Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[rogerg]

Of course, you did not address that "through", then, saying, this gift is singular but you are trying to tweak "salvation and faith" (plural) as singular. You need to choose, the "gift (singular) of God" is either salvation or faith. God's pattern of this gift of God as said never refer to faith. It is salvation or eternal life, Holy Spirit etc. but not used as faith.

I said that God is the gift. I think you missed the entire point

 

[rogerg]

Properly expressed:.......enlighten us to the process of grace/forgiveness, the product of which is salvation....

My point was that the gift spoken of in the verse is God Himself, not faith or salvation. With God as the gift, comes/is faith and salvation.

 

[John146]

Christians are referred to as

I don't understand your question? Election is God's doing and from that, those elected, at a time of God's choosing, believe.

What was Jesus Christ elected to?

 

[John146]

I said that God is the gift. I think you missed the entire point

The gift is from God...the gift is grace through His Son.

 

[John146]

God's work for a man to believe.
Faith is a work

"Not by works" is pointing to the law...the law could not bring about God's righteousness. God's righteousness is found in Jesus Christ.


Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Those who God has chosen for salvation (the elect) will hear the Gospel

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


The “elect” must hear and obey the Gospel to be saved, just like the Gentiles.





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

My mentions are widely read and known. You have a Bible search and satisfy.
If you can't find what you want...let me know and I will help.

If it’s not in scripture then where does it come from?

 

[justpassinthrough]

A Saviour saves not make Salvation available.

Salvation is given to those who obey the Savior, Jesus Christ.



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9





JPT

 

[CharliRenee]

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Click to expand...​

Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​

I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

I always wondered how those who feel God only died for some, that not all are His concern, feel settled. I mean...how do they know for sure they are the chosen ones? I mean we can't be so arrogant as to assume to we are those chosen, while others not so much. I believe God shows mercy on who He chooses, but I also believe in Acts 10:34. I am not the authority on His design or ways. I still need His help bringing all the scriptures together. To me, God seeks us all to be saved, but again some have no mutual desire to seek Him, for whatever reason.

I believe my God continues to work towards calling and drawing us all to Him.

Unfortunately, some choose no!!!

 

[John146]

I always wondered how those who feel God only died for some, that not all are His concern, feel settled. I mean...how do they know for sure they are the chosen ones? I mean we can't be so arrogant as to assume to we are those chosen, while others not so much. I believe God shows mercy on who He chooses, but I also believe in Acts 10:34. I am not the authority on His design or ways. I still need His help bringing all the scriptures together. To me, God seeks us all to be saved, but again some have no mutual desire to seek Him, for whatever reason.

I believe my God continues to work towards calling and drawing us all to Him.

Unfortunately, some choose no!!!

No Calvinist ever thinks they are not chosen, nor their family. Ask one why we should risk our lives to preach the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Many times but not in the context of believing.

If you have seen the word works in the bible, then Im using and defining a biblical word.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is given to those who obey the Savior, Jesus Christ.



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9





JPT

Thats works salvation ! Conditioned upon what a person does. Far from Unconditional election of Grace which scripture teaches.

 

[brightfame52]

I always wondered how those who feel God only died for some, that not all are His concern, feel settled. I mean...how do they know for sure they are the chosen ones? I mean we can't be so arrogant as to assume to we are those chosen, while others not so much. I believe God shows mercy on who He chooses, but I also believe in Acts 10:34. I am not the authority on His design or ways. I still need His help bringing all the scriptures together. To me, God seeks us all to be saved, but again some have no mutual desire to seek Him, for whatever reason.

I believe my God continues to work towards calling and drawing us all to Him.

Unfortunately, some choose no!!!

This is salvation conditioned on man, on mans choice !

 

[John146]

If you have seen the word works in the bible, then Im using and defining a biblical word.

Not by works of the law....believing is not a work of the law. See post #2385

 

[FreeGrace2]

John146 said:
Soooo, you're not using Scripture? Gotcha

Have you ever seen the word works in the scripture ?

Wrong question.

Right question: have you ever seen the word "works" in Scripture as a condition for salvation?

 

[Grandpa]

The Lord will bring salvation to Israel. He made a covenant with them. They are beloved because of God's elect sake, but are enemies of the gospel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Those scriptures show election is to Salvation as well.

 

[Grandpa]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then you've had to cut Rom 10:10 out of your Bible, because this verse says that "man believes from his heart".

Of course you need to. It refutes your views. And Ezek doesn't help out your view either. The verse simply notes what being regenerated or born again is about. It says nothing about God giving people faith.

Said the guy who CANNOT prove his claim at all from Scripture. So who is the severely dumb one here?


I sure did. Because the Bible says so. Rom 10:10.


You need help reading clear Scripture. Ezek describes the new birth, regeneration. But calvinists erroneously believe that one must be regenerated in order to believe. Which the Bible doesn't teach.

In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. And I'm going to prove it to you.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

The red words are synonymous. To be "made alive" is to "be saved". The red words at the end of the verse clarify the red words at the beginning of the verse.

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

The red words here are the EXACT same words at the end of v.5. But in v.8, Paul tells us the means of our being saved, which is THROUGH FAITH.

iow, apart from faith, man CANNOT BE SAVED. And from v.5, being saved and being made alive are synonymous.

So, to be regenerated, born again, made alive all are THROUGH FAITH.



Of course I do. It's ridiculous that you would even ask such a stupid question.


Forgiven. Isa 55:7 says so.


Because Isa 55:7 says the wicked/unrighteous who FORSAKE their sins and TURN TO THE LORD are the ones who receive mercy and forgiveness from God.


It is calvinists who are the ones all tripped up.

You erroneously believe that if faith comes from man, then that CAUSES God do "have to do something" to man. That's your whole problem. It is God's plan to save those who believe.

Remember 1 Cor 1:21? The verse that I suggested you cut out of your Bible, because it totally refutes calvinism?

"God is pleased...to save those who believe."

I seriously doubt that you are even able to read and understand these words. And you have the gall to apply "seriously dumb" to me.


Very faulty premise. They have a conscience. That's where they choices come from.

You are so blinded by the false teachings of calvinism that you just can't read correctly.


You have just been totally gob-smacked by the truth of Scripture, but you probably won't even recognize it.

I've shown you many verses that directly refute calvinism, and you just continue to putter on.

I see your answer is yes.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So it is your contention that the "not of yourselves" applies to Grace but NOT to faith???

How in the WORLD can you make Ephesians say this, unless it is by pure wishful thinking???


There is NO WAY this can be stated like this if Faith WASN'T included in the "not of yourselves". If faith was meant for YOU to stir up in yourself it would be stated that way.

For by Grace are you saved through faith; Faith that you stir up in yourself: Then God is ABLE to save you because you stirred up that faith in yourself.


Isn't it pretty sad that you have a god that is so powerless? He can't choose anyone to save. He has to wait to see if anyone has faith in him.

He didn't seem so powerless in the OT...

 

[FreeGrace2]

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] "29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
That do it?

One of the many totally misunderstood verses in the Bible. Context is king. Context explains and clarifies.

So, let us look at some context for v.29. So we can understand it.

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus tells the Jews what to do for eternal life. And He used their own words; "work for".

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

So here, the Jews wanted to know what was REQUIRED to have eternal life. ie, what "work" is required.

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

So, Jesus answers again using their words: the "work that God requires is to believe in the Son". Basically.

Jesus used their own words to condemn them. They believed that man must DO WORKS, like keep the law, which no man can. They believed that salvation was by doing things to win God's favor.

But Jesus' answer refuted their notions of how to be saved. He said, clearly, to be saved, one MUST BELIEVE in the Son of God.

Paul's answer to the jailer was the same message. The jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved.

Paul answered; "believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved".

same exact message.

The Bible defines "work" as earning something, like a wage for work done.

Rom 4-
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Paul clearly distinguishes work from faith or believing. They are different. Work earns a wage. Salvation by faith is a gift.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Again, we are saved by grace (can't be earned) which is through faith. We are NOT saved by works (v.9).

Works have NO PLACE in salvation. Only believing in the work of Christ on the cross saves.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't understand your question? Election is God's doing and from that, those elected, at a time of God's choosing, believe.

Except you don't have a single example of anyone being chosen to believe.

I have shared many examples of people chosen for service. Including that scoundrel, Judas.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said that God is the gift. I think you missed the entire point

No, God is NOT the gift. God GIVES the gift. Very different.