Any that try and fulfill the Law need to ask themselves if they are truly His, or will the dreaded words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" echo in their ears forever.
Blessed are the “POOR” in spirit

I wonder of people actually looked this word (greek) up to see what it really says.

Jesus is telling us where we need to be before we will come to him in faith so that we can enter the kingdom of God.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
We need to take a step back, and see the whole picture of God's Plan for us.

A very small chunk of Scripture is devoted to the Creation. Almost the entire remaining amount of Scripture is devoted to God's greatest Work, the redemption of humanity.

The redemption is the very REASON we have the Scriptures. Adam & Eve needed no written Word because God dwelt with them.

So what is His Great Plan of redemption? Well His Plan is to become human flesh in the form of His Son Jesus Christ, become the perfect Sacrifice to pay our sin debt, and resurrect Himself, and all those that are in Him.

He tells us His Plan on virtually every page of the Torah and the Old Testament. He does this in many ways, using differing methods, EVEN spelling it out exactly.

Genesis 5:

Hebrew: English:
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

The point is the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IS WRITTEN OF ME. It ALL, the Law included, is about Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is LITERALLY ALL these things. He is our comforter, He is our Peace, He is our mercy, and He is ESPECIALLY our Righteousness.

He IS the fulfillment of the Law, and if you think YOU trying to fulfill the Law has ANY bearing on your Salvation, then read what he said to those that tried more than ANY other humans who have ever lived to keep the Law:
Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

So we are NOT to love the Law. We are NOT to believe that the Law does ANYTHING for us. Our love must be for the One who FULFILLED the Law and died for us.
We need to give people Jesus, NOT the Law. Paul, John, Peter, and James ALL understood this. Why don't we?

Any that try and fulfill the Law need to ask themselves if they are truly His, or will the dreaded words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" echo in their ears forever.

Greetings PennEd,

I have always been amazed at how the meanings of the names actually form a message of Love to His servants! Thanks for sharing that.

I appreciate your other points too!

But there is another phase of Life in Christ after our initial justification.

Sanctification is the process of being made holy, or righteous. This is a continual puting away of the carnal nature and putting on the Righteousness of Christ. This involves cultivating a love of the commandments. Agree? Disagree?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Greetings PennEd,

I have always been amazed at how the meanings of the names actually form a message of Love to His servants! Thanks for sharing that.

I appreciate your other points too!

But there is another phase of Life in Christ after our initial justification.

Sanctification is the process of being made holy, or righteous. This is a continual puting away of the carnal nature and putting on the Righteousness of Christ. This involves cultivating a love of the commandments. Agree? Disagree?
Does it?? Really?

What happens if we do not cultivate this love of mosaic law?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,625
4,985
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Greetings PennEd,

I have always been amazed at how the meanings of the names actually form a message of Love to His servants! Thanks for sharing that.

I appreciate your other points too!

But there is another phase of Life in Christ after our initial justification.

Sanctification is the process of being made holy, or righteous. This is a continual puting away of the carnal nature and putting on the Righteousness of Christ. This involves cultivating a love of the commandments. Agree? Disagree?

Thank you for your kind words, but as I've already stated, our love needs to focused on Jesus, NOT the Law. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us to be more Christ-like. His burden is light. Love Him with all your strength, soul, heart and mind, and your neighbor as yourself. Do that, and you have the Law.
 
May 1, 2019
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Thank you for your kind words, but as I've already stated, our love needs to focused on Jesus, NOT the Law. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us to be more Christ-like. His burden is light. Love Him with all your strength, soul, heart and mind, and your neighbor as yourself. Do that, and you have the Law.

Nicely Put! and not much to disagree with either. Seeing as Jesus is the Law I guess you could say we agree totally! :) Listen, you dig taters with me and that's all we will be talking about...Jesus that is! Of course I will mention the law of sowing and reaping..Of course! ;)
 
May 1, 2019
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Does it?? Really?

What happens if we do not cultivate this love of mosaic law?

EG, I'm sure you do love the law. Taking care of your neighbors animals if they show up on your property, saving back fruit of crops for the poor, taking care of widows, the fatherless. Why argue against what you agree with?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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1,042
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Here's another way to look at this topic:

Those who reject the Law are literally "under the burden of the Law"

Those who receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit which writes the Law upon their heart, are no longer "under the burden of the Law" because they are in conformity with it!

Pauls words:

Gal 5:18 KJV But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

"under the law" would be better understood if we recognized it as a "term" that means buried by the immense pressure of something we cannot lift. But as Paul clarifies it: "But IF ye be led of the Spirit..." The Law is no longer an immense pressure!

Take a look:

Rom 7:18-25 KJV For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. (22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul recognizes his old carnal man is "under the Law"/buried by it, but through Jesus Christ he finds a renewed mind with which to serve the LAW!


Rom 8:7-11 KJV Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


The Spirit of life is righteousness! What is righteousness? Those who are not "under the law" but through the Spirit "Serve the Law"
hi SimpleGardner,

I would like to discuss the phrase
under the law
with you.

I think a good way of putting it in English is
obligated to take on the physical and spiritual actions and attitudes described in the law delivered through Moses to Israel in the wilderness.

or to put it a shorter way
required to do the things in the law.

if we use the definition
under the burden of the law

or

buried by the immense pressure of the law

I don't think that works as well



for example
1 Corinthians 9: 20. To the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain those who are under the law.

does Paul mean that when witnessing to observant Jews he takes on a lifestyle in which he is under the burden of the law or or buried by the immense pressure of it?

I don't think so. I think he is saying that he takes on a lifestyle where he performs the physical actions described in the law.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,137
8,215
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Guys, you are not listening at all.
NEITHER ARE YOU.

If you want to avoid coming across as a complete hypocrite, don't misrepresent the views of others and then complain that your views are being misrepresented.

this is exactly how you come across whether it is what you are trying to say or not you are giving off a militant spirit the second someone has anything good to say about Gods righteous commands.
Was Paul gentle, peaceable, and quiet-spirited when he confronted the Judaizers? Um, no. He was direct and firm, because he knew that the message they taught was contrary to the gospel. Nobody here is saying anything "bad" about God's commands. We're saying that as Christians, we aren't subject to them for righteousness. There is a massive difference!

I am honestly timid to quote Jesus for example:

Mat 5:6 KJV Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

because I don't want to hear a negative slant on His words.
What do hungry and thirsty people do once they have been filled? Do they go on being hungry and thirsty? No; they are satisfied.

We as Christians have been filled. We aren't still hungering and thirsting, and if we do temporarily, we repent of known sin and trust again in the forgiveness and righteousness of Christ. We don't seek to be obedient to the Law to become righteous.

However, that doesn't mean that we cut the Old Testament from our Bibles, but that is essentially what you seem to believe.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I do enjoy diggin taters! Even when it's HOT! Been a good year so far. I enjoy sweet taters too! Usually plant a bunch and dig a bunch!
We used to. No place to put there where we live now. Just bought some property out east for a vacation place. may try to start them up again!