Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#81
Feb 12, 2009
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#81
Nehemiah6 said:
While this is clearly Reformed Theology, it is not what the Bible reveals. God elects no one for either salvation or damnation. Rather Christ commanded that the Gospel to preached in the whole wide world and to "every creature". Which clearly means that salvation is offered to all. But only those who obey the Gospel as saved.
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The reformed would agree.. the gospel is to be preached to the whole world.. the great commission. And whosoever believes will not perish, that is, the person or persons who do believe. As you say only those who obey gospel are saved. the reformed believe that as well.

So once we get past this misunderstanding we might be able to discuss the real issue.

How can a spiritually dead person respond to Spiritual matters?

But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe - John 6:36

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” - John 6:40

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life - John 6:63
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#82
Jul 18, 2017
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#82
phil36 said:
How can a spiritually dead person respond to Spiritual matters?
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Simple. The POWER of the Gospel (Rom 1:16; 10:1-21) accompanied by the POWER of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-11) is more than enough to cause a spiritually dead person to obey the Gospel. And this is exactly what we find in Scripture.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#83
Jul 18, 2017
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#83
phil36 said:
Whosoever (whoever) doesn't mean everyone. It is basically saying any person/persons who. Not everyone. It's basic English.
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That is splitting hairs. Anyone means anyone and everyone. Otherwise it would be meaningless. It does not mean "anyone out of a special group".
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#84
Nov 21, 2020
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#84
Nehemiah6 said:
While this is clearly Reformed Theology, it is not what the Bible reveals. God elects no one for either salvation or damnation. Rather Christ commanded that the Gospel to preached in the whole wide world and to "every creature". Which clearly means that salvation is offered to all. But only those who obey the Gospel as saved.
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Sure its what the the scripture teaches.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#85
Feb 6, 2014
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#85
brightfame52 said:
Unconditional election is scriptural and true.
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16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Unconditional election against this verse.
This verse say God love the world, mean God love every body.
God se
brightfame52 said:
Unconditional election is scriptural and true.
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scripture say there is condition

Whosoever believe John 3:17
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#86
Nov 21, 2020
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#86
Jackson123 said:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Unconditional election against this verse.
This verse say God love the world, mean God love every body.
God se

scripture say there is condition

Whosoever believe John 3:17
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No it doesnt, scripture says election is of grace.
 
Kidron

Kidron

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#89
Feb 16, 2017
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#89
phil36 said:
How can a spiritually dead person respond to Spiritual matters?
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The same way that Peter, who was not yet born again, said......"You are the son of God".

The Same way that the dying thief on the Cross said......>"remember me".

After Pentecost, the Holy Spirit began the work of doing this.... """ “When [the Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment”'""""
Now compare this verse, with Jesus saying.....>"If i be lifted up, i will draw ALL MEN to me".....

And how? By the HOLY SPIRIT doing this to ALL MEN (the world)......"""" “When [the Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment”""""

In many churches in many denominations, on Sunday, the Pastor, Minister, will give an "alter call".
This is not for the ELECT, this is for the UNBELIEVER......as this gives God's Holy Spirit a specific chance to do this....""" “When [the Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment”""""

That is Jesus's Spirit calling ALL MEN, based on the Cross being preached.
 
Kidron

Kidron

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#92
Feb 16, 2017
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#92
brightfame52 said:
You dont say.
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The reason a person falls into the confused theological error of hyper calvinism, is because they were taught Calvin's concept on "TULIP", instead of actually understanding The Cross of Christ, The Gift of Salvation, and why justification by faith is based on free will.

Here is the major confusion a devout Calvinist has.....

They read..... "God foreknew",........ and they were taught the lie that this means...."God caused it".

The deception is......>to wrongly understand that "foreknowledge", means......."God caused it"

The devout Calvinist, does not understand that God knowing everything, is not the same as God causing everything.

For example......that God KNOWS who is going to become a Christian before they are born, is not the same as God causing them to become a Christian.

Foreknowledge is KNOWING before it happens.......and that is not the same as causing it to happen.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#93
Feb 12, 2009
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#93
Nehemiah6 said:
Simple. The POWER of the Gospel (Rom 1:16; 10:1-21) accompanied by the POWER of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-11) is more than enough to cause a spiritually dead person to obey the Gospel. And this is exactly what we find in Scripture.
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I would agree with that Nehemiah, the outward call of the gospel and the inward working of the Holy spirit will effectualy revive the spiritually dead man. 👍
 
Kidron

Kidron

Banned
#94
Feb 16, 2017
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#94
phil36 said:
I would agree with that Nehemiah, the outward call of the gospel and the inward working of the Holy spirit will effectualy revive the spiritually dead man. 👍
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Its interesting that when Jesus says....>"you must be born again"................that you and your church teach this has already happened, as you can't become "One with God", until you are born again, and you dont become "one with God", unless Jesus is in you.

Your theology is horrible.

Here is what you can do...... you can end the false, and just agree that the Holy Spirit is in the world, and opens the heart to the Gospel, when "faith comes by hearing". """ the preaching of the Cross"....The Gospel.

Just agree with John 16:8, and you'll be fine, but not until.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#95
Nov 21, 2020
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#95
Kidron said:
The reason a person falls into the confused theological error of hyper calvinism, is because they were taught Calvin's concept on "TULIP", instead of actually understanding The Cross of Christ, The Gift of Salvation, and why justification by faith is based on free will.

Here is the major confusion a devout Calvinist has.....

They read..... "God foreknew",........ and they were taught the lie that this means...."God caused it".

The deception is......>to wrongly understand that "foreknowledge", means......."God caused it"

The devout Calvinist, does not understand that God knowing everything, is not the same as God causing everything.

For example......that God KNOWS who is going to become a Christian before they are born, is not the same as God causing them to become a Christian.

Foreknowledge is KNOWING before it happens.......and that is not the same as causing it to happen.
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You at Gods Mercy friend.
 
phil36

phil36

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#96
Feb 12, 2009
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#96
Kidron said:
Its interesting that when Jesus says....>"you must be born again"................that you and your church teach this has already happened, as you can't become "One with God", until you are born again, and you dont become "one with God", unless Jesus is in you.

Just agree with John 16:8, and you'll be fine, but not until.
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Hi kidron,

I wholeheartedly agree that we must be born again before we can have union with with Christ.

I don't think you fully understand nor have a grasp of the topic at hand.

Proverbs 17:28
 
Kidron

Kidron

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Feb 16, 2017
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#97
brightfame52 said:
You at Gods Mercy friend.
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I have Christ in me., and im "One with God, In Christ".

See........one fine day i heard that Jesus loved me, and i knew i was a sinner needing to be saved.
I came to the Cross on my knees, and Jesus reached out to me and said...."welcome home", and God said....."its good to have you here my Son".

Thats what the blood of Jesus and the Grace of God does for everyone who will Believe.
 
Kidron

Kidron

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#98
Feb 16, 2017
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#98
phil36 said:
Hi kidron,

I wholeheartedly agree that we must be born again before we can have union with with Christ.

I don't think you fully understand nor have a grasp of the topic at hand.

Proverbs 17:28
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Only a fool would try to replace the Grace of God with Calvinism.
Paul didn't, and neither should you.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#99
Feb 12, 2009
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#99
Kidron said:
Only a fool would try to replace the Grace of God with Calvinism.
Paul didn't, and neither should you.
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I think youve just proven my point.


Have a blessed evening Kidron.
 
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