Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

[mark54]

It took a long time for me to come to terms that what I believed was false. It did not happen in a day, a week, or a month. The strongholds of the mind have very deep roots. I was in a very confused state yet an a seed had been planted, it had to germinate and grow purging my mind of heresies in that I be brought to a genuine brokenness before God. You might scoff at my testimony but it is what it is.

I am not scoffing at you Skinsky. The sincere convert yearns to see the victory over the sin, they are desperate to see it, but they see that victory their heart so desires by looking away from themselves and tyo Christ and trusting him to change them by the indwelling Spirit. Their battle is not to give up, believing they are too much of a sinner to be a Christian, for satan wants them to think they are too worthless for God
The difference between what you preach and I believe is not how a person should live their life, but how it is achieved.
The true sin of the true Christian is when they take their eyes, hearts and minds off of Christ and look to the flesh and seek to satisfy it, that is the true sin, for if you are looking to Christ you cannot at the same time be seeking to wilfully sin, impossible.
You cannot change yourself, it is impossible, it is what Christ must do in you, and you have to know you cannot be condemned for your imperfections for this to happen, now Rom3:31

Do we then nulify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law
By faith in Christ and the power of the indwelling Spirit

You cannot live under law and grace(faith) at the same time, impossible

 

[Abiding]

It took a long time for me to come to terms that what I believed was false. It did not happen in a day, a week, or a month. The strongholds of the mind have very deep roots. I was in a very confused state yet an a seed had been planted, it had to germinate and grow purging my mind of heresies in that I be brought to a genuine brokenness before God. You might scoff at my testimony but it is what it is.

I dont buy that heresies caused this. Noone sins because of heresies. thats a joke.
If you were saved you knew sin was sin all along. No matter what anyone said.

 

[zone]

You might scoff at my testimony but it is what it is.

why shouldn't i scoff at your testimony?
that's all you and your friends have done with the people you've been making files on.

scoffing, condemning.

publically shaming...scoffing at their struggles, claiming you have victory.

why should i care about or believe your testimony at all?

you just GAVE YOURSELF A NICE CLEAN SAVED DATE.

that's all you did.

 

[Abiding]

Do you know what was at the heart of it? They thought they were already righteous and had no need of a savior. They were filled with pride of their own "goodness" and they were not like the all those "other sinners". They thought they had it made because they were of Abraham's seed,and they belonged to God because of privilege and they were doing all those "good and wonderful things. They had an attitude that they were so much better than the woman at the well,the woman caught in adultery,those tax collectors because they were "unclean" and how could they possible be like

Do you have any idea what they really saw in Jesus when He forgave them when they still were caught in sin and His light showed into the darkness,the woman at the well was STILL living with a man that was not her husband.

Wow! very nice.

 

[Skinski7]

oh i know.
years and years they've been at this.
talking and talking the same talk. never walking the walk.
then one day they throw out their laptop and don't have a desire for porn any more.
they've cleaned up their acts after all those years. Care to address the Scriptures I discuss instead of telling stories?

then the mission is go back (after supposedly being saved a little over a year) and thump their bibles and talk about how they suffered and they repented, and they repented some more.. The mission is to preach the doctrine according to godliness and preach repentance proven by deeds. That one can indeed be delivered from the bondage of sin through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and be reconciled to God through the blood. Twist that mission into any strawman you want, the strawmen are your fictions.

and they repented some more and they purified their hearts, and they did this and that.

but then.....you ask...well....what were you doing for the 15 years before your "saved date"?

answer: using Grace as license to sin, but now blaming it on everybody else.

and you ask them.....well, can you show how any people you are currently showing your overcoming self off to have not overcome more than or the same as you have?

can you show you are more saved than anyone else? Straw. It is not about "showing of one is 'more saved" (whatever that is?) than anyone else. It is whether one has repented and is being led by the Spirit. Would you have brought your charges against Paul when he preached to people that "everyone that names the name of Christ to depart from iniquity" ??? What you do is take the focus off of the scriptures being preached and go for the ad hominem diversion.

A babe in Christ is fully yielded to the Spirit as the more mature in Christ. The difference is one has simply grown more not that one is "more saved." Saved is having been redeemed from the corrupting influence of sin and having been reconciled to God have past rebellion forgiven, the babe and mature are both equally saved.

A person walking in the lusts of their flesh in disobedience to God is by definition not saved, but rather, still in bondage. That is the issue you have with what I write. You believe in a salvation where one is still in bondage. That is what the heretic Martin Luther believed and it appears that you believe it to.

no....of course not. because it would take ...mmm...maybe a week (maybe more if they're actually practicing righteousness and not just ceased from sin) in their actual real life. not enough to stop serving sin, you have to serve The Lord and His people. Strawman. One departs from iniquity in order to yield to the will of God. It is simple to understand. One lays aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness in order to receive with meekness the implanted word. No need to throw in a timeframe to muddle the waters. One is either yielding to God or they are not.

but - in real life you see, there would be little mistakes.
they'd be seen. Straw! I am not talking about "mistakes" but the ongoing action of willfully yielding to the lusts of the flesh, ie the sins of 1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-6. The sins which the Bible plainly states will DISQUALIFY YOU from the kingdom. Your strawman uses a broad brush in order to paint this perfection strawman. I'll call you out on it but you'll continue to do it again and again which clearly reveals the intentions of your heart.

so the internet is the very best place for RIGHTEOUS to preach. Straw! And you know what I do elsewhere?

Yet you refuse to engage the plain words of Scripture. I have asked you multitude of questions regarding what the Scriptures PLAINLY teach yet you resort to ad hominem every time in order to avoid the meat.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of.

The Prodigal Son left the pig pen BEFORE he was restored.

God imputes those who "walk in the steps of faith" as righteous.

James taught we are to lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the implanted word that saves our soul.

God is the author of salvation of all those who obey Him.


Preaching obedience as mandatory is a surefire way to incite the religious to an ad hominem and strawman response.

 

[zone]

I dont buy that heresies caused this. Noone sins because of heresies. thats a joke.
If you were saved you knew sin was sin all along. No matter what anyone said.

that's the common denominator bail-out.
blame it on Luther or Calvin or somebody who has been dead for 500 years.

as if you don't know your perversion is sin.

after over a decade of knowing what the Bible said. and claiming you lived by it.
ya....sure.

 

[Abiding]

that's the common denominator bail-out.
blame it on Luther or Calvin or somebody who has been dead for 500 years.

as if you don't know your perversion is sin.

after over a decade of knowing what the Bible said. and claiming you lived by it.
ya....sure.

Im not sure i can buy that hes even yet repented if hes blaming his sin on others.

 

[zone]

zone asked skinski:
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY?

They repented and believed. No-one was preaching Reformed Theology back then.

ya....blame it on others.

what a joke, skinski.

so...they repented OF WHAT in one day?

do you think any of them (the Acts 2 repenters/believers/saved people) availed themselves of the Throne of Grace throughout their remaining years? the High Priest's love and care for them?

do you suppose at any time they confessed their sins and were cleansed from all unrighteousness?

or did Jesus STOP cleansing sinners?

or were they now sinless? come on skinski - be consistent....were they?

do you think those bloody sacrifices day after day and year after year were for people who didn't know God's Love?
or were they for people who DID?

I was deceived by Reformed Theology for YEARS. I was in rebellion and reformed theology was the crutch I unwittingly used.

awww...poor you.
Martin Luther caused skinski to sin for YEARS!

i guess Luther will have to pay for your sin, since it wasn't your fault.

you sinned unwittingly.

so, what you are really saying, is while you were in rebellion for years (due to Reformed Theology), it still couldn't be held against you, since you did it unwittingly.

and, after you purified your heart and did all the things you needed to do to be saved (i don't know why you needed to be saved, since you were not responsible for your own sin - you don't have a sin nature; and your rebellion was Luther's fault),
then God decided to let you tap into His Love.

how did tapping into His LOVE save you from Luther's sin credited to your account < no ...couldn't be credited to your account...every man is responsible for his own sin, isn't he?

getting hard to follow you skinski.

leave Luther out if this, and everybody else.

let's just talk about YOU.

 

[zone]

When a Pastor tells me to my face that one can be engaged in the act of watching pornography and be justified and saved at the exact same time that Pastor is a false teacher preaching doctrines of demons. You might call that slander and sin but there is nothing new under the sun. It is the same with the pastors I have spoken to on the phone and communicated with by email.

were these the same pastors you confessed your own [years of] sin to?
you know....the ones that made you unwittingly continue in your sorry rebellion?

or were they the ones you went to after years and years of excusing your OWN SIN.

indulging it all, daily...while knowing the scriptures YOURSELF.

again, dear..i have read your own writings. i know you KNEW very well the scriptures.

if i wanted to, to be like you, i would post all your old writings up here for everyone to see how you said one thing while YOU [alone] were doing another.

When a Pastor tells me to my face that one can be engaged in the act of watching pornography and be justified and saved at the exact same time that Pastor is a false teacher preaching doctrines of demons.

watching pornography?
i will agree with you that guy like you who think they can carry on that way for years are in great danger...but are you ever going to accept responsibility for your own sin? not so far.

Peter preached the Gospel to the very men who had cried CRUCIFY HIM.
they were justified and saved the SAME DAY.
justified and saved at the exact same time.

and they then went on to do exactly what Acts 2 says they did....THEY STAYED IN THE CHURCH and learned to stop presenting their members to serve sin and learned to present themselves to God properly.

do you truly believe this happened ALL AT ONCE? then tear out half the NT!

which is something you did NOT do.
you continued to hide in the dark and cloak your sin...and now you blame Calvin or Luther.

you are looking for a way around that, and there isn't one.

Jesus said that it would be the same for those who followed after Him.

Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

oh i know.
you're a persecuted prophet.
because after years of lying to yourself and everyone around you (including God), you now have decided to go back and blame it on others.

and this makes you feel persecuted.

Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

yes, Jesus meant what He said about the Pharisees.
you still don't know what that means.

and you have the gall to mix in CHRISTIAN LOVE with your message (of excusing your own sin at the expense of others, then projecting on to them what you have done).

this is what you still don't know.

LOVE for the Church.
all those epistles teaching people HOW to stop serving sin....HOW to live a christian life. to love even the weakest.
to forgive and carry burdens. to confess to one another.

no.....those are not in there for the Christian, according to you.....they are in there apparently for the rebel who God will not save.

tell me how a natural man can understand those letters skinski?

It is not love to assure someone they are saved while they are engaged in ongoing rebellious activity to God.

of course it isn't.
are you ever going to get down from your throne and get dirty, and GO help people?
oh no....you're doing God's Work from your laptop.
you and DeSario.

blaming everyone else for YOUR stuff.

 

[zone]

A babe in Christ is fully yielded to the Spirit as the more mature in Christ. The difference is one has simply grown more not that one is "more saved." Saved is having been redeemed from the corrupting influence of sin and having been reconciled to God have past rebellion forgiven, the babe and mature are both equally saved.

what is the difference between a babe and a mature believer?
is one more perfect in God's eyes than the other?

if they are saved they are saved.

does this have anything to do with sin?

does it have to do with knowing the scriptures?

past rebellion forgiven,....what about future sin?

can a believer (babe or mature) ever sin after being saved?

you said they both saved.

 

[zone]

Yet you refuse to engage the plain words of Scripture. I have asked you multitude of questions regarding what the Scriptures PLAINLY teach yet you resort to ad hominem every time in order to avoid the meat.

young man.
i know the scriptures.
i know the meat.

why should i engage them with you?

you deceived everyone for years.

i've asked you to show me your REAL fruit. < can you do it? show me.
until you do, you're STILL ALL TALK.

i have said i will show you mine. i have overcome more sin than you will ever commit.

you are the babe in this equation.

but you are not willing to show me your REAL LIFE FRUIT, because you know you are still pretending.

and so do i.

you hate the Church....that's all i need to know about you, really

 

[zone]

Im not sure i can buy that hes even yet repented if hes blaming his sin on others.

a-a-a-a-and their folly is evident to all.
you nailed it.

it would be laughable if they weren't doing so much damage.
eh....God will deal with the gapper-gang.

 

[Abiding]

Yet you refuse to engage the plain words of Scripture. I have asked you multitude of questions regarding what the Scriptures PLAINLY teach yet you resort to ad hominem every time in order to avoid the meat.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of.

The Prodigal Son left the pig pen BEFORE he was restored.

God imputes those who "walk in the steps of faith" as righteous.

James taught we are to lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the implanted word that saves our soul.

God is the author of salvation of all those who obey Him.


Preaching obedience as mandatory is a surefire way to incite the religious to an ad hominem and strawman response.

The prodical son story would whip your tail if i told about it...your take on it is just lame.
The mercy and Goodness of God leadeth man to repentance. Think on that because that
is the only thing that can create a Godly sorrow.

Its not the bible you preach that gets you contention. Its your carnal minded outlook
on it that has not a bit of grace in it. So get over yourself. We all know sin is sin.

 

[Abiding]

a-a-a-a-and their folly is evident to all.
you nailed it.

it would be laughable if they weren't doing so much damage.
eh....God will deal with the gapper-gang.

exactly it trips out the young and sends them reeling in selfcondemnation
ive already dealt with some that came here and heard this and voiced their
heart on the matter. Ive seen a couple threads it inspired and ive ministered
to a couple directly related to this.

 

[zone]

exactly it trips out the young and sends them reeling in selfcondemnation
ive already dealt with some that came here and heard this and voiced their
heart on the matter. Ive seen a couple threads it inspired and ive ministered
to a couple directly related to this.

good for you Abiding.
God Bless

poor little ones..
what? i'm supposed to be PERFECT already?

 

[SarahM777]

exactly it trips out the young and sends them reeling in selfcondemnation
ive already dealt with some that came here and heard this and voiced their
heart on the matter. Ive seen a couple threads it inspired and ive ministered
to a couple directly related to this.

And the sad part is that for those like me God somehow does not have the power to set us free,I was too unclean to ever have been saved. It is beginning to sound more like a self help book instead of the power of God through faith in Jesus to set the captives free. Jesus never said the captives could or would be freed by their own power but it would be Him who set them free.

 

[psychomom]

Hi Ellie
I agree, sanctification is by the Spirit. I don't know if you were resoponding to my post in the above. I realise I did not mention the Holy Spirit in it as I was just meaning to generally refer to my belief as to when in his life Paul was speaking of in Rom7:14-25. I do in most of my posts on this subject stress the importance of the role of the Spirit, but if I misled anyone by failing to do so in this instance I can only sincerely apologise

Mark, you are so sweet. You remind me of this other guy named Mark--that one I've been married to for 33 years. lol

I really wasn't responding to you at all, and so for lack of clarity I apologise. (with an 's' like you would. )

It was the general tenor of the thread, and the OP, to which I was responding.
We are so man centered without God, aren't we?

I got to spend the day with my Mark yesterday. (it was going to the market, but I'll take it!)
While we were driving he was telling me some thoughts he had about this:
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped (Phil. 2, NASU)

Mark said that the Lord Jesus, while never, ever being less than God while He was also fully human, was showing us how we should live.
We want to make ourselves like God, yeah?
We say we have this power and that ability outside of Him, and it's pure pride; the root of the fall.
We consider equality with God something we can grasp!

But the Lord Jesus came to be a servant, and to be submitted to the Father, just as we should.
He IS God, but patterned humility for us, and told us that without Him we can do absolutely nothing.
It makes me sad, these ideas that we can do all kinds of things, just like God, without God.

But I like your posts, Mark. Sorry for the confusion.
-el

 

[Skinski7]

The prodical son story would whip your tail if i told about it...your take on it is just lame.
The mercy and Goodness of God leadeth man to repentance. Think on that because that
is the only thing that can create a Godly sorrow.

Its not the bible you preach that gets you contention. Its your carnal minded outlook
on it that has not a bit of grace in it. So get over yourself. We all know sin is sin.

Forsaking the pig pen prior to restoration is lame?

 

[Skinski7]

It makes me sad, these ideas that we can do all kinds of things, just like God, without God.
-el

Without God?

It amazes me how preaching repentance proven by deeds, ie. yielding to the conviction wrought by God and actually forsaking rebellion through being broken on the rock of Christ is equivalent to "doing all kinds of things without God" in people's minds.

 

[Skinski7]

And the sad part is that for those like me God somehow does not have the power to set us free,I was too unclean to ever have been saved. It is beginning to sound more like a self help book instead of the power of God through faith in Jesus to set the captives free. Jesus never said the captives could or would be freed by their own power but it would be Him who set them free.

Being crucified with Christ whereby the old man is put to death once and for all due to being utterly broken on the rock of Christ whereby an honest yielding to God from the heart is wrought sounds like a "self help book"?

"Being set free by one's own power" when the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men teaching them the way we ought to go, when the light that lights everyone who comes into the world is Jesus Christ?