Do we stress baptism enough?
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This is your quote to me on page 15--Post 298 -----
Nothing about water baptism here in what you say ---you just quote Baptism ------no baptism will take away sins ------and that is according to scripture ---only the Blood of Jesus can take away sins ------there are 2 types of baptism ----one was for repentance water Baptism and was was with the Holy Spirit and neither can take away sins ------the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes upon us at our conversion ---our sins have already been forgiven when we receive Jesus in our hearts ------
That is why I posted what John the Baptise said -------as it gives you the 2 Baptisms mentioned in scripture ------
If you and others want to argue about who or what forgives sins ----that you do that but for me --I will stick with what Scripture says ------about how sins are forgiven ------not one word in this scripture that says water baptism or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit takes away sins -----
Hebrews 9------here is the easy to read version
Hebrews 9
Easy-to-Read Version
Worship Under the Old Agreement
9 The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth. 2 This place was inside a tent. The first area in the tent was called the Holy Place. In the Holy Place were the lamp and the table with the special bread offered to God. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place. 4 In the Most Holy Place was a golden altar for burning incense. And also there was the Box of the Agreement. The Box was covered with gold. Inside this Box was a golden jar of manna and Aaron’s rod—the rod that once grew leaves. Also in the Box were the flat stones with the Ten Commandments of the old agreement on them. 5 Above the Box were the Cherub angels that showed God’s glory. These Cherub angels were over the place of mercy.[a] But we cannot say everything about this now.
6 Everything in the tent was made ready in the way I have explained. Then the priests went into the first room every day to do their worship duties.
7 But only the high priest could go into the second room, and he went in only once a year.
Also, he could never enter that room without taking blood with him.
He offered that blood to God for himself and for the sins the people committed without knowing they were sinning.
8 The Holy Spirit uses those two separate rooms to teach us that the way into the Most Holy Place[b] was not open while the first room was still there.
9a This is an example for us today. It shows that the gifts and sacrifices the priests offer to God are not able to make the consciences of the worshipers completely clear. 10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Worship Under the New Agreement
11 But Christ has already come to be the high priest. He is the high priest of the good things we now have. But Christ does not serve in a place like the tent that those other priests served in. He serves in a better place. Unlike that tent, this one is perfect. It was not made by anyone here on earth. It does not belong to this world.
12 Christ entered the Most Holy Place only one time—enough for all time. He entered the Most Holy Place by using his own blood, not the blood of goats or young bulls. He entered there and made us free from sin forever.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a cow were sprinkled on those who were no longer pure enough to enter the place of worship. The blood and ashes made them pure again—but only their bodies.
14 So surely the blood sacrifice of Christ can do much more. Christ offered himself through the eternal Spirit[c] as a perfect sacrifice to God. His blood will make us completely clean from the evil we have done. It will give us clear consciences so that we can worship the living God.
15 So Christ brings a new agreement from God to his people. He brings this agreement so that those who are chosen by God can have the blessings God promised, blessings that last forever.
This can happen only because Christ died to free people from sins committed against the commands of the first agreement.
16 When someone dies and leaves a will, there must be proof that the one who wrote the will is dead. 17 A will means nothing while the one who wrote it is still living. It can be used only after that person’s death.
18 That is why blood was needed to begin the first agreement between God and his people.
19 First, Moses told the people every command in the law. Then he took the blood of young bulls and mixed it with water. He used red wool and a branch of hyssop to sprinkle the blood and water on the book of the law and on all the people. 20 Then he said, “This is the blood that makes the agreement good—the agreement that God commanded you to follow.”[d] 21 In the same way, Moses sprinkled the blood on the Holy Tent. He sprinkled the blood over everything used in worship. 22 The law says that almost everything must be made clean by blood. Sins cannot be forgiven without a blood sacrifice.
Jesus Christ Is Our Sacrifice for Sin
23 These things are copies of the real things that are in heaven. These copies had to be made clean by animal sacrifices. But the real things in heaven must have much better sacrifices. 24 Christ went into the Most Holy Place. But it was not the man-made one, which is only a copy of the real one. He went into heaven, and he is there now before God to help us.
25 The high priest enters the Most Holy Place once every year. He takes with him blood to offer. But he does not offer his own blood like Christ did. Christ went into heaven, but not to offer himself many times like the high priest offers blood again and again. 26 If Christ had offered himself many times, he would have needed to suffer many times since the time the world was made. But he came to offer himself only once. And that once is enough for all time. He came at a time when the world is nearing an end. He came to take away all sin by offering himself as a sacrifice.
I say -----Now you show me where Water baptism is mentioned here that takes away your sins -------or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for that matter ----only blood mentioned here to take away sins -----
So believe as you want ---water Baptism took away your sins --good for you ---it didn't take my sins away ---the blood of Jesus took my sins away ---and I got dunked to show my outward expression of my inward faith ------
If I did it wrong then God will let me know ---on the other side -----but scripture seems to be quite clear in both the Old Testament and the New Testament ---shed blood is needed to deal with sin ----not water ----
So
Nothing about water baptism here in what you say ---you just quote Baptism ------no baptism will take away sins ------and that is according to scripture ---only the Blood of Jesus can take away sins ------there are 2 types of baptism ----one was for repentance water Baptism and was was with the Holy Spirit and neither can take away sins ------the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes upon us at our conversion ---our sins have already been forgiven when we receive Jesus in our hearts ------
That is why I posted what John the Baptise said -------as it gives you the 2 Baptisms mentioned in scripture ------
If you and others want to argue about who or what forgives sins ----that you do that but for me --I will stick with what Scripture says ------about how sins are forgiven ------not one word in this scripture that says water baptism or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit takes away sins -----
Hebrews 9------here is the easy to read version
Hebrews 9
Easy-to-Read Version
Worship Under the Old Agreement
9 The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth. 2 This place was inside a tent. The first area in the tent was called the Holy Place. In the Holy Place were the lamp and the table with the special bread offered to God. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place. 4 In the Most Holy Place was a golden altar for burning incense. And also there was the Box of the Agreement. The Box was covered with gold. Inside this Box was a golden jar of manna and Aaron’s rod—the rod that once grew leaves. Also in the Box were the flat stones with the Ten Commandments of the old agreement on them. 5 Above the Box were the Cherub angels that showed God’s glory. These Cherub angels were over the place of mercy.[a] But we cannot say everything about this now.
6 Everything in the tent was made ready in the way I have explained. Then the priests went into the first room every day to do their worship duties.
7 But only the high priest could go into the second room, and he went in only once a year.
Also, he could never enter that room without taking blood with him.
He offered that blood to God for himself and for the sins the people committed without knowing they were sinning.
8 The Holy Spirit uses those two separate rooms to teach us that the way into the Most Holy Place[b] was not open while the first room was still there.
9a This is an example for us today. It shows that the gifts and sacrifices the priests offer to God are not able to make the consciences of the worshipers completely clear. 10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Worship Under the New Agreement
11 But Christ has already come to be the high priest. He is the high priest of the good things we now have. But Christ does not serve in a place like the tent that those other priests served in. He serves in a better place. Unlike that tent, this one is perfect. It was not made by anyone here on earth. It does not belong to this world.
12 Christ entered the Most Holy Place only one time—enough for all time. He entered the Most Holy Place by using his own blood, not the blood of goats or young bulls. He entered there and made us free from sin forever.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a cow were sprinkled on those who were no longer pure enough to enter the place of worship. The blood and ashes made them pure again—but only their bodies.
14 So surely the blood sacrifice of Christ can do much more. Christ offered himself through the eternal Spirit[c] as a perfect sacrifice to God. His blood will make us completely clean from the evil we have done. It will give us clear consciences so that we can worship the living God.
15 So Christ brings a new agreement from God to his people. He brings this agreement so that those who are chosen by God can have the blessings God promised, blessings that last forever.
This can happen only because Christ died to free people from sins committed against the commands of the first agreement.
16 When someone dies and leaves a will, there must be proof that the one who wrote the will is dead. 17 A will means nothing while the one who wrote it is still living. It can be used only after that person’s death.
18 That is why blood was needed to begin the first agreement between God and his people.
19 First, Moses told the people every command in the law. Then he took the blood of young bulls and mixed it with water. He used red wool and a branch of hyssop to sprinkle the blood and water on the book of the law and on all the people. 20 Then he said, “This is the blood that makes the agreement good—the agreement that God commanded you to follow.”[d] 21 In the same way, Moses sprinkled the blood on the Holy Tent. He sprinkled the blood over everything used in worship. 22 The law says that almost everything must be made clean by blood. Sins cannot be forgiven without a blood sacrifice.
Jesus Christ Is Our Sacrifice for Sin
23 These things are copies of the real things that are in heaven. These copies had to be made clean by animal sacrifices. But the real things in heaven must have much better sacrifices. 24 Christ went into the Most Holy Place. But it was not the man-made one, which is only a copy of the real one. He went into heaven, and he is there now before God to help us.
25 The high priest enters the Most Holy Place once every year. He takes with him blood to offer. But he does not offer his own blood like Christ did. Christ went into heaven, but not to offer himself many times like the high priest offers blood again and again. 26 If Christ had offered himself many times, he would have needed to suffer many times since the time the world was made. But he came to offer himself only once. And that once is enough for all time. He came at a time when the world is nearing an end. He came to take away all sin by offering himself as a sacrifice.
I say -----Now you show me where Water baptism is mentioned here that takes away your sins -------or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for that matter ----only blood mentioned here to take away sins -----
So believe as you want ---water Baptism took away your sins --good for you ---it didn't take my sins away ---the blood of Jesus took my sins away ---and I got dunked to show my outward expression of my inward faith ------
If I did it wrong then God will let me know ---on the other side -----but scripture seems to be quite clear in both the Old Testament and the New Testament ---shed blood is needed to deal with sin ----not water ----
So
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We must be careful we do not get too pedantic about baptism. I was saved whilst attending a Baptist church so of course I was baptised the Baptist way.
Many years later I learn't a different meaning to baptism when attending a charismatic Brethren Church and decided to be baptised again because of what I had learn't. No one asked me to be or forced me to be. It was a personal choice.
As I understand baptism, salvation is getting rid of the old man and baptism is putting on the new. I know not everyone will agree with me, but that is how I understand it.
Originally I was taught you get baptised by immersion in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. When I studied the scriptures later I wanted to know why the New Testament did not do this. I was taught at Bible College that you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture. But that is what has happened with baptism. Matthew 28.
Apart from that one verse, there is not another one that says that. So what do all the others say? Baptise in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. So which is right? If you believe that you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture, you can't build a doctrine of baptism on Matthew 28.
What does it matter which name you are baptised into? That again is for you to decide whether you go by the evidence of scripture and scriptural exegesis or you decide on one verse.
The only thing I am pedantic about is that sprinkling of babies is not baptism.
Many years later I learn't a different meaning to baptism when attending a charismatic Brethren Church and decided to be baptised again because of what I had learn't. No one asked me to be or forced me to be. It was a personal choice.
As I understand baptism, salvation is getting rid of the old man and baptism is putting on the new. I know not everyone will agree with me, but that is how I understand it.
Originally I was taught you get baptised by immersion in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. When I studied the scriptures later I wanted to know why the New Testament did not do this. I was taught at Bible College that you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture. But that is what has happened with baptism. Matthew 28.
Apart from that one verse, there is not another one that says that. So what do all the others say? Baptise in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. So which is right? If you believe that you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture, you can't build a doctrine of baptism on Matthew 28.
What does it matter which name you are baptised into? That again is for you to decide whether you go by the evidence of scripture and scriptural exegesis or you decide on one verse.
The only thing I am pedantic about is that sprinkling of babies is not baptism.
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Precious friend, do you believe "God Is Pedantic (Precise)" when He Teaches,
Today, Under His GRACE, There Is Only ONE Baptism?
If He is "not Pedantic," then is it ok for "the church" to teach two baptisms,
Even though the Many (Different denominations) disagree about water?
If this is ok, then what should we do with 1 Corinthians 1:9-10 and Ephesians 4:3-6?
If we are "Not too pedantic" should we just ignore these and think "all is ok"?
Just wondering...
GRACE And Peace...
Today, Under His GRACE, There Is Only ONE Baptism?
If He is "not Pedantic," then is it ok for "the church" to teach two baptisms,
Even though the Many (Different denominations) disagree about water?
If this is ok, then what should we do with 1 Corinthians 1:9-10 and Ephesians 4:3-6?
If we are "Not too pedantic" should we just ignore these and think "all is ok"?
Just wondering...
GRACE And Peace...
Jesus is the name of the father son and Holy Ghost together in one
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
The importance of his name is this
“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
Jesus is unique in that the father in heaven , the son of God , and the holy spirit are in one, bodily. He is God fully expressed to Man and made his name known to us.
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9 KJV
“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
2 Corinthians 3:17 KJV
If you think of it it says “ baptize them in the name of ( the father son and Holy Ghost ) but none of those are names they are titles and exist in one name , Jesus.
this is why you don’t find any verses where anyone was baptized that way but they all say baptized in the name of Jesus instead.
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; …..And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 3, 14 KJV
they are one father son and Holy Ghost Jesus is the name.
all that said I don’t believe God is going to cast anyone away because they were baptized “in the name of the father son and Holy Ghost “
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
The importance of his name is this
“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
Jesus is unique in that the father in heaven , the son of God , and the holy spirit are in one, bodily. He is God fully expressed to Man and made his name known to us.
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9 KJV
“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
2 Corinthians 3:17 KJV
If you think of it it says “ baptize them in the name of ( the father son and Holy Ghost ) but none of those are names they are titles and exist in one name , Jesus.
this is why you don’t find any verses where anyone was baptized that way but they all say baptized in the name of Jesus instead.
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; …..And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 3, 14 KJV
they are one father son and Holy Ghost Jesus is the name.
all that said I don’t believe God is going to cast anyone away because they were baptized “in the name of the father son and Holy Ghost “
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I can not comprehend how anyone can think a pastor immersing a person in water is more powerful that God himself immersing us into Christ.
Sadly it reminds me fully of a jew demanding circumcision for salvation. Satan just plants a thought and it becomes a doctrine which turns people from God.
Sadly it reminds me fully of a jew demanding circumcision for salvation. Satan just plants a thought and it becomes a doctrine which turns people from God.
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Wrong.
You need to read scriptures relating to
Because the Bible says ...who's name we must be baptized into.........The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit............
In 2022 era we can not follow denominations...we MUST follow the Bible.
I, for one, will not hand over my opportunity for eternal salvation to anyone/denomination as we see here with faulty interpretations of scriptures. The Bible warns us....do not allow anyone to rob you of your crowns. Further, it tells us.....we are responsible for proper interpretation of the Bible.
You need to read scriptures relating to
Because the Bible says ...who's name we must be baptized into.........The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit............
In 2022 era we can not follow denominations...we MUST follow the Bible.
I, for one, will not hand over my opportunity for eternal salvation to anyone/denomination as we see here with faulty interpretations of scriptures. The Bible warns us....do not allow anyone to rob you of your crowns. Further, it tells us.....we are responsible for proper interpretation of the Bible.
The reconciliation has Already Been Accomplished On The Cross.
Thus, the requirements of the Gospel Of GRACE are repentance and
faith In Christ, His Death (Shed BLOOD), Burial, And Resurrection, According
To The Scriptures (1Co 15:3-4), Apart from ALL works (Eph 2:8-9; Tit 3:5).
GRACE Salvation Into The ONE Body Of CHRIST, Is:
Rightly Divided * (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The why of water baptism, under law, Is for Israel, for the remission
of sins, and, FurtherMore, for induction into the Israeli priesthood
( see #'s 4, 9, & 10 of 12 baptisms).
-------------------------------------------
Conclusion? water baptism (works) must not be Added to
God's ONE Baptism for The Body Of CHRIST, men Changing
(blasphemy? of) God's Word, to two, because Of Cancellation:
GRACE And Peace...
Thus, the requirements of the Gospel Of GRACE are repentance and
faith In Christ, His Death (Shed BLOOD), Burial, And Resurrection, According
To The Scriptures (1Co 15:3-4), Apart from ALL works (Eph 2:8-9; Tit 3:5).
GRACE Salvation Into The ONE Body Of CHRIST, Is:
Rightly Divided * (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The why of water baptism, under law, Is for Israel, for the remission
of sins, and, FurtherMore, for induction into the Israeli priesthood
( see #'s 4, 9, & 10 of 12 baptisms).
-------------------------------------------
Conclusion? water baptism (works) must not be Added to
God's ONE Baptism for The Body Of CHRIST, men Changing
(blasphemy? of) God's Word, to two, because Of Cancellation:
"And if By GRACE, then is it no more of works: otherwise
GRACE is no more GRACE. But if it be of works, then is it
no more GRACE: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)
+
"All the law Is Fulfilled In ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor"
* More Right Division here: law/prophecy vs GRACE/MysteryGRACE And Peace...
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You are trying to apply PC as relates to baptism. Can't do.
Baptism is required and thus in need of great emphasis because not being baptized will cost one eternal salvation.
Would you say we should not be pedantic concerning repentance...or living a righteous life ? After all if not done on this earth...there is also the same result....loss of eternal salvation.
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.
For your study consideration?: 12 baptisms
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ" {online}:
ONE Baptism
Precious friend, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified!
GRACE And Peace...
For your study consideration?: 12 baptisms
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ" {online}:
ONE Baptism
Precious friend, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified!
GRACE And Peace...
Yes, agree, since He Has Reconciled all the world, and we are no longer "enemies,"
we can "respond in repentance and faith":
Amen?
GRACE And Peace...
we can "respond in repentance and faith":
Amen?
GRACE And Peace...