Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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Chosen to bear fruit?
Do you even hear yourself?
Without me you can do nothing.
Oh yes we can. We do all the things that make God save us. Then He "elects" every one of us to service and bear fruit.
I don't think you realize how OBVIOUSLY wrong this is to anyone who reads the bible and understands it.
Do you even hear yourself?
Without me you can do nothing.
Oh yes we can. We do all the things that make God save us. Then He "elects" every one of us to service and bear fruit.
I don't think you realize how OBVIOUSLY wrong this is to anyone who reads the bible and understands it.
The house of Israel is never equated to the body of Christ...Ever! Are you caught up in replacement theology as well?
6 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
6 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
The Lord will bring salvation to Israel. He made a covenant with them. They are beloved because of God's elect sake, but are enemies of the gospel.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Then you've had to cut Rom 10:10 out of your Bible, because this verse says that "man believes from his heart".
Of course you need to. It refutes your views. And Ezek doesn't help out your view either. The verse simply notes what being regenerated or born again is about. It says nothing about God giving people faith.
Said the guy who CANNOT prove his claim at all from Scripture. So who is the severely dumb one here?
I sure did. Because the Bible says so. Rom 10:10.
You need help reading clear Scripture. Ezek describes the new birth, regeneration. But calvinists erroneously believe that one must be regenerated in order to believe. Which the Bible doesn't teach.
In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. And I'm going to prove it to you.
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
The red words are synonymous. To be "made alive" is to "be saved". The red words at the end of the verse clarify the red words at the beginning of the verse.
Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
The red words here are the EXACT same words at the end of v.5. But in v.8, Paul tells us the means of our being saved, which is THROUGH FAITH.
iow, apart from faith, man CANNOT BE SAVED. And from v.5, being saved and being made alive are synonymous.
So, to be regenerated, born again, made alive all are THROUGH FAITH.
Of course I do. It's ridiculous that you would even ask such a stupid question.
Forgiven. Isa 55:7 says so.
Because Isa 55:7 says the wicked/unrighteous who FORSAKE their sins and TURN TO THE LORD are the ones who receive mercy and forgiveness from God.
It is calvinists who are the ones all tripped up.
You erroneously believe that if faith comes from man, then that CAUSES God do "have to do something" to man. That's your whole problem. It is God's plan to save those who believe.
Remember 1 Cor 1:21? The verse that I suggested you cut out of your Bible, because it totally refutes calvinism?
"God is pleased...to save those who believe."
I seriously doubt that you are even able to read and understand these words. And you have the gall to apply "seriously dumb" to me.
Very faulty premise. They have a conscience. That's where they choices come from.
You are so blinded by the false teachings of calvinism that you just can't read correctly.
You have just been totally gob-smacked by the truth of Scripture, but you probably won't even recognize it.
I've shown you many verses that directly refute calvinism, and you just continue to putter on.
Then you've had to cut Rom 10:10 out of your Bible, because this verse says that "man believes from his heart".
Of course you need to. It refutes your views. And Ezek doesn't help out your view either. The verse simply notes what being regenerated or born again is about. It says nothing about God giving people faith.
Said the guy who CANNOT prove his claim at all from Scripture. So who is the severely dumb one here?
I sure did. Because the Bible says so. Rom 10:10.
You need help reading clear Scripture. Ezek describes the new birth, regeneration. But calvinists erroneously believe that one must be regenerated in order to believe. Which the Bible doesn't teach.
In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. And I'm going to prove it to you.
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
The red words are synonymous. To be "made alive" is to "be saved". The red words at the end of the verse clarify the red words at the beginning of the verse.
Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
The red words here are the EXACT same words at the end of v.5. But in v.8, Paul tells us the means of our being saved, which is THROUGH FAITH.
iow, apart from faith, man CANNOT BE SAVED. And from v.5, being saved and being made alive are synonymous.
So, to be regenerated, born again, made alive all are THROUGH FAITH.
Of course I do. It's ridiculous that you would even ask such a stupid question.
Forgiven. Isa 55:7 says so.
Because Isa 55:7 says the wicked/unrighteous who FORSAKE their sins and TURN TO THE LORD are the ones who receive mercy and forgiveness from God.
It is calvinists who are the ones all tripped up.
You erroneously believe that if faith comes from man, then that CAUSES God do "have to do something" to man. That's your whole problem. It is God's plan to save those who believe.
Remember 1 Cor 1:21? The verse that I suggested you cut out of your Bible, because it totally refutes calvinism?
"God is pleased...to save those who believe."
I seriously doubt that you are even able to read and understand these words. And you have the gall to apply "seriously dumb" to me.
Very faulty premise. They have a conscience. That's where they choices come from.
You are so blinded by the false teachings of calvinism that you just can't read correctly.
You have just been totally gob-smacked by the truth of Scripture, but you probably won't even recognize it.
I've shown you many verses that directly refute calvinism, and you just continue to putter on.
Grandpa said:
How could Jesus be anything but Gods elect?
Yet, he doesn't even realize his quandary.
How could Jesus be anything but Gods elect?
Yet, he doesn't even realize his quandary.
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The gift is salvation; the receiving of that gift is through faith. Paul had wanted to refer to the idea of being saved and this is obvious a dissertation of salvation and not faith. The used of "gift if God" never refers to faith as the following:
John 4:10 & 14 refers to everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 refers to eternal life.
Acts 8:20 refers to the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor. 7:7 refers to either the gift of celibacy or given to marriage.
2 Timothy 3:6 refers to the giving of spirit in power, in love and sound mind.
John 4:10 & 14 refers to everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 refers to eternal life.
Acts 8:20 refers to the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor. 7:7 refers to either the gift of celibacy or given to marriage.
2 Timothy 3:6 refers to the giving of spirit in power, in love and sound mind.
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Grandpa, I been following this "discussion" (including brightfame's) and have been stunned
by the logic (or lack thereof) displayed by those who are opposing you guys. On the one hand they pay lip-service to
Christ as the Saviour, and then immediately turn-around and do everything in their power to try to dis-prove it.
Even more amazing (if that's possible), is that they are completely blind to the massive contradiction within their own views and arguments.
I guess the desire for works for salvation is buried so deeply within their heart that they just are unable to let go of it or recognize that it is there. In effect, they believe their faith can purchase salvation.
I admire your perseverance in defending the Word, but am losing hope (or already have), that as things now stand,
they will be able to accept the truth of what you've been telling them. In any event, good job to you both and
please do not grow weary of the fight.
by the logic (or lack thereof) displayed by those who are opposing you guys. On the one hand they pay lip-service to
Christ as the Saviour, and then immediately turn-around and do everything in their power to try to dis-prove it.
Even more amazing (if that's possible), is that they are completely blind to the massive contradiction within their own views and arguments.
I guess the desire for works for salvation is buried so deeply within their heart that they just are unable to let go of it or recognize that it is there. In effect, they believe their faith can purchase salvation.
I admire your perseverance in defending the Word, but am losing hope (or already have), that as things now stand,
they will be able to accept the truth of what you've been telling them. In any event, good job to you both and
please do not grow weary of the fight.
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