Does I Corinthians 13 teach certain gifts ceased with the closing of the canon?

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I actually saw gold form in a back tooth at a meeting.

Was amazing and wonderful.

The Holy Spirit is still moving big time.

He does so inspite of skeptics.
God is not in that business, if He did not spare His son, He wont spare your tooth just for the sake of it. I have no doubt you saw what you saw but connecting God to what you saw is not right.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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The dead are still raised

Thank you Jesus !!!!
Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.

2Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

Psalm 116:
15Precious in the sight of the Lord
is the death of his faithful servants.

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Praise the true Jesus for the above.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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All gifts ceased, all of them.
The Bible says we have gifts differing according to the grace given unto us, and gifts include teaching, leading, and giving.

Would you have us believe that Christians do all these things now in their own strength without the grace of God working in them? What is your basis for this belief? This is not what the apostles taught.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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674
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All gifts ceased, all of them.
The Bible says we have gifts differing according to the grace given unto us, and gifts include teaching, leading, and giving.

Would you have us believe that Christians do all these things now in their own strength without the grace of God working in them? What is your basis for this belief? This is not what the apostles taught.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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The Bible says we have gifts differing according to the grace given unto us, and gifts include teaching, leading, and giving.

Would you have us believe that Christians do all these things now in their own strength without the grace of God working in them? What is your basis for this belief? This is not what the apostles taught.
Teaching/leading/giving were there before Christ and the church even in the OT. The gifts of the Holy spirit were specifically given to the Apostles and their appointees to help them establish the church in 1st century after which they ceased.
Their specific purpose was to aid in preaching the gospel; "and after this gospel is preached to all the nations, the end will come.."

The life of the apostles is testament to the fact that the gifts ceased. During their time, no prison cell could hold them, they broke out of chains miraculously but as soon as they finished their mandate, they faced a brutal death, each one of them just as they were promised.

Heb 2: 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

God is not still testifying to the gospel today, the canon took over what the Apostles were doing. If we want to get the gospel, we go to the canon.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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The Bible says we have gifts differing according to the grace given unto us, and gifts include teaching, leading, and giving.

Would you have us believe that Christians do all these things now in their own strength without the grace of God working in them? What is your basis for this belief? This is not what the apostles taught.
IMO, even teaching/preaching/ evangelism ceased based on God's plan. All these were taken over by the canon and i believe this below is God's plan:

Jer 31:
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,”

The apostles were only ushering in this new covenant but we are in this new covenant. After the apostles, no one can claim they have been appointed by God because God's appointments were physical and unmistakable.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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What a dilemma.

That position they take "forces" them to misapply or ascribe "another power source"to those that do speak in tongues.

Basically attributing the power of the Holy Spirit to the devil .

Very poor judgement on them. Flat out dangerous
There is also a possibility of attributing the power satan to God with all these claims, don't you think so?

The fear of judgement doesn't come from God but satan, the bible says (1 John 4). Fear also shows you do not know what you are talking about and it gives ".. rather be safe than sorry" attitude. This attitude will take you into the ditch.

One thing i know, there can never a genuine sign here and a fake sign there so that God's people can be confused, it is either one or the other but the most important thing, is to understand the times we are in.

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

The delusion is strong.
 
Jan 5, 2020
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I actually saw gold form in a back tooth at a meeting.

Was amazing and wonderful.

The Holy Spirit is still moving big time.

He does so inspite of skeptics.
I am interested in hearing your testimony on this.
I have a friend who wanted so badly to see God do miracles, everything that could be a work of God was one.

Another brother testified he had a friend who claimed God has given him a gold tooth, when actually he knew
it came from the dentist, but got caught up in the moment.

So if you want to take a normal thing, having gold crowns on teeth, and God the Lord of miracles, will show His power
by giving people pointless gold crowns on good ordinary teeth, that is insane. I have 3 crowns, all dentist made and I would
literally be shocked if God wanted to defy normal nature of things to give me a gold tooth instead of my natural
healthy teeth. That would be killing a tooth. It all strikes me as total delusion, literally.

There are so many with serious illness and life threatening problems who need intervention, but the Lord abstains,
yet in this world, getting gold teeth, no problem.

Now I believe in the gifts, in miracles, in Gods blessing and intervention to help the needy, so I am not cynical about
the Lords moving, just the lies and falsehoods that many accept as truthful and honest.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I talked to Paul about this in a vision once.
:LOL:
Jokes aside, did you really talk to Paul in a vision? How? what did he say?
I thought such things ceased.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I find it difficult to believe that miraculous powers and signs are the only things which are "spiritual in nature"

Don't you agree?
I would agree Christ's faith that works in us comes after the things not seen "the eternal" and not after that which is "the temporal".

No such thing as a sign gift. Like some with Jesus making him into a circus seal. .Do a miracle and when we see we will believe.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Therefore making the prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18 )for rightly dividing the word of God without effect. By those worldly tradition of men.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1 Corinthians 14:22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The sign is for those who fall backward.The outward sign of unbelief that God has elected.

Why not rather fall forward on ones knee in worship?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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:LOL:
Jokes aside, did you really talk to Paul in a vision? How? what did he say?
I thought such things ceased.
Sounds like the false gospel of signs and lying wonders.

I would think they have only ceased for those who like the Son of man, Jesus. He experienced three in Mathew 4 and obeyed the voice of the Father three times who put the words in his mouth . . it is written, and again as it is written . Strike three struck him out end of that season .

One source of Christian faith as it is written .It represents the unseen eternal.

Therefore Jesus not trusting his own fleshly mind and worshiping of fallen angels (messengers) as we are informed in Colossians 2:18.

Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels.They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas. Colossians 2:18. (Easy to Read Version)

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Colossians 2:18. King James
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I'm wise enough not to submit my experience to your criticism.
And i respect that but from understanding of the scriptures, no credibility to such claims.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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There was a time i thought i also saw such things and believed, not any more because they are lies meant to misdirect those who believe. Satan also comes with signs and wonders- fake signs and wonder and the lie is so strong.
With God, everything has its own time and the signs were meant to legitimize the apostles, also help them preach the gospel. That time is long gone and it all ceased according to God's plan.
No
The men of God answering Jesus call to the upper room are long gone.

Hence your cessationist incubator. Teaching all who will be duped into a different Gospel.

"....and those that DENY THE POWER thereof. From such turn away"

Iow, just smile and begin to walk away.
Then when they say "we cant be around you"

Simply reply
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Sounds like the false gospel of signs and lying wonders.

I would think they have only ceased for those who like the Son of man, Jesus. He experienced three in Mathew 4 and obeyed the voice of the Father three times who put the words in his mouth . . it is written, and again as it is written . Strike three struck him out end of that season .

One source of Christian faith as it is written .It represents the unseen eternal.

Therefore Jesus not trusting his own fleshly mind and worshiping of fallen angels (messengers) as we are informed in Colossians 2:18.

Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels.They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas. Colossians 2:18. (Easy to Read Version)

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Colossians 2:18. King James
@garee, you'll kill me one day with your wisdom, i can't even understand.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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No
The men of God answering Jesus call to the upper room are long gone.

Hence your cessationist incubator. Teaching all who will be duped into a different Gospel.

"....and those that DENY THE POWER thereof. From such turn away"

Iow, just smile and begin to walk away.
Then when they say "we cant be around you"

Simply reply
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!
I don't understand what you are saying but thanks anyway.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,105
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@garee, you'll kill me one day with your wisdom, i can't even understand.
Kill like fall backward slain in the Spirit? Did you try mixing faith and receive the gospel understanding?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Kill like fall backward slain in the Spirit? Did you try mixing faith and receive the gospel understanding?
No, i mean kill like make me breathless.;)
Just kidding. All is well.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Cessationism is the belief that gifts of the Spirit, or certain gifts, ceased in the first century or at some later time. One theory is that I Corinthians 13 teaches this idea. Many cessationists reject the idea that 'that which is perfect' in the passage refers to the completed canon.

John Calvin's commentary on the chapter argued that the idea that the perfect referred to the 'intervening time' between either resurrection or death as 'stupid' or 'foolish' depending on your translation. While the idea that 'that which is perfect' seems to be out of favor with the more academic cessationists who study Greek, it still retains some popularity among the rank and file.

Is there any hint in I Corinthians that Paul discusses a completed canon of scripture? No. Does this assumption fit the context? No.

I Corinthians 13
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul compares his speech, thought, and understanding before the perfect came to that of a child, whereas that afterward would be as an adults.

Did Paul's speech, thought, and understanding change into that of an adult's when Revelation was written? No. He was asleep in Christ. Paul makes the passage personally about him. He will, however, experience the resurrection.

Suppose you want to 'stretch' this passage. Can you say that the speech, thought, and understanding of believers who lived after Revelation was so advanced compared to 1st century Paul's that his seemed like that of a child?

Not only does that position put the reader in a superior position to the apostles who wrote scripture, but it also is not true. Many of us read Paul's writings as believers, and years later gain a deeper understanding of them as we continue to read. The light bulb goes off and we get a new insight that Paul clearly had before us...an area where he was more 'perfect' than we were in our understanding.


It also does not make sense that if a group of kindergarteners write a book for infants, and if the infants gain a copy of the book or read it all, that they will suddenly grow up in their understanding to be like adults. Making yourself out to be an adult in understanding and the apostles to be children is not a good way too look at the scriptures, either.

Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

The New Testament is written so that we might attain to the level of the understanding the apostles had of the mystery of Christ. There is no guarantee in it that we will make their understanding like that of a child's in comparison by reading the scriptures.

I Corinthians 1
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here, as Paul starts out a letter in which he will address a number of themes, he hints at some of the topics he will address in chapters 12 through 15. Chapter 12 teaches on spiritual gifts, while chapters 13 through 14 and especially 14 focus on tongues and prophesying-- utterance gifts. Notice all utterance and all knowledge and compare to knowledge, tongues, and prophecy in chapter 13.

Chapter 15 teaches about the resurrection of the dead at the return of the Lord Jesus (at his coming.) Paul also refers to the 'end' in chapter 15 when he writes 'and then cometh the end'-- a grammatically inflected form of the same Greek word used here in 1:8 (Strong's G5056.)

Here in chapter 1, we see writes of the Corinthian church and believers everywhere coming behind in no spiritual gift waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the 'lens' or 'exegetical key' we should use to interpret chapter 13. We should not read in some later theory or concept that is not even hinted at in the whole book, as those who argue that he is writing about the completed canon do.

The perfect come when we are in heaven.

Than we do not need the gift If healing, because No body sick there.