Does God Hate The Unsaved?

Joshua_Generation · Jun 8, 2015

Either way actually. Since most do not understand the love less translation.

I think the Word tells us pretty clearly and also implies that God loves everyone, even the unsaved.

Here is a passage for those that state God hates the unsaved.

1 John 4.8-11

[SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. [SUP]9 [/SUP]By this the love of God was manifested [SUP][b][/SUP]in us, that God has sent His [SUP][c][/SUP]only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 8, 2015

Joshua_Generation said:

True, But God loves Jacob (Israel), he hated (loved less) esau (edom)

Love is a relational term. The ones who have a deeper relationship have a capacity to love me, the ones who do not love less.

PeterJens · Jun 8, 2015

God appears to hate evil deeds and punish those who do them. When it was Israel, be brought judgement in terms of captivity and war.

Hear now, heads of Jacob
And rulers of the house of Israel.
Is it not for you to know justice?
“You who hate good and love evil,
Who tear off their skin from them
And their flesh from their bones,
Who eat the flesh of my people,
Strip off their skin from them,
Break their bones
And chop them up as for the pot
And as meat in a kettle.”
Then they will cry out to the Lord,
But He will not answer them.
Instead, He will hide His face from them at that time
Because they have practiced evil deeds.
Micah 3:1-4

Maybe you could say God loves the love he planted in people, but when it bears no fruit, is happy to destroy and behave as it nothing ever existed. So I am suggesting God loves the unsaved for their potential, but cannot love them if nothing happens, because there is not something of value.

Would you love a homicidal maniac running towards you with murder in his eyes, or cut him down out of self protection?

ArtsieSteph · Jun 8, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Yes, yes that. It's like a dad that has a kid that does something wrong. They love the kid no matter what, they just don't like what they did and the decision they made.

PeterJens · Jun 8, 2015

An interesting perspective.
If someone hated you the normal response is to hate back. Gods response at first was

for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
exodus 20:4-6

Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:6

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

JaumeJ · Jun 8, 2015

PeterJens said:

In studying the Word in the Old testament, when God visited any punishement on the Children of Israel it was a chastisement, not an act of hatred, for God chastises those whom He loves.

Yet this you do have said:

Gr8grace · Jun 8, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi eg,

Even "love" in the Word is an anthropopathism.

Gods "love" is way beyond our definition of "love." And our definition of "hate" is not in Gods "love."

MarcR · Jun 8, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

There is NO WAY to translate 'hated' in Mal 1:3 as 'loved less'! The word used is the Hebrew 'saw nee tiy'', which means: I despised, I detested, or I abhored'.

In luke 14:26, the Greek 'miseo' does indeed have the connotation of loved less.

The words simply do not lend themselves to the same translation!

crossnote · Jun 8, 2015

Gr8grace said:

Your case may hold if logical deductions trumps what's revealed in Scripture. To me it's a fatal leap to trade 'predestination', which is revealed in Scripture, for 'free will' for fallen man which I have yet to find in Scripture.
True, fallen man has choice, but his choice is according to his depraved nature, not God's will.

crossnote · Jun 8, 2015

ArtsieSteph said:

So love 'no matter what', ends up condemning their children to hell?

Gr8grace · Jun 8, 2015

MarcR said:

I agree that there is no way for us to translate it to "loved less" if we have a human view point of Gods Love. But if we understand that Gods love is larger than human love, we can easily say, "loved less."

I believe we can use "loved less" because we don't even understand the true Love of God. It is way bigger than our "love"
It is why it is an anthropopathism. We are trying to use human vocabulary(finite) to try to explain the infinite.

So, again this is pointing to God. And offending His very nature and integrity.

Esau used "human viewpoint" in his life. Something God does not have, He has divine viewpoint and anything less is opposite His integrity.

Gr8grace · Jun 8, 2015

crossnote said:

Predestination is a true doctrine. And In the Word. It is just not predestined to salvation.

Our predestination and election is waiting on the other side of the Chasm after we believe. They don't come over and get us.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 8, 2015

MarcR said:

sorry, But not sure where you get your hebrew interpretations from.

8533 שָׂנֵא (śā·nē(ʾ)): v.; ≡ Str 8130; TWOT 2272—1. LN 88.198–88.205 (qal) hate, abhor, detest, loathe, be hostile, have a feeling of open hostility and intense dislike (Ge 37:4); (qal pass.) hated (Isa 60:15+); (nif) hated (Pr 14:20+); 2. LN 39.1–39.12 (qal) be an enemy, i.e., be in open hostility and strife with another (Pr 29:24), note: for qal ptcp. as n.masc., see 8533.5; (piel) note: for piel ptcp. as n.masc., see 5383.5; 3. LN 25.33–25.58 (qal) dislike, shun, not love, i.e., have a feeling of lacking of love and compassion for an object, implying a refusal or shunning of relationship (Dt 22:13, 16; 24:3; Pr 11:15; 19:7); (qal pass.) be unloved, loved less than (Ge 29:31, 33; Dt 21:15,16, 17; Pr 30:23+); (nif) unloved, be shunned (Pr 14:17+); 4. LN 13.104–13.163 unit: לֹא שָׂנֵא מִן תְּמוֹל שִׁלְשׁוֹם (lō(ʾ) śā·nē(ʾ) min temôl šil·šôm) without malice aforethought, formally, not hate from the past, i.e., pertaining to something that “just happens” without any intent, so concluded to be an accident (Dt 4:42; 19:4, 6; Jos 20:5+), see also domain LN 30.53–30.55 for its opposite, “intention”

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Edom was Gods enemy, they rejected God. that is why in malichi, God spoke of two nations. One he loved, and one he (english translated) hated.

the word enemy, and love less both fit with the word used. as Edom was Gods enemy,

Are you going to sit here and tell me God did not want Edom to repent and turn to him like he did ninevah, if they were willing? is that not the true defenition of love?

eternally-gratefull · Jun 8, 2015

crossnote said:

they were condemned due to unbelief. Not because God did not chose them.

A child is forgiven by a parent who has true love, but if that child goes and kills someone, the child still will go to jail. It does not mean the parent no longer loves the child.

Gr8grace · Jun 8, 2015

crossnote said:

Were you born with that depraved nature?

Condemnation must precede salvation. Who condemned us? God.

He put us ALL under unbelief. And condemned us ALL. Its a blessing in disguise.

Doing it this way, He can offer ALL men salvation through belief in His Son.

This is how He can Judge the peoples with Straightness,fairness,equality,on a level playing field.

Belief in His Son. And He would be UNJUST, if even one man couldn't follow His rules for His salvation.(He condemned ALL men)

Gal 3:22~~New American Standard Bible
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Psalm 9:8~~New American Standard Bible
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Sirk · Jun 8, 2015

I don't think people that choose their way over Gods way will even want to spend eternity with God. Their hearts will be totally hardened when that day comes and it will be all of their own doing. Everyone will be without excuse.

PeterJens · Jun 8, 2015

Sirk said:

It makes me think a little deeper about something. If everyone is made with love in their core which non followers of Jesus have blocked out, sealed off to defend against hurt, and pain, and disappointment, meeting the Lord will be no different.

He is the core they have shut out, the thing they have denied they are, and have built a person completely separate from the life they need. They have already made their choice, they are in total opposition to what the Lord is, like night and day, there is nothing in them that will respond or communicate, it will just be a massive confusion, or as Jesus puts it a nashing of teeth. It is almost as if in the darkness when hearts were still soft, and love still poked through, some could open up, and let the Lord in.

Maybe once the light shines, there is no connection so everything just withers away.

In islam there is a concept, though a lie may hold some truth. Everyone is born with love in them, a potential to find the Lord and communion, but outside this fellowship, so slowly hardening as time goes by. Islam calls this everyone is born a muslim but gets corrupted by the wrong religion.

I have always found it interesting the enemy uses some aspects of truth and puts a twist on it, so His people might reject it all and not see a spiritual reality.

Sirk · Jun 8, 2015

PeterJens said:

It makes me think a little deeper about something. If everyone is made with love in their core which non followers of Jesus have blocked out, sealed off to defend against hurt, and pain, and disappointment, meeting the Lord will be no different.

He is the core they have shut out, the thing they have denied they are, and have built a person completely separate from the life they need. They have already made their choice, they are in total opposition to what the Lord is, like night and day, there is nothing in them that will respond or communicate, it will just be a massive confusion, or as Jesus puts it a nashing of teeth. It is almost as if in the darkness when hearts were still soft, and love still poked through, some could open up, and let the Lord in.

Maybe once the light shines, there is no connection so everything just withers away.

In islam there is a concept, though a lie may hold some truth. Everyone is born with love in them, a potential to find the Lord and communion, but outside this fellowship, so slowly hardening as time goes by. Islam calls this everyone is born a muslim but gets corrupted by the wrong religion.

I have always found it interesting the enemy uses some aspects of truth and puts a twist on it, so His people might reject it all and not see a spiritual reality.

We were designed for connection. What we choose to connect to is the result we will get. Connecting with the things of the world will disconnect us from the very thing we were designed to be connected with......God. Everybody finds fellowship somewhere and everyone will have the opportunity to come into fellowship with Jesus at some point.

Gr8grace · Jun 8, 2015

PeterJens said:

It makes me think a little deeper about something. If everyone is made with love in their core which non followers of Jesus have blocked out, sealed off to defend against hurt, and pain, and disappointment, meeting the Lord will be no different.

He is the core they have shut out, the thing they have denied they are, and have built a person completely separate from the life they need. They have already made their choice, they are in total opposition to what the Lord is, like night and day, there is nothing in them that will respond or communicate, it will just be a massive confusion, or as Jesus puts it a nashing of teeth. It is almost as if in the darkness when hearts were still soft, and love still poked through, some could open up, and let the Lord in.

Maybe once the light shines, there is no connection so everything just withers away.

In islam there is a concept, though a lie may hold some truth. Everyone is born with love in them, a potential to find the Lord and communion, but outside this fellowship, so slowly hardening as time goes by. Islam calls this everyone is born a muslim but gets corrupted by the wrong religion.

I have always found it interesting the enemy uses some aspects of truth and puts a twist on it, so His people might reject it all and not see a spiritual reality.

I believe that in and of ourselves, we are totally depraved. We wouldn't go to God.

What people are denying here, is the fact that God came to us! He did something about our total depravity. He sent His Son, and the depraved man can see His Son.

crossnote · Jun 8, 2015

Gr8grace said:

Whatever...

Ephesians 1:4-5 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

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