Did Jesus expect people to keep all of the Ten Commandments?

[john832]

Well even before he finished the work of the law he began to implement his new law.

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
Where in the Old Testament, or by reading the ten commandments, did you get the notion that hating or being angry at your brother was equivalent to murdering him? It didn't say it at all!
And he did it constantly, you have heard, BUT I SAY. He pretty much covered all the commandments without referring specifically to those commandments. Actually more than that he raised the bar.

The law and ten commandments were given specifically to Israel as part of the mosaic covenant. Under Christ, we are not under the ten commandments, we are now under a higher and greater law. Which is why keeping the sabbath is not specifically given as a command by Paul to the gentiles, the gentiles were not there when God made his covenant with Israel, therefore keeping the sabbath is not a gentile command. However, in Hebrews it is mentioned that those in Christ who rest in him are in the sabbath rest, even though it's not a specific command.
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Which is another reason why Paul fought with the Judaizers so much. They kept trying to bring the gentiles under the law.

So the Law was given just to Israel by Moses?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

word for Laws here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

No Sabbath command in Hebrews?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The word for rest here is Sabbatismos and it means a keeping of the Sabbath. From the Diaglott...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Thayer's has it...

G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521
Citing in TDNT: 7:34, 989

The word used here is not the katapausis or patapauo used in the other verses, it is Sabbatismos.

Col 2:16-17...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

First of all, notice it says not to let anyone judge you FOR KEEPING THE SABBATH, not for breaking it. Now look at verse 17, it says the Sabbath (among the others) is a shadow of THINGS TO COME, future tense. This was written 20 some years after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It looks ahead to the Millenium, it is a shadow or a type of what is coming.

 

[john832]

So, since Jesus didn't say don't blaspheme and don't worship idols Christians are free to commit blasphemy and idolatry. Jesus didn't say don't covet, so that's gone as well. Jesus didn't say keep the Sabbath so the Sabbath, what God Himself called an eternal covenant is not eternal. Meaning God is a liar. God changed His mind about the Sabbath. Eternal doesn't mean eternal it means until God feels like changing His mind. Gotcha. Good to know that your God changes. The commandments written by His finger can be discarded as being no longer relevant.

Not only can you be perfect without keeping the Sabbath day, you can be perfect while worshiping idols and blaspheming God and coveting. I mean, after all Jesus didn't mention those when asked what must be done to get eternal life.

Ever notice there is no prohibition against bestiality in the N.T.? Would anyone say that is OK? Same with the Ten Commandments, it took a church conference in Jerusalem to settle the question about physical or spiritual circumcision and that is not even one of the Ten. Don't you think if one or all the Commandments were done away there would have been a trememdous uproar?

 

[Christforme]

That's a fallacy. You're still a sinner and still unable to keep the law of GOD. Grace doesn't allow one to keep the law better; it allows one to be forgiven and abide in love which fulfills the whole purpose and the requirements of law. GOD is love, so those who abide in love are well pleasing to GOD.

By Jesus' power she can definitely keep the law. The Bible said "if ye walk in the Spirit, ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh"- galatians
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
"Without Me, ye can do nothing".
What Shiloh said was no lie at all. What you are saying is a direct contradiction of the Scriptures. And you cannot answer me from the Holy Bible.
"Whosoever is born of God sinneth not." 1 john
"Sin is the transgression of the law".
Keep your protestant theology please out of the doctrines of the Holy Bible. You are hanging on to the first part of the message, the second part of the message being "shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid." You ignore. Shiloh does not like you. Shiloh believes in Him, and obeys Him because of her love for Him. Shiloh will not allow her opinions before the Bible, or anything to come between her and God. Every true believer will SEE, that the commandments will be obeyed, and YOU are already convicted about that, and you cannot lie to me on this one, cuz i have the Holy Bible as my sole rule of faith.
Luke 16:17 according to Jesus, whom me and Shiloh WILL follow, "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one tittle of the law to fail."
And revelation 22:14 makes it clear that those who are blessed KEEP the commandments, and have right unto the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I have a post, mark of the beast is sunday laws, and another one, vatican challenge to protestants. Bible truth vs. protestant theology. You might want to read the second one though.

 

[zone]

do not attempt to teach others that the commandment to observe the Sabbath of the Lord is optional.

optional?
are you saved by Christ + Sinai sabbath, jack?

 

[zone]

By Jesus' power she can definitely keep the law.

Galatians 3:11
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

that little book Jesus + Law-keepers wish would go away.


"CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

all means all.
slipped up?
yer under a curse.
adjusted the Law to suit your version of sabbath?
cursed.

clear enuff?

 

[JaumeJ]

There is a prohibition against beastiality.........

Ever notice there is no prohibition against bestiality in the N.T.? Would anyone say that is OK? Same with the Ten Commandments, it took a church conference in Jerusalem to settle the question about physical or spiritual circumcision and that is not even one of the Ten. Don't you think if one or all the Commandments were done away there would have been a trememdous uproar?

 

[Christforme]

Galatians 3:11
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

that little book Jesus + Law-keepers wish would go away.


"CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

all means all.
slipped up?
yer under a curse.
adjusted the Law to suit your version of sabbath?
cursed.

clear enuff?

This has been a lot. And the same position is brought forward. I answered the issue of me being a sinner and in need of Christ. What i am talking about is after being saved, you don't sin wilfully. Romans 3:31. Romans 6:15
Because if you do you place yourself right where you started (under the curse of the law).
But if you fall into sin, don't despair. John did say, "these things have i written unto you, THAT YE SIN NOT" the very next verse says, "BUT if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."- 1 john

 

[JaumeJ]

When people who love Yeshua can say they are free of the commandments because the curse of the law was nailed to the cross with Him, it is obvious they know nothing.

Certainly they are not listening or reading the teachings of the Master. It is best to ignore these wandering souls.

Imagine telling Yeshua, the one who lived, suffered and died for each of us, "I am so glad you did this for me, now I am free of obeying the Father." I would not dare say such to our Savior, and anyone who does , has not a clue as to Who He is.

These misguided people are saying we are free to disregard the Ten Commandments, Once more I ask, which of the Ten are we to ignore? They are all within the meaning of the two great laws, all of them

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 6:14-18
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


If a person is still working at the law then they have not been made free from sin. If a person is still working at the law then they have rejected grace, just as the disobedient children in the wilderness did.

The Lord Jesus Christ sums up the Law in Matthew 5 by saying Be Perfect Like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. That's a pretty heavy yoke to put on someone. Be Perfect Like God is Perfect. I don't think the legalists realize what the Law says. They just focus on what they think the flesh can keep and happily ignore all the rest.

What these sad legalists don't understand is that our fight is against powers and principalities. Its a spiritual battle. What your flesh does or doesn't do on saturdays has very little bearing on this. What you need in a spiritual war is a spiritual ally.


That is how a person is made free from sin and yoked to righteousness, spiritually. Not by your working at the law, but by the asking of faith.

Imagine telling the Lord Jesus Christ 'I don't want to be freed from this heavy yoke. Thanks for your Grace but no thanks.' I couldn't think of a worse thing to say to Him. But that is what you are saying if you work at the law. You are saying we can do this by the law, God, just like the children in the wilderness. Oh, but there is no temple so we won't be doing sacrifices and such. Everything else though we will do.

The judaizer didn't learn the lesson that was taught by the children in the wilderness. They must not read it or comprehend it. If righteousness were by the Law then the Lord Jesus would not have established a New Way.

What New Way?
Matthew 11:28-30

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

All you that labor and are heavy laden. By the Law. Trying to be Perfect Like God. The Lord says He will take that labor from you and give you rest.

 

[GreenNnice]

The grace of God given us by His Son dying on the cross is the better 'Way,' but we are still to obey the 10 commandments, silly to think any different, it's just that the 10 are under the One

 

[RedTent]

Which is another reason why Paul fought with the Judaizers so much. They kept trying to bring the gentiles under the law.

You need to be precise when you say what God is telling us in scripture. Paul fought with the "judaizers" because the Jews felt that the gentiles should worship God as they did. Christian Jews were well aware that Christ died for their sins. For thousands of years people who joined Jews in knowing God had followed them in how they worshipped, they couldn't see why knowing Christ should require them to change, and thought the gentiles should follow them, too. Gentiles were used to pagan worship, and didn't want to take on the ways of the Jews who they thought were rather strange. It had nothing at all to do with whether working saved them or not. That idea came when Paul was explaining why they did not need to worship in the Jewish style. The idea that it is against God to worship as the Jews did is something the church added later, it is not in scripture.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, perfection is now obeying in the commandment of JESUS and the instructions of HIS chosen Apostles to the churches then and now, fulfilling and completing the New Covenant for the Kingdom of GOD.
HE who just spoke as quoted, saying what to do in order to inherit Eternal Life.
One may say today; 'i obey the Ten Commandment MASTER JESUS.'
HE will then say the same; "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possession and give to the poor................................, then come and follow me."
Those who continue the discussion about the Ten Commandments show yet imperfection in them as CHRIST have mentioned. They have still not discovered the LORD and CHRIST of the Ten Commandment, the 'Author and Perfecter of our faith' now, builder of the New Covenant for GOD, HIS FATHER. HE is 'The Corner Stone' who called us to perfection. 'The most important stone that the builders rejected', even today.
In GOD's construction to build the New Covennt, the first corner stone that GOD laid is HIS SON for a start and second placed HE the other stones called the Apostles, Prophets and Teachers, in order to abide in HIS SON and with HIS SON and them HE also laid the other stones further in building HIS building called the church).

 

[JaumeJ]

All that you have posted has an appearance of religion. I cannot turn my back to the teachings of Yeshua, nor do I find any desire to teach against any of His laws on moral behavior. Touchy, fuzzy, feels good, Lord Lord, practices are rampant even in the most pious posts.

No man is good, only God is good, but we must strive to perfection that He is working in each of us. To say the commandments are null and void is saying sin has disappeared, and that my friend is a lie. God is good all of the time, and His children look to Him in every regard for their own good behavior.

Knowing Yeshua, we know we are not yet perfected, and all imperfections are forgiven provided we have a true desire to receive forgiveness.

If anyone here is hurting, please, do not use this hurt as some vague reason to push your pain on to others with words that do not avail anyone. Go to the Master, give Him all of your pain, and He will fix every thing, amen.

Peace be with you, perfection is now obeying in the commandment of JESUS and the instructions of HIS chosen Apostles to the churches then and now, fulfilling and completing the New Covenant for the Kingdom of GOD.
HE who just spoke as quoted, saying what to do in order to inherit Eternal Life.
One may say today; 'i obey the Ten Commandment MASTER JESUS.'
HE will then say the same; "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possession and give to the poor................................, then come and follow me."
Those who continue the discussion about the Ten Commandments show yet imperfection in them as CHRIST have mentioned. They have still not discovered the LORD and CHRIST of the Ten Commandment, the 'Author and Perfecter of our faith' now, builder of the New Covenant for GOD, HIS FATHER. HE is 'The Corner Stone' who called us to perfection. 'The most important stone that the builders rejected', even today.
In GOD's construction to build the New Covennt, the first corner stone that GOD laid is HIS SON for a start and second placed HE the other stones called the Apostles, Prophets and Teachers, in order to abide in HIS SON and with HIS SON and them HE also laid the other stones further in building HIS building called the church).

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, i am sad to say that you represent a laid back, lukewarm Christian life, keep on acknowledging lukewarm things and deceiving others who want to excel. i am sorry to also say that you represent a retard or paralyzed limb in the Body of CHRIST.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST have mercy upon you and help you the elect.
As it is written; "Even the very elect shall be deceived." "GOD will send a strong delusion to those who have not welcomed the Gospel, instead of believing in the truth they rather listen to a lie." "Why should we judge outsiders when GOD is their judge, instead judge our own members."

 

[JaumeJ]

Shalom, please note, you have posted something that is not from the Word, for the very elect will not be deceived. Please read just one scripture below on the subject. I have put comparisons also. Yahweh hold you and teach you always so you will be found a good and faithful servant, amen.
Mat 24:24


(ASV)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.


(CEV)
False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones.


(Darby)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.


(DRB)
For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.


(FDB)
Car il s'élèvera de faux christs et de faux prophètes; et ils montreront de grands signes et des prodiges, de manière à séduire, si possible, même les élus.


(FLS)
Car il s'élèvera de faux Christs et de faux prophètes; ils feront de grands prodiges et des miracles, au point de séduire, s'il était possible, même les élus.


(HNT)
כי יקומו משיחי שקר ונביאי שקר ויתנו אתות גדלות ומופתים למען התעות אף את־הבחירים אם־יוכלו׃


(INR)
perché sorgeranno falsi cristi e falsi profeti, e faranno grandi segni e prodigi da sedurre, se fosse possibile, anche gli eletti.


(IRL)
perché sorgeranno falsi cristi e falsi profeti, e faranno gran segni e prodigî da sedurre, se fosse possibile, anche gli eletti.


(ISV)
because false messiahs and false prophets will appear and display great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.


(KJV)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


(KJV+)
For[SUP]G1063 there shall ariseG1453 false Christs,G5580 andG2532 false prophets,G5578 andG2532 shall shewG1325 greatG3173 signsG4592 andG2532 wonders;G5059 insomuch that,G5620 ifG1487 it were possible,G1415 they shall deceiveG4105 theG3588 veryG2532 elect.G1588 [/SUP]
[SUP](ROB)
Căci se vor ridica hristoşi mincinoşi şi prooroci mincinoşi şi vor da semne mari şi chiar minuni, ca să amăgească, de va fi cu putinţă, şi pe cei aleşi.


(SSE)
Porque se levantarán falsos Cristos, y falsos profetas, y darán señales grandes y prodigios; de tal manera que engañarán, si es posible, aun a los escogidos.


(Vulgate)
surgent enim pseudochristi et pseudoprophetae et dabunt signa magna et prodigia ita ut in errorem inducantur si fieri potest etiam electi


(Webster)
For false Christs will arise, and false prophets, and will show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect.


(WNT)
For there will rise up false Christs and false prophets, displaying wonderful signs and prodigies, so as to deceive, were it possible, even God's own People.
[/SUP]

Peace be with you, i am sad to say that you represent a laid back, lukewarm Christian life, keep on acknowledging lukewarm things and deceiving others who want to excel. i am sorry to also say that you represent a retard or paralyzed limb in the Body of CHRIST.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST have mercy upon you and help you the elect.
As it is written; "Even the very elect shall be deceived." "GOD will send a strong delusion to those who have not welcomed the Gospel, instead of believing in the truth they rather listen to a lie." "Why should we judge outsiders when GOD is their judge, instead judge our own members."

 

[Grandpa]

You need to be precise when you say what God is telling us in scripture. Paul fought with the "judaizers" because the Jews felt that the gentiles should worship God as they did. Christian Jews were well aware that Christ died for their sins. For thousands of years people who joined Jews in knowing God had followed them in how they worshipped, they couldn't see why knowing Christ should require them to change, and thought the gentiles should follow them, too. Gentiles were used to pagan worship, and didn't want to take on the ways of the Jews who they thought were rather strange. It had nothing at all to do with whether working saved them or not. That idea came when Paul was explaining why they did not need to worship in the Jewish style. The idea that it is against God to worship as the Jews did is something the church added later, it is not in scripture.

Romans 9:30-33
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?



John 4:23-24

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[john832]

The grace of God given us by His Son dying on the cross is the better 'Way,' but we are still to obey the 10 commandments, silly to think any different, it's just that the 10 are under the One

Good point. If we no longer have the Law to define sin and no longer need to obey, why do we need grace? Better yet, why do we need a Savior? Christ came to save us from the penalty of sin (from being under the authority of the Law to take our life for sin). He paid the price for sin for us, death. Grace is like freedom, it is free, but it sure isn't cheap. It cost the Son of God His life.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The grace of God given us by His Son dying on the cross is the better 'Way,' but we are still to obey the 10 commandments, silly to think any different, it's just that the 10 are under the One

Which means that if you've kept the one, you've kept the 10.

 

[john832]

Which means that if you've kept the one, you've kept the 10.

On this we do agree completely. If we keep the Law of love...

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Then we have kept them all.

 

[Brother_Don]

read Matthew chapter 5, this is in Jesus words, we need to take what Jesus says to heart.