Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

[GodIsSalvation]

The Scattering occurred in 721BC - 718BC, and the Gathering has yet to occur.

Only Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi came back. The ten Nothern tribes as still the scattered.

Hmm this is also a true possibility worthy of some research. Way I see it Ezekiel 37 cover much of time indeed, and time to come indeed. Even in this chapter are prophecies about the coming of Jesus.

EDIT: In terms of possible historical fulfillment could be argued 1948 AD I was meaning specifically to the quoted verses.

It could also be argued in the guestimated BC when the Jews returned to Zion by permission of Cyrus the Great, though they were still under subjugation, and as well in the Maccabean Revolt, but they were still in technical subjugation to Rome. Only through Jesus shall the enslavement of Israel come to an end. The Gentiles are now joined with Israel, but that of course is a matter of other prophecies.

 

[crossnote]

Let me get this straight Christ came in 70 AD, so now for the past 2000 years we are in the 'millenium' where Christ is ruling and reigning spiritually and that is why we are seeing increased apostasy, increased persecution, increased starvation, increased iniquity,...whew, I am sure glad this is the Millenium. (all tongue in cheek).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me get this straight Christ came in 70 AD, so now for the past 2000 years we are in the 'millenium' where Christ is ruling and reigning spiritually and that is why we are seeing increased apostasy, increased persecution, increased starvation, increased iniquity,...whew, I am sure glad this is the Millenium. (all tongue in cheek).

I guess we can throw the, "he will rule with a rod of iron" out the window if that is what it looks like..

 

[crossnote]

I guess we can throw the, "he will rule with a rod of iron" out the window if that is what it looks like..

OH, you didn't hear? It's spiritual iron...very pliable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OH, you didn't hear? It's spiritual iron...very pliable.

lol, It must be. Poor God. And hey satan is bound remember, so he can not decieve the nations anymore..

Oh wait. What about Hitler. And Stalin, And these arab nations doing satans work because they were decieved by him.. Guess God did not tie the ropes tight enough, Satan must have gotten free

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Let me get this straight Christ came in 70 AD, so now for the past 2000 years we are in the 'millenium' where Christ is ruling and reigning spiritually and that is why we are seeing increased apostasy, increased persecution, increased starvation, increased iniquity,...whew, I am sure glad this is the Millenium. (all tongue in cheek).

No obviously not as the signs prior to the Millenial Reign have not yet passed.

What I am saying is for the parts pertaining to Israel explicitly look at Israel. For this we also do have to go to other prophecies and prophets. Consider the prophesied kingdoms of Daniel. Jesus Kingdom crushing the World Kingdom is what I believe Revelation is about as a whole book. Specifically in regards to the Kingdom of Clay and Iron in Daniel 2.


Daniel 2

1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, The thing is gone from me: if ye will not make known unto me the dream, with the interpretation thereof, ye shall be cut in pieces, and your houses shall be made a dunghill.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if ye shew the dream, and the interpretation thereof, ye shall receive of me gifts and rewards and great honour: therefore shew me the dream, and the interpretation thereof.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]They answered again and said, Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation of it.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The king answered and said, I know of certainty that ye would gain the time, because ye see the thing is gone from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if ye will not make known unto me the dream, there is but one decree for you: for ye have prepared lying and corrupt words to speak before me, till the time be changed: therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that ye can shew me the interpretation thereof.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The Chaldeans answered before the king, and said, There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter: therefore there is no king, lord, nor ruler, that asked such things at any magician, or astrologer, or Chaldean.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For this cause the king was angry and very furious, and commanded to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
[SUP]33 [/SUP]His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

 

[Timeline]

I just wanted to add to this.

Ez 37:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

This has not occured to this day, since the northern kingdom was taken by Syria, or the southern kingdom was taen by babylon. [SUP]



23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

this has not occured either, in fact, this is one of the prophesies paul references in romans 11. when he declares God will turn them from their transgressions.

Maybe try reading it this way, "I will take from the nations and make them children of Israel, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own; and I will make them one nation on the earth, through what was established in the Old Testament and fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and Jesus shall be King over the ALL; Israel will no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again (Because they (Christians) are made one in Jesus Christ).


Israel means "to struggle with God" as in "we are in "it" with God, for better or worse - Always striving to understand and please Him. Israel was restored in Jesus as the Church. The church is the New Jerusalem (Holy City) and is not confined to a location. Nor is anyone a Christian because they says they are, Neither are they not a Christian because someone else says they are not.

Revelation 21:27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is kind of funny because this seems to go along with what you and dc say, that God knows if you are pure hearted or not so you can't loose your salvation, because God won't let you "in" if you are not sincere. The church is not a building and you are not a member just because your name is in the directory. The New Jerusalem is the church and God decides who is in it, not us.

 

[Timeline]

Maybe try reading it this way, "I will take from the nations and make them children of Israel, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own; and I will make them one nation on the earth, through what was established in the Old Testament and fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and Jesus shall be King over the ALL; Israel will no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again (Because they (Christians) are made one in Jesus Christ).


Israel means "to struggle with God" as in "we are in "it" with God, for better or worse - Always striving to understand and please Him. Israel was restored in Jesus as the Church. The church is the New Jerusalem (Holy City) and is not confined to a location. Nor is anyone a Christian because they says they are, Neither are they not a Christian because someone else says they are not.

Revelation 21:27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is kind of funny because this seems to go along with what you and dc say, that God knows if you are pure hearted or not so you can't loose your salvation, because God won't let you "in" if you are not sincere. The church is not a building and you are not a member just because your name is in the directory. The New Jerusalem is the church and God decides who is in it, not us.

Don't hit me.

Regardless if I am wrong, or it is you who is wrong, or if both of us are wrong -We are saved in Jesus Christ and while I do believe that prophecy was placed in the bible for a reason, I don't think we will be condemned if we are wrong as long as we accept Jesus Christ.

 

[Timeline]

Maybe try reading it this way, "I will take from the nations and make them children of Israel, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own; and I will make them one nation on the earth, through what was established in the Old Testament and fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and Jesus shall be King over the ALL; Israel will no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again (Because they (Christians) are made one in Jesus Christ).


Israel means "to struggle with God" as in "we are in "it" with God, for better or worse - Always striving to understand and please Him. Israel was restored in Jesus as the Church. The church is the New Jerusalem (Holy City) and is not confined to a location. Nor is anyone a Christian because they says they are, Neither are they not a Christian because someone else says they are not.

Revelation 21:27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is kind of funny because this seems to go along with what you and dc say, that God knows if you are pure hearted or not so you can't loose your salvation, because God won't let you "in" if you are not sincere. The church is not a building and you are not a member just because your name is in the directory. The New Jerusalem is the church and God decides who is in it, not us.

That (not us) doesn't mean either one of us aren't saved, it means that we don't decide. I read it a few minutes after I posted and thought it to be less clear than I did when I wrote it.

 

[Timeline]

Maybe try reading it this way, "I will take from the nations and make them children of Israel, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own; and I will make them one nation on the earth, through what was established in the Old Testament and fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and Jesus shall be King over the ALL; Israel will no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again (Because they (Christians) are made one in Jesus Christ).


Israel means "to struggle with God" as in "we are in "it" with God, for better or worse - Always striving to understand and please Him. Israel was restored in Jesus as the Church. The church is the New Jerusalem (Holy City) and is not confined to a location. Nor is anyone a Christian because they says they are, Neither are they not a Christian because someone else says they are not.

Revelation 21:27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is kind of funny because this seems to go along with what you and dc say, that God knows if you are pure hearted or not so you can't loose your salvation, because God won't let you "in" if you are not sincere. The church is not a building and you are not a member just because your name is in the directory. The New Jerusalem is the church and God decides who is in it, not us.

Maybe that's not what it means here. But what I wrote has already happened.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe try reading it this way, "I will take from the nations and make them children of Israel,

I would but I would have to change the words, change the meaning of the verse, and twist what it actually says.

wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own; and I will make them one nation on the earth, through what was established in the Old Testament and fulfilled in Jesus Christ; and Jesus shall be King over the ALL; Israel will no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again (Because they (Christians) are made one in Jesus Christ).

The nations were not scattered because of their sin.
the nations were not taken from their land because of their sin
the nations were not punished for their sin by taking what was given to them, and giving it to someone else.

Sorry bro. But this is one of the worst twisting of scripture I have ever seen, it destroys context. Changes the meaning of the words of GOD himself. and I could go on and on

Israel means "to struggle with God" as in "we are in "it" with God, for better or worse - Always striving to understand and please Him. Israel was restored in Jesus as the Church. The church is the New Jerusalem (Holy City) and is not confined to a location. Nor is anyone a Christian because they says they are, Neither are they not a Christian because someone else says they are not.

Israel is still scattered for her sin. The church was never promised any land, And it is not new jerusalem, which will not ocme down until this heaven and earth are destroyed.

Not only do you have your prophesies in error. But you have this in error.

Revelation 21:27

and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This is kind of funny because this seems to go along with what you and dc say, that God knows if you are pure hearted or not so you can't loose your salvation, because God won't let you "in" if you are not sincere. The church is not a building and you are not a member just because your name is in the directory. The New Jerusalem is the church and God decides who is in it, not us.

Yes God does decide who is in it. And when they will be entered in, it will be the ressurected church in it, Not fleshly church on this earth tained by sin.

This is what I mean about the danger of spiritualizing prophesy, and not taking it literally.

The symbol were the two sticks and the dry bones.

the literal things were two nations being made one again (restoration)

 

[Timeline]

The nations were not scattered because of their sin.
the nations were not taken from their land because of their sin
the nations were not punished for their sin by taking what was given to them, and giving it to someone else.

Sorry bro. But this is one of the worst twisting of scripture I have ever seen, it destroys context. Changes the meaning of the words of GOD himself. and I could go on and on




Israel is still scattered for her sin. The church was never promised any land, And it is not new jerusalem, which will not ocme down until this heaven and earth are destroyed.

Not only do you have your prophesies in error. But you have this in error.



Yes God does decide who is in it. And when they will be entered in, it will be the ressurected church in it, Not fleshly church on this earth tained by sin.

This is what I mean about the danger of spiritualizing prophesy, and not taking it literally.

The symbol were the two sticks and the dry bones.

the literal things were two nations being made one again (restoration)

Hebrews 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't hit me.

Regardless if I am wrong, or it is you who is wrong, or if both of us are wrong -We are saved in Jesus Christ and while I do believe that prophecy was placed in the bible for a reason, I don't think we will be condemned if we are wrong as long as we accept Jesus Christ.

Amen bro. of this we agree

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

Tell me

would your rather have the land today called Israel, or the spiritual land in heaven?

They, as well as me, would rather have the heavenly.

But it does not mean God still did not give them the physical. As an ETERNAL inheritance.

 

[Timeline]

The church is Literal. It is here and it is holy. As long as we are in the flesh we are not perfect. But we are perfected in Jesus. You seem to think that there was no prophecy regarding the establishment of the Church and everything has to do with fleshly Israel...but this is not true.

 

[Bookends]

no replacement theology is replacing the promises given only to Isreal to the church.

The church is one aspect of the covenant, in you shall all the nations of the world be blessed. this is the church.

The part that says to you I give this land, as an eternal possession. has not been given to the church. It still belongs to Israel. They are not in possession because of lev 26. But one day, as the prophets fortold, they will repent, and be restored. Which Christ as their king. and all the nation will know. That the Lord God is the one and only real God (which was the purpose designed in giving them the land, which has NEVER yet been fulfilled. Because Isreal was continually in sin.

No all the land promises give to Israel had a condition. The promises that are eternal are to His Children. But it's not up to me to open spiritually blind eyes. And if me who has the spiritually blind eyes, then I ask the Lord to open them.

 

[endtimes]

No I'm not you are pasting assumptions that never originated from my keyboard.

The figure is prophetic hyperbole and figurative and showing that the Jews were outnumbered - John is drawing on Ezekiel:

A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword..

All these came to pass in 70AD.

Now you are on record that your post did not come from your own keyboard. Well now, lets just have a look at what did come from your keyboard. You wrote...

There is no war that kills a third of the planet - only a third of the people that lived in 1st century AD Judea:

(Rev 9:14 KJV) Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

(Rev 9:15 KJV) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

It was YOU and your own keyboard that gave the Rev 9:14-15 scripture.

I then said to continue reading the next verse (which you conveniently left out), which says...

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.


Which, puts an end to your erroneously asserted fulfillment prophecy, with genuine hope that you will re-examine your views.


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God bless!

 

[Timeline]

Tell me

would your rather have the land today called Israel, or the spiritual land in heaven?

They, as well as me, would rather have the heavenly.

But it does not mean God still did not give them the physical. As an ETERNAL inheritance.

Are you JW?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The church is Literal. It is here and it is holy. As long as we are in the flesh we are not perfect. But we are perfected in Jesus. You seem to think that there was no prophecy regarding the establishment of the Church and everything has to do with fleshly Israel...but this is not true.

your right it is not true..

all over the OT are prophesies concerning the gentiles and jews being made one, and the church being established.

what you have to do is differentiate these salvic prophesies, from restoration and punishment prophesies concerning the nation of Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No all the land promises give to Israel had a condition.

when God gave them to abraham there was no condition.

he said "I will" he did not say " I will if you do this as a condition"

the condition was given 400 years later. and not as to if the land is theres or not. but if they occupied what was rightfully theirs or not.

The promises that are eternal are to His Children. But it's not up to me to open spiritually blind eyes. And if me who has the spiritually blind eyes, then I ask the Lord to open them.

true.. and as paul said in romans 11,, Israel are our enemy concerning the prophesy, but beloved because of the election. how can one be chosen and be an enemy at the same time, unless God chose them for some reason as a group.

as paul said, the GIFTS and CALLING of God are irrevocable.

the land was a gift to Israel, and he called them to that land for a specific purpose. which he reiterates in ez 37:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”

I find it interesting the word nation means gentiles. Or heathen people. Yes the church is in all nations today, but the nations themselves are still heathen. Even the US being supposedly a christian nation is a heathen nation look at all its sins.