Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Please provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
There is NO SUCH SCRIPTURE. Calvinism promotes this error, which shows that the Gospel of Calvinism is a false Gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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According to your statement above, a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has "heard,trusted,believed,sealed".

It is clear from Eph 1:13 that the believer hears the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then trusts/believes, then is sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.

Please provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


The verse clearly states ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation and ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise after ye believed.
The gospel of our salvation. The gospel informs us of how we received our eternal salvation, and it was by the sacrifice, to God, not to man, for the sins of those that God gave to his Son. After hearing the gospel of how Jesus had eternally saved us, we believed and trusted in what Jesus had done for us and the Holy Spirit that was given to us is "the earnest of our inheritance" (a down payment) until our redemption.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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According to your statement above, a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has "heard,trusted,believed,sealed".

It is clear from Eph 1:13 that the believer hears the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then trusts/believes, then is sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.

Please provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.



Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

The verse clearly states ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation and ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise after ye believed.
(Please provide scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation) 1 Cor 2:11 - For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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(Please provide scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation) 1 Cor 2:11 - For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
You still provided no Scripture that indicates that the disciples had the Spirit before Acts. Can you please post. If not, how did the disciples have any understanding of some of the spiritual things Jesus taught them?
 

tourist

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It is God's will and desire that all should be saved. If true, and it is because it is stated in scripture, than it follows that God's will and desire will certainly be accomplished.
 

tourist

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This comes down to the question of God's sovereign will over all things, including who is saved and who is not saved.

We believe God has full control over all things, including salvation itself. We ascribe all power and authority to God, we don't believe that God left the most important decision of salvation in the hands of fallen, sinful men. We believe He made that decision before He created the world.

You need to walk over so many verses of scripture to embrace the "free choice view". We can't just rationalize away all those scriptures to support the "free choice" movement, which takes the power of salvation away from God and gives it to sinful men.
I tend to agree with your estimation God's sovereign will about who is saved or not saved.
 
Oct 16, 2018
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Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
He "died for the ungodly" and "loved us while we were yet sinners." Whosoever will, let him come.

He died for all, but all aren't willing.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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It is God's will and desire that all should be saved. If true, and it is because it is stated in scripture, than it follows that God's will and desire will certainly be accomplished.
Is God's will always accomplished? Does God force His will to be accomplished?
 

tourist

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Is God's will always accomplished? Does God force His will to be accomplished?
So you are saying that God's will is not always accomplished, that He is incapable of finishing a work that He has started? If so, there's not much hope for us is there? God does not have to force anything.
 

John146

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So you are saying that God's will is not always accomplished, that He is incapable of finishing a work that He has started? If so, there's not much hope for us is there? God does not have to force anything.
I never said God is incapable. Let me ask you: Do you sin? Is that God's will for your life?
 

tourist

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I never said God is incapable. Let me ask you: Do you sin? Is that God's will for your life?
It is not God's will to stop sin but it is His will and desire that all should be saved. I have years ago repented from my sins but yes, I still sin occasionally as most of us will stumble from time to time. It is God's will and desire for my life for me to have life and have it more abundantly. That's in the bible somewhere I believe and that's the way I'm trending.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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You still provided no Scripture that indicates that the disciples had the Spirit before Acts. Can you please post. If not, how did the disciples have any understanding of some of the spiritual things Jesus taught them?
This is why I am on this forum. Our discussions is a motivation for me to study more when by beliefs are challenged. And John146, you have caused me to dig into the scriptures a little deeper. I don't think that we ever stop learning as the Spirit reveals. I have always been under the assumption that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was not until Jesus had ascended. The reason that I have stalled in answering your question about, how did the apostles hear and understand spiritual things before Jesus ascended and sent the comforter. In John 14:26, Jesus says that the comforter is the "Holy Ghost". Actually, I had to converse with my pastor. He is of the belief that there is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit and brought some scripture to mind that I had not previously taken not of. The Holy Ghost is not mentioned in the old testament and the Holy Spirit is mentioned twice in the old testament and that is in Isaiah 63: 10-11. - Verse 11- That he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that "put his Holy Spirit within him"? Eph 2:5 when we are regenerated (made alive- quickened) I thought to be after Jesus ascended, but with further study I have changed my mind, because the whole chapter of Psalms 119, David prays to God about understanding God's spiritual commandments and uses the word quicken (to make alive) several times. Quickening by the holy Spirit is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and gives man the ability to start learning spiritual things. I previously thought the Holy Spirit "was Upon" the old testament profits, but now am believing that the Holy Spirit was indwelling. The same with the apostles before Jesus had ascended.. I do not think that the apostles understood very much, being regenerated and babes in Christ, but began to understand very fast after they received the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost. I know that you will probably not be able to chew this, but will look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for motivating me to study.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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After hearing the gospel of how Jesus had eternally saved us, we believed and trusted in what Jesus had done for us and the Holy Spirit that was given to us is "the earnest of our inheritance" (a down payment) until our redemption.
Right ... first hear ... then believe / trust ... then earnest of our inheritance given

Now quit adding all your extraneous non-biblical dogma to what is written in Eph 1:13.

Just believe what is written.


 
Mar 23, 2016
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(Please provide scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation) 1 Cor 2:11 - For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
When a person has the Spirit of God, that is indicative that he/she is born again (i.e. no longer an unbeliever).

1 Cor 2:11 does not state that a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation as you claimed in your post #559.



 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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When a person has the Spirit of God, that is indicative that he/she is born again (i.e. no longer an unbeliever).

1 Cor 2:11 does not state that a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation as you claimed in your post #559.
If no man can know the things of God, it is because that man only has the spirit of man within him and can know only the things of man. A man/woman must have the Spirit of God to know the things of God. The only way the natural man/woman can have the Spirit of God is through regeneration, as explained in Eph 2:5. which makes him/her spiritually alive by giving them the Holy Spirit.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Right ... first hear ... then believe / trust ... then earnest of our inheritance given

Now quit adding all your extraneous non-biblical dogma to what is written in Eph 1:13.

Just believe what is written.
You have not established how the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 has the ability to discern spiritual things, such as, hearing and believing spiritual things.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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If no man can know the things of God, it is because that man only has the spirit of man within him and can know only the things of man. A man/woman must have the Spirit of God to know the things of God. The only way the natural man/woman can have the Spirit of God is through regeneration, as explained in Eph 2:5. which makes him/her spiritually alive by giving them the Holy Spirit.
Right. But you have yet to explain how a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation as you claimed in your post #559.

In post #560, I asked you to provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.

In post #563, you referenced 1 Cor 2:11. You and I both agree that 1 Cor 2:11 does not indicate what you claimed. You and I both agree that Eph 1:13 reveals the born again believer first hears, then trusts / believes, then is sealed.

Again, please provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Thank you.


 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Again, please provide Scripture which indicates a person "has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" before he/she has heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Thank you.
The confusion lies in mistaking the Gospel for the deep things of God. Already addressed and already ignored by the OP.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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You have not established how the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 has the ability to discern spiritual things, such as, hearing and believing spiritual things.
Yes, I have provided you with the proper understanding of 1 Cor 2:14. I have explained 1 Cor 2:14 to you several times.

You reject the truth of Scripture because your dogma is in conflict with the truth of the Word of God.

The word "natural" in 1 Cor 2:14 is the Greek word psyxikós (5591: ψυχικός).

If Paul had used the Greek word physikós (5446: φυσικός) in 1 Cor 2:14, I would agree with you. But Paul used the Greek word psyxikós (5591: ψυχικός).

The Greek word physikós (5446: φυσικός) means natural, describing the behavior of an unregenerate person, i.e. a nature lacking divine transformation (salvation). However, Paul did not use this word in 1 Cor 2:14.

In 1 Cor 2:14, Paul used the Greek word psyxikós (5591: ψυχικός) and the word describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven".

Here is what I explained to you in the "Predestination or free wiil" thread at Post #489:

In 1 Cor 2:6 Paul indicated that he spoke to those who were perfect (i.e. more mature, not "perfect" as in 'no sin') concerning the wisdom of God in a mystery (1 Cor 2:7).
But the natural man spoken of in 1 Cor 2:14 were those who were "brethren" (1 Cor 2:1) who could receive instruction as to Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2). Paul could not instruct these immature believers about the wisdom of God in a mystery so Paul taught them what they could understand. He did not go beyond what they could comprehend.
The "natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14" is the born again believer who is still immature and is referred to in 1 Cor 3:1 as a babe in Christ:
1 Corinthians 2:

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
The "natural man" in 1 Cor 2:14 is the same as the "babe in Christ" spoken of 3 verses later in 1 Cor 3:1.