Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[LactoseIntolerant]

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,​

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2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.​

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3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:​

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4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​

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5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.​

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6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:​

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Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​

I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

Unconditional election is more or less as you have described. But doctrine of unconditional election is totally unscriptural. Election does not apply to any of us, that includes calvinist.

 

[cv5]

Great question! Paul answers this in Eph 2.

v.5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Here, the bold phrases at the beginning and end of the verse are equated. iow, Paul clarifies what he means by "made us alive" by saying "you have been saved".

They go together. You can't have one without the other. Or prove it from Scripture, showing a saved person who wasn't made alive, or a regenerated person who wasn't saved. Impossible.

v. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Now, we have the same phrase from the end of v.5 in v.8 and the MEANS or METHOD of our salvation.

Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH.

So, to answer your question, a spiritually dead man becomes alive in Christ THROUGH FAITH.

"Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH."

You have failed to declare that this faith, and the salvation that comes from it are BOTH the gracious gift of God. Men do not muster this saving faith in and of themselves. To say otherwise (which you do) robs God of His glory.

 

[brightfame52]

Unconditional election is more or less as you have described. But doctrine of unconditional election is totally unscriptural. Election does not apply to any of us, that includes calvinist.

You have a lot to learn, may God be pleased to teach you.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

You have a lot to learn, may God be pleased to teach you.

There is no need to learn of your calvinist god. But if you ever break free of your doctrinal prison, God is waiting.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Good, the question remains.. If a person refuses to come to faith then how can he be elected to serve?

Election isn't specifically about being saved. Judas wasn't, yet Jesus specifically said that He CHOSE them, and John added that Jesus included Judas.

So why the focus on having to be saved before election? I've already given verses that prove that God chooses (elects) unbelievers to accomplish His will.

Having said that, I categorically reject the idea that God causes people to do His will. The truth is that God knows who will do what He wants. And places them in time and location in order to do His will. Acts 17:26,27

But, to address your question specfically, why would you think God chooses unbelievers to serve Him? That is a faulty concept.

Unbelievers ARE chosen to accomplish His will. That is certainly a service in a sense. But unbelievers clearly cannot serve the way believers do.

And Eph 1:4 says how all believers have been chose to serve: by being holy and blameless. That IS service.

No unbeliever can be holy and blameless.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Unconditional election is more or less as you have described. But doctrine of unconditional election is totally unscriptural.

It really depends on what is meant by "election". If to salvation, then of course it's unscriptural since salvation is absolutely conditioned on faith in Christ. However, if election is understood (correctly) to be about being chosen to service, then yes, biblical election IS unconditional. iow, every believer is elected to service.

Election does not apply to any of us, that includes calvinist.

I don't understand this since Eph 1:4 clearly indicates that the "us" includes all believers, since v.19 defines "us" as "us who believe".

Please explain.

Also, Paul's election to service is clearly seen in Acts 9:15 where the Lord told Ananias that Paul was His "chosen instrument to carry the gospel to the Gentiles".

 

[John146]

"Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH."

You have failed to declare that this faith, and the salvation that comes from it are BOTH the gracious gift of God. Men do not muster this saving faith in and of themselves. To say otherwise (which you do) robs God of His glory.

Faith come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Once a man hears the word of God, the man has a choice to believe it or reject it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH."

You have failed to declare that this faith, and the salvation that comes from it are BOTH the gracious gift of God.

Huh? The gift of God is eternal life, which is also salvation. Faith comes from the heart (Rom 10:9) not from God.

Men do not muster this saving faith in and of themselves.

"Muster"???? How does one "muster" faith or trust or anything?

I find it amusing that Calvinists view free will saving faith as having to "muster up the whole deal". Silly, really.

To say otherwise (which you do) robs God of His glory.

Another faulty opinion from Calvinism.

It is God's plan from start to finish. That means God makes all the rules. Not good 'ol Calvin, or those who follow his views.

It is God's plan to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21 is specific about that. Check it out.

The Bible never says that God is the cause of faith, or that faith comes from God. The Bible does say that faith comes from the heart.

Oh, and the Bible doesn't say the heart must be regenerated BEFORE saving faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LactoseIntolerant said:
Unconditional election is more or less as you have described. But doctrine of unconditional election is totally unscriptural. Election does not apply to any of us, that includes calvinist.

You have a lot to learn, may God be pleased to teach you.

Dripping with condescension. Why do you do that?

Why don't you just address his points and refute if you can?

Your response didn't advance the discussion 1 angstrom unit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

brightfame52 said:
You have a lot to learn, may God be pleased to teach you.

There is no need to learn of your calvinist god. But if you ever break free of your doctrinal prison, God is waiting.

 

[fredoheaven]

"Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH."

You have failed to declare that this faith, and the salvation that comes from it are BOTH the gracious gift of God. Men do not muster this saving faith in and of themselves. To say otherwise (which you do) robs God of His glory.

The conclusion "Therefore, both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH." If this is true, which I believe is true, then we have faith before regeneration or salvation. That's putting it into proper order. The faith prior to salvation comes from hearing the word or of the gospel. The gifting of faith is graciously given to the saved upon the working of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5) the moment he believes Christ and the gospel. Believing Christ for salvation or what the word says glorifies God.

 

[brightfame52]

The Goal of Election, its God having Predestinated a particular number of people unto Eternal Glory in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 2:10, for the purpose of having the praise of His Grace Eph 1:4-629

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[brightfame52]

There is no need to learn of your calvinist god. But if you ever break free of your doctrinal prison, God is waiting.

All I can say, see ya at the Judgment about this important issue.

 

[Justified]

Good, the question remains.. If a person refuses to come to faith then how can he be elected to serve?

You answer your own question, if only those that believe serve then why would you expect those that refuse faith to serve?

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Goal of Election, its God having Predestinated a particular number of people unto Eternal Glory in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 2:10, for the purpose of having the praise of His Grace Eph 1:4-629

The goal (purpose) of election is to service.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I've already proved that the "us" in this verse is "believers" as v.19 defines "us" that way: "us who believe".

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

God has redestined ALL believers to be adopted. Now, do you know WHEN that will occur? The Bible tells us quite clearly.

But I'll wait for your answer.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

It really depends on what is meant by "election". If to salvation, then of course it's unscriptural since salvation is absolutely conditioned on faith in Christ. However, if election is understood (correctly) to be about being chosen to service, then yes, biblical election IS unconditional. iow, every believer is elected to service.

I don't understand this since Eph 1:4 clearly indicates that the "us" includes all believers, since v.19 defines "us" as "us who believe".

Please explain.

Also, Paul's election to service is clearly seen in Acts 9:15 where the Lord told Ananias that Paul was His "chosen instrument to carry the gospel to the Gentiles".

I was forgot the word "unconditional" within the context of predestination. I agree that service and works are a natural outwork of faith. IMO, the word election has been hijacked to express their TULIP doctrine.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

As per the Arminian interpretation, us in Him, is considered as the body of Christ not the individual Christian. What was foreordained? The Word incarnate, the Shema, the Law. All these Gifts has led to us in Christ. Is free will preserved? Yes, thus God is not the Author of Sin.

Are we "elected" unconditionally. No. Free will implies we must to chose or all is meaningless. Consider, Parable of the Sower Matt 13:3. If the "unconditional election" were true, the sower would be throwing saplings not seeds.

Were we compelled to chose Jesus within the auspices of fate? No, we are not Moses nor Jonah nor Paul - prophets, patriarchs or apostles. We were not compelled to obey specifically. We receive our Grace in the Eyes of by following instructions as given by Christ (we are "us in Christ Jesus" as the body of Christ) as 2 Tim 1:8-9. Why are works, important, because they are clear indicators of a true Christian Luke 6:45.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

All I can say, see ya at the Judgment about this important issue.

I am not going to Sophia's dinner party. You should learn some greek before you go.

 

[cv5]

I was forgot the word "unconditional" within the context of predestination. I agree that service and works are a natural outwork of faith. IMO, the word election has been hijacked to express their TULIP doctrine.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

As per the Arminian interpretation, us in Him, is considered as the body of Christ not the individual Christian. What was foreordained? The Word incarnate, the Shema, the Law. All these Gifts has led to us in Christ. Is free will preserved? Yes, thus God is not the Author of Sin.

Are we "elected" unconditionally. No. Free will implies we must to chose or all is meaningless. Consider, Parable of the Sower Matt 13:3. If the "unconditional election" were true, the sower would be throwing saplings not seeds.

Were we compelled to chose Jesus within the auspices of fate? No, we are not Moses nor Jonah nor Paul - prophets, patriarchs or apostles. We were not compelled to obey specifically. We receive our Grace in the Eyes of by following instructions as given by Christ (we are "us in Christ Jesus" as the body of Christ) as 2 Tim 1:8-9. Why are works, important, because they are clear indicators of a true Christian Luke 6:45.

Mans choice and Gods choosing are BOTH taught. Nobody knows where the dividing line is....because there isn't one. Sophistry is vain.

 

[John146]

Mans choice and Gods choosing are BOTH taught. Nobody knows where the dividing line is....because there isn't one. Sophistry is vain.

God‘s elect is Jesus Christ. If man wants to be part of the elect, man needs to get in Christ. In order to get in Christ, man needs to hear the gospel and believe.

 

[cv5]

God‘s elect is Jesus Christ. If man wants to be part of the elect, man needs to get in Christ. In order to get in Christ, man needs to hear the gospel and believe.

Man needs man needs man needs....

Totally agree.

God provides God provides God provides.

Everything including saving faith.