Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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FreeGrace2 said:
If you seriously believe that God DOES cause sin, you've got some real serious problems.
No, the Bible defines sin. And the Bible is God's Word. Who are you to claim that God causes sin? Where do you find any evidence in the Bible.
What? The claim that God does NOT cause sin?
Do you even understand what sin is?
If you seriously believe that God DOES cause sin, you've got some real serious problems.
No, the Bible defines sin. And the Bible is God's Word. Who are you to claim that God causes sin? Where do you find any evidence in the Bible.
What? The claim that God does NOT cause sin?
Do you even understand what sin is?
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The idea that God causes people to reject Him is absurd. To the max.
1 Tim 2:3-6
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
To believe that God causes hardness of heart is to reject these 4 verses.
I agree that rejecting these or any verse is really really bad.
So you just didn't comprehend my explanation then, huh.
I'll type a bit slower then.
God hardens by allowing the person more time to harden themselves. That shouldn't be so difficult to comprehend.
Prove it then.
What I deny is that God causes people to reject Him. And I proved that from 1 Tim 2:3-6.
Since you DO believe that God causes people to reject Him, then you cannot believe these 4 verses.
1 Tim 2:3-6
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
To believe that God causes hardness of heart is to reject these 4 verses.
I agree that rejecting these or any verse is really really bad.
So you just didn't comprehend my explanation then, huh.
I'll type a bit slower then.
God hardens by allowing the person more time to harden themselves. That shouldn't be so difficult to comprehend.
Prove it then.
What I deny is that God causes people to reject Him. And I proved that from 1 Tim 2:3-6.
Since you DO believe that God causes people to reject Him, then you cannot believe these 4 verses.
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In the proper contextual reading of "all" in the message of Jesus one must take into consideration Mark 4.
The Purpose of Jesus’ Parables
(Isaiah 6:1–13; Matthew 13:10–17; Luke 8:9–10)
10As soon as Jesus was alone with the Twelve and those around Him, they asked Him about the parable.
11He replied, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those on the outside everything is expressed in parables, 12so that,‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn
and be forgiven.’a”
Footnote:12 a Isaiah 6:9–10 (see also LXX)
The Purpose of Jesus’ Parables
(Isaiah 6:1–13; Matthew 13:10–17; Luke 8:9–10)
10As soon as Jesus was alone with the Twelve and those around Him, they asked Him about the parable.
11He replied, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those on the outside everything is expressed in parables, 12so that,‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn
and be forgiven.’a”
Footnote:12 a Isaiah 6:9–10 (see also LXX)
Of course it doesn't make sense, because it is senseless that anyone would even suggest that it is the character of God to taunt unbelievers by dangling salvation in their sight and just out of reach, with ne'er any intention to actually and really offer it to them to take hold of, ever.
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Old or New Testament?
Joshua 11
John 12
Belief and Unbelief
37Although Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still did not believe in Him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”g
39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says:
40“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so that they cannot see with their eyes,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn,
and I would heal them.”h
Footnote h
Isaiah 6:10
10Make the hearts of this people calloused;
deafen their ears and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.c”
Footnote c
10 c Hebrew; LXX For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them. Cited in Matthew 13:15, Mark 4:12, John 12:40, and Acts 28:27
Joshua 11
John 12
Belief and Unbelief
37Although Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still did not believe in Him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”g
39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says:
40“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so that they cannot see with their eyes,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn,
and I would heal them.”h
Footnote h
Isaiah 6:10
10Make the hearts of this people calloused;
deafen their ears and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.c”
Footnote c
10 c Hebrew; LXX For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them. Cited in Matthew 13:15, Mark 4:12, John 12:40, and Acts 28:27
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You don't believe we're all dead in sin until becoming saved? How does a spiritually dead person give themselves spiritual life?
Can a physically dead person give themselves physical life if they just try hard enough? Can a spiritually dead person
give themselves spiritual life if they just try hard enough?
Were it not for God's intervention and mercy, no one would, or should, be given spiritual life.
[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Can a physically dead person give themselves physical life if they just try hard enough? Can a spiritually dead person
give themselves spiritual life if they just try hard enough?
Were it not for God's intervention and mercy, no one would, or should, be given spiritual life.
[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
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What do you think these verses mean?
[Mar 4:11-12 KJV]
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.
[Mar 4:11-12 KJV]
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.
Probably very wise decision on your part. Mine eventually too.
There are far too many false people here who don't know the Bible at all, yet argue from their perspective of either total ignorance or callous hate for Christians.
I think those and the jokers aboard who are laughing prank prone children too, are here to see how long actual Christians will tolerate their lonely endeavors at slandering the scriptures. And positing false doctrine.
There are far too many false people here who don't know the Bible at all, yet argue from their perspective of either total ignorance or callous hate for Christians.
I think those and the jokers aboard who are laughing prank prone children too, are here to see how long actual Christians will tolerate their lonely endeavors at slandering the scriptures. And positing false doctrine.
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E
Well yeah Actually I do. Your th eone who does not. You think we are only dead until God makes us alive, While still under the penalty of sin.
They can’t. Nor did I say they could. So your question is nonsensical
Once again, We are made alive the way Jesus said
By looking to the cross. Asking for the water that flowers to eternal life. Believing in the one the father sent, Eating the bread from heaven.
You have them alive again while still in sin.. which is in error
The penalty of sin is death, Until that penalty is removed, Your still dead in sin
the removal of the penalty of sin is called justification.
They can’t. Nor did I say they could. So your question is nonsensical
Once again, We are made alive the way Jesus said
By looking to the cross. Asking for the water that flowers to eternal life. Believing in the one the father sent, Eating the bread from heaven.
You have them alive again while still in sin.. which is in error
The penalty of sin is death, Until that penalty is removed, Your still dead in sin
the removal of the penalty of sin is called justification.
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