Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?
- Thread starter Skinski7
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You know, I would echo some of what Abiding wrote to you, the problem is what it has always been with your posts. You make the stipulation of God accepting someone, them ceasing their sin. Therefore, the individual must cease sin BEFORE the Holy Spirit enters their life
Yet do you not say by following after the Spirit we do not yield to the lusts of the flesh? Now I would say that is biblically correct, but for a person to cease sin in their own strength to be acceptable to God, gives two problems to me
Firstly they have to do it in their own strength, and secondly it does in effect mean they must uphold the law before God will accept them. That is not Paul's message, nowhere near IMO
They have to know they do not have to uphold the law for God to accept them, or to remain with him, then Rom 6:14 comes into play so to speak
Yet do you not say by following after the Spirit we do not yield to the lusts of the flesh? Now I would say that is biblically correct, but for a person to cease sin in their own strength to be acceptable to God, gives two problems to me
Firstly they have to do it in their own strength, and secondly it does in effect mean they must uphold the law before God will accept them. That is not Paul's message, nowhere near IMO
They have to know they do not have to uphold the law for God to accept them, or to remain with him, then Rom 6:14 comes into play so to speak
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A
Skinski its not what your guy teaches that i have a problem with. Its his slander
and the way he denies our justification while hes doing it. To me its just to make a following for himself.
Thats how i see him.
Nothing wrong to teach holiness at all, or righteous living. But what he seems
to get heartburn over is the very basis of our standing in the Lord that qualifies
us to go boldly to His throne for mercy and grace. Shameful to me.
and the way he denies our justification while hes doing it. To me its just to make a following for himself.
Thats how i see him.
Nothing wrong to teach holiness at all, or righteous living. But what he seems
to get heartburn over is the very basis of our standing in the Lord that qualifies
us to go boldly to His throne for mercy and grace. Shameful to me.
Paul never sinned in Rom 7:7-11 ????? What does that mean and where did you get that idea from?
Paul is writing a defence of the law in Romans 7:7-11 and he concluded...
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
The Ministration of Death was in fact Glorious (2Cor 3:7).
Paul is teaching that without the law he would not have known "wrong doing" or "sin." Sin is only imputed when there is law (Rom 5:13). One cannot sin (unto death) absent the law.
Rom 7 is dealing with the charge that the law is evil because when it is violated it brings forth death, thus if there was no law then there could be no violation and therefore no death. Paul is teaching that the law is in fact good (ordained to bring life Rom 7:10, for it teaches the way a man should go) but the actual result was death due to sin.
Paul is writing a defence of the law in Romans 7:7-11 and he concluded...
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
The Ministration of Death was in fact Glorious (2Cor 3:7).
Paul is teaching that without the law he would not have known "wrong doing" or "sin." Sin is only imputed when there is law (Rom 5:13). One cannot sin (unto death) absent the law.
Rom 7 is dealing with the charge that the law is evil because when it is violated it brings forth death, thus if there was no law then there could be no violation and therefore no death. Paul is teaching that the law is in fact good (ordained to bring life Rom 7:10, for it teaches the way a man should go) but the actual result was death due to sin.
hi Art-Of-Acceleration
yes, in the west we have been, and allowed ourselves to be totally degraded.
and it is disgraceful for all of us...to be sure.
but we are all to blame, we let it happen.
it's not just men who have suffered and been damaged by all this - it's women and children too.
modesty (for both sexes) is vastly under-rated...we've been brainwashed into thinking it's oppression.
such a shame.
"...simply wearing the veil does not safeguard a woman from body image issues, but wearing the veil willingly does." (from a Muslim woman's p.o.v.)
concerning lusting after a woman being a sin...the OP (original poster? of the thread) said lust (the same word is concupiscence) in itself is not sin, but that it leads to sin.
he also said Jesus Christ experienced sexual concupiscence...yet did not sin.
do you think this is possible for The One who never sinned?
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? By no means. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:8
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
and we might debate this matter concerning ourselves as non-divine human beings (the OP also does not believe in original sin, or that all men fell in Adam. he does not believe we are sinful by nature - not even before being washed/born again).
i am wondering if Jesus Christ Emmanuel experienced sexual lust.
what do you think?
if this is too forward, by all means, bypass answering.
anyone else?
yes, in the west we have been, and allowed ourselves to be totally degraded.
and it is disgraceful for all of us...to be sure.
but we are all to blame, we let it happen.
it's not just men who have suffered and been damaged by all this - it's women and children too.
modesty (for both sexes) is vastly under-rated...we've been brainwashed into thinking it's oppression.
such a shame.
"...simply wearing the veil does not safeguard a woman from body image issues, but wearing the veil willingly does." (from a Muslim woman's p.o.v.)
concerning lusting after a woman being a sin...the OP (original poster? of the thread) said lust (the same word is concupiscence) in itself is not sin, but that it leads to sin.
he also said Jesus Christ experienced sexual concupiscence...yet did not sin.
do you think this is possible for The One who never sinned?
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? By no means. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:8
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
and we might debate this matter concerning ourselves as non-divine human beings (the OP also does not believe in original sin, or that all men fell in Adam. he does not believe we are sinful by nature - not even before being washed/born again).
i am wondering if Jesus Christ Emmanuel experienced sexual lust.
what do you think?
if this is too forward, by all means, bypass answering.
anyone else?
A
Skinski are you aware that it takes the Holyspirit to convict men of sin?
You may think you show how, but honestly from an outsiders view...meaning me
you dont. You just harp about porn and child molesting.
Nothing on the love of God and mercy comes to mind even if you have. Try to remember
Jesus asked us to obey Him out of Love. Fear brings torment. Honestly i think more
vegetables and fruit would make a better meal.
You may think you show how, but honestly from an outsiders view...meaning me
you dont. You just harp about porn and child molesting.
Nothing on the love of God and mercy comes to mind even if you have. Try to remember
Jesus asked us to obey Him out of Love. Fear brings torment. Honestly i think more
vegetables and fruit would make a better meal.
have you thought and said evil things about all the licentious child-molestors AND the pastors you guys plaster all over the net?
are you still doing it? have you sinned (thinking evil) at all against those people?
or do you call that love (can you call the evil you have said, thought and performed good/love)?
are you still doing it? have you sinned (thinking evil) at all against those people?
or do you call that love (can you call the evil you have said, thought and performed good/love)?
A
Well thats one part of reformed doctrine i do hold to nearly totally depending
on what you say about it. Ive heard your logic about it and it doesnt make it.
The reason it doesnt is your saying if we were given His righteousness that would
mean we can sin all we want. Well im sorry im just not impressed with that.
Ive got no problem with alot of what you teach...as much as i do with what you dont teach.
And what you deny.
on what you say about it. Ive heard your logic about it and it doesnt make it.
The reason it doesnt is your saying if we were given His righteousness that would
mean we can sin all we want. Well im sorry im just not impressed with that.
Ive got no problem with alot of what you teach...as much as i do with what you dont teach.
And what you deny.
HOW to overcome sin BEFORE God will save you.
no sin....without sin.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY?
compared to you, who took years.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved. in a single day....what were the 3 things that happened to them/they did on that day skinski? do you know yet?
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
no sin....without sin.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY?
compared to you, who took years.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved. in a single day....what were the 3 things that happened to them/they did on that day skinski? do you know yet?
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
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Paul taught in 7-11 that sin used the law to wrought all manner of concupiscence in him Skinski. Why is it so hard for you to believe. Sin SPRANG TO LIFE AND HE DIED. Sin used what was Holy righteous and good to make Paul a worse sinner. He was alive until the law came to him Skinski, but when it did sin sprang to life and he died. And he gave in to that sin otherwise it would not have been death to him. The law did not just reveal the sin. This is why Paul states
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace
This is what you do not see.
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace
This is what you do not see.
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A
HOW to overcome sin BEFORE God will save you.
no sin....without sin.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY?
compare to you, who took years.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved.
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
no sin....without sin.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY?
compare to you, who took years.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved.
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
condescending and roughshod teaching ive heard from people who have
been around christianity for decades. They had every issue, and fallen more than
once.....then after a bit of success in getting the outside of the cup clean, even
tho the heathen do too, because it destroys for no other reason. Then preach
like everyone that hears them will just poof into whatever they seem to think they are.
It reminds me of some people Jesus kept running into.
When a Pastor tells me to my face that one can be engaged in the act of watching pornography and be justified and saved at the exact same time that Pastor is a false teacher preaching doctrines of demons. You might call that slander and sin but there is nothing new under the sun. It is the same with the pastors I have spoken to on the phone and communicated with by email. I have had long discussions and showed them many scriptures and very few actually believe what the Bible plainly states. These men have multitudes of people hanging off their every word whilst they offer assurance of salvation to people who remain in bondage to their sin.
Those who directly address the issue of ongoing sin and how it relates to salvation will be mostly rejected by the people in the world, in particular religious people.
It was religious people who crucified Jesus Christ because he exposed their hypocrisy and told them to repent of their evil.
The Old Testament is full of examples of God's messengers being falsely accused of all manner of evil and being persecuted.
Jesus said that it would be the same for those who followed after Him.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
It is not love to assure someone they are saved while they are engaged in ongoing rebellious activity to God. It may tickle the ears of those who like that sort of thing but love does not rejoice in iniquity.
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Those who directly address the issue of ongoing sin and how it relates to salvation will be mostly rejected by the people in the world, in particular religious people.
It was religious people who crucified Jesus Christ because he exposed their hypocrisy and told them to repent of their evil.
The Old Testament is full of examples of God's messengers being falsely accused of all manner of evil and being persecuted.
Jesus said that it would be the same for those who followed after Him.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
It is not love to assure someone they are saved while they are engaged in ongoing rebellious activity to God. It may tickle the ears of those who like that sort of thing but love does not rejoice in iniquity.
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
oh i know.
years and years they've been at this.
talking and talking the same talk. never walking the walk.
then one day they throw out their laptop and don't have a desire for porn any more.
they've cleaned up their acts after all those years.
then the mission is go back (after supposedly being saved a little over a year) and thump their bibles and talk about how they suffered and they repented, and they repented some more..
and they repented some more and they purified their hearts, and they did this and that.
but then.....you ask...well....what were you doing for the 15 years before your "saved date"?
answer: using Grace as license to sin, but now blaming it on everybody else.
and you ask them.....well, can you show how any people you are currently showing your overcoming self off to have not overcome more than or the same as you have?
can you show you are more saved than anyone else?
no....of course not. because it would take ...mmm...maybe a week (maybe more if they're actually practicing righteousness and not just ceased from sin) in their actual real life. not enough to stop serving sin, you have to serve The Lord and His people.
but - in real life you see, there would be 'little mistakes'.
just mistakes though we are assured.
they'd be seen. in real life. over time.
so the internet is the very best place for RIGHTEOUS to preach.
years and years they've been at this.
talking and talking the same talk. never walking the walk.
then one day they throw out their laptop and don't have a desire for porn any more.
they've cleaned up their acts after all those years.
then the mission is go back (after supposedly being saved a little over a year) and thump their bibles and talk about how they suffered and they repented, and they repented some more..
and they repented some more and they purified their hearts, and they did this and that.
but then.....you ask...well....what were you doing for the 15 years before your "saved date"?
answer: using Grace as license to sin, but now blaming it on everybody else.
and you ask them.....well, can you show how any people you are currently showing your overcoming self off to have not overcome more than or the same as you have?
can you show you are more saved than anyone else?
no....of course not. because it would take ...mmm...maybe a week (maybe more if they're actually practicing righteousness and not just ceased from sin) in their actual real life. not enough to stop serving sin, you have to serve The Lord and His people.
but - in real life you see, there would be 'little mistakes'.
just mistakes though we are assured.
they'd be seen. in real life. over time.
so the internet is the very best place for RIGHTEOUS to preach.
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HOW to overcome sin BEFORE God will save you.
no sin....without sin. Actually it is how to be broken in godly sorrow which works a repentance UNTO SALVATION. While the rebellion ceases in repentance the actual "overcoming of sin" is done through the Spirit and not the flesh. The very moment the rebellion ceases and one yields to God WHOLEHEARTEDLY is the very moment that one is "enabled" to overcome sin so to speak. The cessation of rebellion and the overcoming of sin are two different things. One cannot "overcome" without love for love overcomes all things. Love is only wrought within through being tapped into the source which is God.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY? They repented and believed. No-one was preaching Reformed Theology back then.
compared to you, who took years. I was deceived by Reformed Theology for YEARS. I was in rebellion and reformed theology was the crutch I unwittingly used.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved. in a single day....what were the 3 things that happened to them/they did on that day skinski? do you know yet?
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
no sin....without sin. Actually it is how to be broken in godly sorrow which works a repentance UNTO SALVATION. While the rebellion ceases in repentance the actual "overcoming of sin" is done through the Spirit and not the flesh. The very moment the rebellion ceases and one yields to God WHOLEHEARTEDLY is the very moment that one is "enabled" to overcome sin so to speak. The cessation of rebellion and the overcoming of sin are two different things. One cannot "overcome" without love for love overcomes all things. Love is only wrought within through being tapped into the source which is God.
a pure mind/heart.
again, i'll ask you to explain to me about the sinners in Acts 2.
how were they saved in ONE DAY? They repented and believed. No-one was preaching Reformed Theology back then.
compared to you, who took years. I was deceived by Reformed Theology for YEARS. I was in rebellion and reformed theology was the crutch I unwittingly used.
explain HOW those sinners in Acts 2 were saved. in a single day....what were the 3 things that happened to them/they did on that day skinski? do you know yet?
we already know they were pricked in the heart by the Power of God preached to them by [Spirit-filled] Peter.
so, how is it they were saved the same day?
btw: only a saved/being saved individual can understand Romans 6 skinski.
and 7 and 8, 9 and all the rest of scripture.
why do you snuff out the smoking flax the way you do?
did anyone do it to you?
you took years to get "saved" (actually you just picked a saved date that makes you look like an overcomer).
didn't ya skinski
If you believe that if you sin you die, you are where Paul was in verses 7-11. For he believed at that time his sin was death unto him. You must see that. And he believed that because he was under the law. He tried his hardest to obey the comandment but could not do it, believing it was death to him when he failed
So we know he is talking pre conversion, on that we agree.
So he died to the law, which meant he knew he could not be condemned for his imperfection/sin, and once he knew that he started to live a holier life. For the law has no power if it can carry no punishemnt, and it cannot carry punishment for the Christian because Christ died for their sin, so the power of sin is broken in the Christians life, for the power of sin is the law.(1Cor15:56)
But all of this takes time to work out Skinsky, this is what you do not see.
This is what Paul is telling us in Gal2:16&17
No one is saying it is fine to sin, but once you lay stipulations down that if a person sins they are condemned, or they must cease sin for God to accept them you again give sin power in their life
Remember the new covenant.
God has put, via the Spirit his laws on the converts heart and mind so they WANT TO OBEY. So there is no licence to sin for the sincere convert/it is no camofluge for sin, but it all takes time to see the fruit of Grace,
So we know he is talking pre conversion, on that we agree.
So he died to the law, which meant he knew he could not be condemned for his imperfection/sin, and once he knew that he started to live a holier life. For the law has no power if it can carry no punishemnt, and it cannot carry punishment for the Christian because Christ died for their sin, so the power of sin is broken in the Christians life, for the power of sin is the law.(1Cor15:56)
But all of this takes time to work out Skinsky, this is what you do not see.
This is what Paul is telling us in Gal2:16&17
No one is saying it is fine to sin, but once you lay stipulations down that if a person sins they are condemned, or they must cease sin for God to accept them you again give sin power in their life
Remember the new covenant.
God has put, via the Spirit his laws on the converts heart and mind so they WANT TO OBEY. So there is no licence to sin for the sincere convert/it is no camofluge for sin, but it all takes time to see the fruit of Grace,
Do you know what was at the heart of it? They thought they were already righteous and had no need of a savior. They were filled with pride of their own "goodness" and they were not like the all those "other sinners". They thought they had it made because they were of Abraham's seed,and they belonged to God because of privilege and they were doing all those "good and wonderful things. They had an attitude that they were so much better than the woman at the well,the woman caught in adultery,those tax collectors because they were "unclean" and how could they possible be like them?
Do you have any idea what they really saw in Jesus when He forgave them when they still were caught in sin and His light showed into the darkness,the woman at the well was STILL living with a man that was not her husband.
Do you have any idea what they really saw in Jesus when He forgave them when they still were caught in sin and His light showed into the darkness,the woman at the well was STILL living with a man that was not her husband.
no, it took you a long time to quit indulging your sinful desires.
why do you want to blame it on your beliefs?
you knew your sin was wrong you made excuses.
Skinski was "confused" but others are flat-out perverts?
ya...that's how you did it.
and do it.
really?
that's not at all what you have been slashing people with.
not even close.
so now your message is all about LOVE conquering all?
God hates sin.
according to you God HATES the rebel, and He hates the sinner.
why would you be able to "tap into" His Love? < gnostic
He hated you apparently.
would in no way love you or save you at all.
disgusted by you, would not RECONCILE HIMSELF to sinners.
no, you had to reconcile yourself to Him first.
no cessation of sin (don't try changing your story now skinski...you've got too much trash already forever online) -
NO LOVE for you skinski....
no Mercy, No Grace.
so...back to my question....when did God decide to let you "tap into" His love skinski?
and if He did it freely, why aren't you giving it freely?
you had a bunch of stuff about making amends and stuff as well before God will forgive.
have you made amends yet? to the people you have though and spoken evil of (regardless of their standing before God)?
because if you haven't, you're not forgiven.
why do you want to blame it on your beliefs?
you knew your sin was wrong you made excuses.
Skinski was "confused" but others are flat-out perverts?
ya...that's how you did it.
and do it.
really?
that's not at all what you have been slashing people with.
not even close.
so now your message is all about LOVE conquering all?
God hates sin.
according to you God HATES the rebel, and He hates the sinner.
why would you be able to "tap into" His Love? < gnostic
He hated you apparently.
would in no way love you or save you at all.
disgusted by you, would not RECONCILE HIMSELF to sinners.
no, you had to reconcile yourself to Him first.
no cessation of sin (don't try changing your story now skinski...you've got too much trash already forever online) -
NO LOVE for you skinski....
no Mercy, No Grace.
so...back to my question....when did God decide to let you "tap into" His love skinski?
and if He did it freely, why aren't you giving it freely?
you had a bunch of stuff about making amends and stuff as well before God will forgive.
have you made amends yet? to the people you have though and spoken evil of (regardless of their standing before God)?
because if you haven't, you're not forgiven.
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