Do we know how Yeshua lived his life?

[homwardbound]

To each thier own, you go, have a great life. We do not see what each other says, standing in trust to God Father of it all in Yeshua, my savior unto Father Yahweh as is done by Son for us all to trust and be new and not harm others.
I agree to disagree, not understanding your motive(s) nor you understanding my motives.
Amen as God leads not me

 

[Rainrider]

doesn't the Torah condemn a man on the testimony of two or three witnesses - who are also men?

i don't think it is that they were blaspheming by saying a man was a sinner - they were blaspheming because they knew Jesus Christ was the Messiah, and they were willfully rejecting Him. they understood how to interpret the signs He gave them, but made themselves blind to them - while saying. "we see"

and so their hearts were darkened and they puffed themselves up with pride, until they could no longer see at all.

The Torah does say we are to judge your right. However it never gives us the right to condemn anyone on what we think as they were doing. Now I ask you this, what do the actions and thoughts of the Pharisees have to do with the life, teachings, and faith of Yeshua?
As for being angry, you have never seen me angry, and are doing the same thing as the Pharisees. So again, this isn't about them, it is about Yeshua. Thanks you for trying so hard to change the topic, now I am going to get back to the REAL reason I open this thread.
Oh before you say Torah does say to condemn, keep in mind, if a person isn't trust worthy, their testimony is to rejected. In the case of the Pharisees, their testimony in this case comes from one trying to hold on what conseived power they think they have. There for their testimony holds no authority.

 

[Rainrider]

Jhn 11:1A man named Lazarus was sick. He lived in Bethany with his sisters, Mary and Martha.
Jhn 11:2This is the Mary who later poured the expensive perfume on the Lord's feet and wiped them with her hair. Her brother, Lazarus, was sick.
Jhn 11:3So the two sisters sent a message to Jesus telling him, "Lord, your dear friend is very sick."
Jhn 11:4But when Jesus heard about it he said, "Lazarus's sickness will not end in death. No, it happened for the glory of God so that the Son of God will receive glory from this."
Jhn 11:5So although Jesus loved Martha, Mary, and Lazarus,
Jhn 11:6he stayed where he was for the next two days.
Jhn 11:7Finally, he said to his disciples, "Let's go back to Judea."

Some have used verse 4 to try and show that Yeshua was wrong, after all lazraus did die. Was that the end? As we willl see in a bit no that wasn't the end of the story.

Jhn 11:8But his disciples objected. "Rabbi," they said, "only a few days ago the people in Judea were trying to stone you. Are you going there again?"
Jhn 11:9Jesus replied, "There are twelve hours of daylight every day. During the day people can walk safely. They can see because they have the light of this world.
Jhn 11:10But at night there is danger of stumbling because they have no light."

Though it is true that not every day has 12 hours of daylight, and this has also been used to try to discredet the Word. We must keep in mind not every thing in the Word is ment to be taken literally. The point Yeshua was making is that we face danger in many of the actions we take in life. As anyone that has lived 20 years or longer understands, life is full of challenges, danger, and other hard ships. We face them as they come, and should never run from them. If we walk in faithfulness, and obedience, HaShem will protect us, guide us, and make sure we have all we need. He is not obligated to meet our wants.
Also we should make note that here we are also being told not to do things we know are not in our best interest. Like walking around in the dark, with no way to see what is in our path.

Jhn 11:11Then he said, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up."

As we should know, the Word uses the phrase sleep with our fathers to denote death.

Jhn 11:12The disciples said, "Lord, if he is sleeping, he will soon get better!"

Yet for some reason the disciples didn't get it.

Jhn 11:13They thought Jesus meant Lazarus was simply sleeping, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died.

Jhn 11:14So he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.

 

[posthuman]

The Torah does say we are to judge your right. However it never gives us the right to condemn anyone on what we think as they were doing. Now I ask you this, what do the actions and thoughts of the Pharisees have to do with the life, teachings, and faith of Yeshua?
As for being angry, you have never seen me angry, and are doing the same thing as the Pharisees. So again, this isn't about them, it is about Yeshua. Thanks you for trying so hard to change the topic, now I am going to get back to the REAL reason I open this thread.
Oh before you say Torah does say to condemn, keep in mind, if a person isn't trust worthy, their testimony is to rejected. In the case of the Pharisees, their testimony in this case comes from one trying to hold on what conseived power they think they have. There for their testimony holds no authority.

so we are agreed, the Torah does command the ascribing of guilt/sin to someone on the testimony of two or three human witnesses - therefore you agree it is an incorrect statement to say someone is guilty of blasphemy if they call a man a sinner.

this is the case in an objective, abstract sense - your argument was faulty.

the case with Christ however is not that they condemned Him by saying He is a sinner, but something far worse.

to understand this you need to remember what sin they were ascribing to Him: the one He was accused of when Satan/Judas delivered Him to the sanhedrin. that sinwas blasphemy: they accused Him of claiming to be the Son of God, to be equal to God. which is not a false accusation in itself, but their argument was that He is not in fact equally God, that He is not Messiah.

so they are not condemning Him as a sinner ((there is no difference between calling someone guilty and condemning them)) - they are refusing to accept the testimony of the signs they received.

the conversation in John 9 is in this context, that the ultra-orthodox, ultra-Torah observant, ultra-knowledgeable Jews had seen everything they needed and far more to know Who Christ is, but they refused to accept it. so Christ sent an uneducated blind man to them to teach them to see and to know, and they absolutely despised it, taking great offense, thinking the man was "changing the subject" from the very important thing they were trying to do: to crucify the Son of God.

John 9:34​

They answered and said to him, ​

"You were completely born in sins, ​

and are you teaching us?" ​

And they cast him out.​

 

[Rainrider]

so we are agreed, the Torah does command the ascribing of guilt/sin to someone on the testimony of two or three human witnesses - therefore you agree it is an incorrect statement to say someone is guilty of blasphemy if they call a man a sinner.

this is the case in an objective, abstract sense - your argument was faulty.

the case with Christ however is not that they condemned Him by saying He is a sinner, but something far worse.

to understand this you need to remember what sin they were ascribing to Him: the one He was accused of when Satan/Judas delivered Him to the sanhedrin. that sinwas blasphemy: they accused Him of claiming to be the Son of God, to be equal to God. which is not a false accusation in itself, but their argument was that He is not in fact equally God, that He is not Messiah.

so they are not condemning Him as a sinner ((there is no difference between calling someone guilty and condemning them)) - they are refusing to accept the testimony of the signs they received.

the conversation in John 9 is in this context, that the ultra-orthodox, ultra-Torah observant, ultra-knowledgeable Jews had seen everything they needed and far more to know Who Christ is, but they refused to accept it. so Christ sent an uneducated blind man to them to teach them to see and to know, and they absolutely despised it, taking great offense, thinking the man was "changing the subject" from the very important thing they were trying to do: to crucify the Son of God.

John 9:34​

They answered and said to him, ​

"You were completely born in sins, ​

and are you teaching us?" ​

And they cast him out.​

In Torah a judge has the right to pass judgment. After a trial. Then a sentence is passed down. Note that it is a judge.
If you note, no judge was mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the odds are one was there. However it was not a judge rather the people, standing in judgment. Again, still ok in Torah for some things. However, for a high crime, as in this case, one must be taken to face the Sanhidren.
When they had on conviction, yet called for a sentence they had no right to pass down. Then it became condemnation, not judgment. So yes, I stand by our understanding. Until some one with a better understanding comes along. Only HaShem can condemn anyone.

 

[tribesman]

Do we know how Yeshua lived his life?

A perfect sinless life.