Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

[GodIsSalvation]

Actually lets look at the math:

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

200,000 x 1,000 = 200,000,000 -- Two hundred million.


God bless!

Heh you got to it before I could!

Heh I get your point though and I agree with you. There was never a 200 million man nor a 2 billion man army in Judaea in 1st Century AD. Not until about last century has even the possibility to raise a 200 million man army been possible. Now this shouldn't make anyone panic of course, because even today to raise that kind of army be extremely difficult even for a highly populated country like China or India. However this does indeed prove Revelation is yet to happen and did not happen in 1-100 AD. Good point indeed that I had not considerred before. I just assume since four angels aren't smiting 1/3 of men that be proof Revelation not happen yet, but I like your point too as it is likewise good proofs.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Heh you got to it before I could!

Heh I get your point though and I agree with you. There was never a 200 million man nor a 2 billion man army in Judaea in 1st Century AD. Not until about last century has even the possibility to raise a 200 million man army been possible. Now this shouldn't make anyone panic of course, because even today to raise that kind of army be extremely difficult even for a highly populated country like China or India. However this does indeed prove Revelation is yet to happen and did not happen in 1-100 AD. Good point indeed that I had not considerred before. I just assume since four angels aren't smiting 1/3 of men that be proof Revelation not happen yet, but I like your point too as it is likewise good proofs.

I'll repost the reply I gave to the calculator man and his fuzzy math:

The figure is prophetic hyperbole and figurative and showing that the Jews were outnumbered - John is drawing on Ezekiel:

A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword..

All these came to pass in 70AD.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I'll repost the reply I gave to the calculator man and his fuzzy math:

The scattering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 70 AD, and the regathering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 1948 AD as the prophets prophesied, but the Revelation of John I believe is still yet to come, and may it come to pass when the Lord wills it.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

The scattering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 70 AD, and the regathering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 1948 AD as the prophets prophesied, but the Revelation of John I believe is still yet to come, and may it come to pass when the Lord wills it.

1948 has nothing to do with revelation - what makes you think the state of Israel has anything to do with any prophecy - and I won't be accommodating to the fig tree parable - "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

(Mat 24:32 KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

(Mat 24:33 KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

1948 has nothing to do with revelation - what makes you think the state of Israel has anything to do with any prophecy - and I won't be accommodating to the fig tree parable - "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

(Mat 24:32 KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

(Mat 24:33 KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

1948 has nothing to do with Revelation

Hmm this is tricky to answer. Yes Revelation is not about the regathering of Israel to the land like other prophecies. However because now Israel is regathered to the land, it might just have a lot to do with Revelation by reason that the stage is being set.

What generation is this generation that shall not pass until all things are fulfilled; the Generations living in 100 AD or the Last Generation to come?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yes. so they were not scattered. Which proves ez 37 could not have been fulfilled. the scattering had not even occured yet.

And again, He says they will not commit their abominable sins anymore. this has not happened yet.

Ez says they were returned AFTER they were scattered.

I just wanted to add to this.

Ez 37:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

This has not occured to this day, since the northern kingdom was taken by Syria, or the southern kingdom was taen by babylon. [SUP]



23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

this has not occured either, in fact, this is one of the prophesies paul references in romans 11. when he declares God will turn them from their transgressions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who says? I believe it all belongs together.

Just had to put my digs in

on one aspect it does.

"God did not make a mistake."

but then paul spends three chapters explaining what he meant. the context of chapter 9 is not the same as the context of chapter 11.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A theology that does not recognize the whor.e of revelation as 1st century AD Israel is starting off on the wrong heading

Replacement theology is of satan., Is not from God. And states that God will go back on his promises.

If God goes back on his promises given to one nation, who is to say God will not go back on his promise to us.

If eternal does not mean eternal. we have no hope.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Based on reading the bible without any presuppositions. The book of revelation tell us the timing of the events:

(Rev 1:1 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ...to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass

(Rev 1:3 KJV) .........for the time is at hand.

(Rev 22:6 KJV) ....to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

(Rev 22:10 KJV)...........Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book - for the time is at hand.

To ignore the time statements and the identity of the whor.e is to miss the point of the imminence statements book ending the revelation


I'm not Roman Catholic by the way:

The whor.e of Babylon is NOT the Roman Catholic church, is not the EU, is not the World Wide Council of churches and is not some rebuilt "Babylon" in Iraq.

The book of revelation and various new testament writings all point to 1st century apostate Israel as the whor.e of Babylon.

Rev 18:4 KJV) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Apostate Israel - the persecutor of the saints, the killer of prophets and the Lord Jesus"

(Rev 18:5 KJV) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

(Rev 11:8 KJV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified

Jerusalem is the only place where "our Lord was crucified" - therefore the prophecy is dealing with only that city and apostate Israel that killed him and the prophets.

(1 Th 2:15 KJV) Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

(1 Th 2:16 KJV) Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

(Rev 18:5 KJV) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

(Mat 23:31 KJV) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

(Mat 23:32 KJV) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

All this points to a 1st century "wrath" on Babylon - aka 1st century apostate Israel/Jerusalem.

(Mat 23:37 KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

(Mat 23:38 KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

No other entity can be accused of killing the prophets.

(Mat 23:36 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.



This all came to pass in 70AD.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Rev 17:5 KJV) And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

(Rev 18:21 KJV)...........thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


(Rev 18:23 KJV)............and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee...

So who is this bridegroom and bride?

Rev 21:9 KJV).................I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife...

(Luke 5:35 KJV) But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

It is well known that after the death and resurrection of Jesus that the disciples bore witness to the Jesus in the temple in Israel (aka BABYLON) - James was known to have been a constant witness there.

(Acts 5:42 KJV) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

This was the voice of of the bridegroom and of the bride that would no longer be found in the temple especially after it's destruction in 70AD if not quite some time before.

You have one major flaw.

God said "Behold I come quickly"

Thus, Unlike the title of this thread is seen as Jesus came in 70 AD. to destroy the harlot. and the beast of rome, and end the great tribulation. And set up his kingdom. Quickly does not always mean in our time frame of quick.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I read Revelation without any pre-suppositions. It is clearly about events to come near the end of days. Perhaps they shall pass in my lifetime perhaps centuries after my lifetime. It is pretty clear Revelation have not come to pass yet. Take the destruction of the Whore for example. Jerusalem still stands, for now, but one day that city shall become a great whore of whores and shall be utterly annhilated.

Also I am not a Catholic either btw, nor can I call myself a Protestant either. I merely read the Bible and talk to Christians.

Thats interesting. OT prophets spoke of that great city being restored. The king setting up his throne, And people from all nations of the earth going up oncece a year to pay respect to the king of Kings.

How can this be if Jerusalem is utterly destroyed.

also. in 70 AD, it was utterly destroyed, it was in ashes. Nothing was standing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can you say that revelations have not come to pass?

Because it could not have. to think it has is to spiritualise it. why not take it literally?

Did you receive the holy spirit? Where do you think that is flowing from?

Have you? Although I will not say you have not. I know many born of the spirit who believe as you do (My brother bookends for one) But is that not arrogant to ask if someone is born of the spirit because they believe this way? Kind of rude if you ask me

(John 7:38 KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The living water has been flowing from the tree of life since the fulfillment of the revelation in 70AD and before - do you know of two rivers of life, did one start flowing in the 1st century and then another that starts flowing when the revelation is fulfilled 1980 +years later?

The rivers of living water have been flowing since the day of pentecost. When the HS was given to all who believe.. Why do you not try to study more..

 

[Bookends]

Replacement theology is of satan., Is not from God. And states that God will go back on his promises.

If God goes back on his promises given to one nation, who is to say God will not go back on his promise to us.

If eternal does not mean eternal. we have no hope.

Replacement theology is not replacing the church with earthly Israel?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The whole book of revelation is full of symbols - what you need to do is sort out is what they mean according to prophetic usage - do you really think this is not symbolic?

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This is "apocalyptic" language describing the fall of nations and their powers - in the above case it is speaking of the fall of the 1st century Jewish priesthood, its national polity and power etc.- this language is found in the old testament in describing the fall of nations.

All prophesy is full of symbols which explain literal events, and also include the literal events which are being explained in them. . Why are you trying to make a symbol of the events?

The four beasts were symbols. the things we were told those beasts would do literally came true did they not? (except fore one yet future one)

so why do you think God changed and all of a sudden symbolized everything?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you really think in a modern war they are going to flinging stones weighing a talent around?

I think John saw thins he could not comprehend, and used the language of his day to try to explain them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

I think the same thing about people saying that Matt 24:21-22 couldn't happen until man had Weapons of Mass Destruction. God could destroy the earth anytime He wanted/wants and doesn't need WMD to do it.

true.

But God comes to save the earth, not destroy it. No army or technology in 70 ad could cause the literal ending of live on earth, causing christ to return to stop it. so that whoever endured to the end of those things would be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Replacement theology is not replacing the church with earthly Israel?

no replacement theology is replacing the promises given only to Isreal to the church.

The church is one aspect of the covenant, in you shall all the nations of the world be blessed. this is the church.

The part that says to you I give this land, as an eternal possession. has not been given to the church. It still belongs to Israel. They are not in possession because of lev 26. But one day, as the prophets fortold, they will repent, and be restored. Which Christ as their king. and all the nation will know. That the Lord God is the one and only real God (which was the purpose designed in giving them the land, which has NEVER yet been fulfilled. Because Isreal was continually in sin.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I just wanted to add to this.

Ez 37:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

This has not occured to this day, since the northern kingdom was taken by Syria, or the southern kingdom was taen by babylon. [SUP]



23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

this has not occured either, in fact, this is one of the prophesies paul references in romans 11. when he declares God will turn them from their transgressions.

There is actually a plausible historical fulfillment of this prophecy.

For verse 21 and 23 those could plausibly be fulfilled from Jesus to 1948 AD. Ezekiel be a prophet indeed, but that's not all of the prophecy. However as one can see from the full chapter and then the full book for Ezekiel, I think perhaps we should examine this Prophecy and Ezekiel more fully for better understanding therefore. And good pick of scripture indeed for the discussion brother!

Ezekiel 37 (KJV)


1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is actually a plausible historical fulfillment of this prophecy.

For verse 21 and 23 those could plausibly be fulfilled from Jesus to 1948 AD. Ezekiel be a prophet indeed, but that's not all of the prophecy. However as one can see from the full chapter and then the full book for Ezekiel, I think perhaps we should examine this Prophecy and Ezekiel more fully for better understanding therefore. And good pick of scripture indeed for the discussion brother!

I would not count 1948 as a fulfillment. Maybe a partial one, but even that would be pushing it. They are still in sin. This what Ezek said about this time has not yet occured.

Ezekiel 37 (KJV)

1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

The bolded part definately was not fulfilled in 1948 AD.. the heathen still hates israel..lol And God certainly can not be seen in their midst for the heathen to see.

 

[crossnote]

Because the whole thing is visionary and spoken of in prophetic symbols - do you think the armies of heaven are actually on white horses - or that the beast is a beast or spoken of as a beast?

(Rev 19:15 KJV) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Christ is still yielding the "sharp sword" - which is the gospel in the mouth of his people:

(Heb 4:12 KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There is a mix of symbolic language and literal language within the revelation:

(Rev 18:24 KJV) And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The above is a literal statement as Jesus accused 1st century Israel of being guilty of their blood.

I'll try and get deeper into 19:14 and 19:19 later - it's getting late here and getting close to hitting the sack time.

G'Night folks.

that was a sidestep. I was saying why do they use the word armies in a couple of places and then use locusts to symbolize armies (as you say) in another?

 

[john832]

The scattering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 70 AD, and the regathering of Israel may have been fulfilled in 1948 AD as the prophets prophesied, but the Revelation of John I believe is still yet to come, and may it come to pass when the Lord wills it.

The Scattering occurred in 721BC - 718BC, and the Gathering has yet to occur.

Only Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi came back. The ten Nothern tribes are still the scattered.

They were at the time of James...

Jas 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.

And they did not come back in 1948. The Jews are but one tribe of twelve (actually thirteen) of Israel. To say all Israelites are Jews is to say all Americans are Pennsylvanians.