Dr. Michael Brown and the Sabbath Debate

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Where in the bible did God command Adam and Eve not to worship Idols? I ask this question not because I want to know, but to demonstrate the false basis of the question. To assume that Adam and Eve were allowed to worship Idols or take Gods name in vain or have other Gods before the true God is absurd.

Yet that is the same argument that people use when they say, "show me where the Sabbath was observed before Moses". Same messed up logic. Don't be fooled by foolish questions that do not bring any light.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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¨There was an oral tradition handed down until Noah. After Noah it continued with minor changes due to the oventant and other factors but it was called the Noahic law or tradition.

We know by oral tradition.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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They are called Ten not 9 or 11 or 101 commandments and God distinctly made two different laws.
After speaking the Ten Commandments
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Written on Stone and He added NO MORE. How are the 10 C an overview of the entire Mosaic Covenant? There is no overview of the sacrificial service in the 10 or any overview of the dietary requirements?

Who has the authority to add or take from Gods Law?

The laws that were given to Moses were about life and rules to live by, like the rules we have today to keep order (like speed limits) and they were laws about sacrifices and offerings, they were about new moons and festivals, and they included yearly Sabbaths or Sabbaths that were different to the weekly Sabbath.

Some of the ceremonies were offerings for sin and they were a shadow of the coming messiah. "Take a lamb, bull and transfer your sins to it and kill it", Lev 4. To do this ceremony after the death of Jesus would be a denial of the death and payment that Jesus gave. Heb 9:12

You said "a spirit-led Christian can read the Mosaic Covenant and discern, with spiritual eyes, the spiritual and moral principles underlying the specific application given to ancient Israel, and apply those."
So to read the principles about diet and lifestyle and believe it was Gods recommendation for His people and it was healthy for them, than i am not a judaizer because i follow some of those laws. If not eating Pig was something that God told the Jew to do for their GOOD and God knows what is best than, and i want what is best for my health than i'll follow that command.

I could go on but you have heard it all before.....
i just can't see how you can take the 10 and turn it into 9 because you don't see it as a moral commandment or because you see it as a shadow. Yes Jesus is our continual rest but that isn't grounds to do away with the commandment that God said to remember and placed in the middle of the other 9, in stone.

The Sabbath was given before there was ever a Jew and before there was sin.

James clearly states many years after the death of Jesus that to break one of the Ten is to break all.
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Could He say, if you keep all nine and forget the Sabbaththou art become a transgressor of the law.
The SDA say they believe that salvation is by faith alone but they also believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast
As that mark leads to damnation then according to SDA thinking most Christians are damned unless they observe the sabbath.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Just a question on your source. Do you believe because a person has letters before or after his name the children of God will be impressed.........You could quote Alfred Schweitzer and it would make no difference to those tutored by the Holy Spirit. Praise God, amen.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The SDA say they believe that salvation is by faith alone but they also believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast
As that mark leads to damnation then according to SDA thinking most Christians are damned unless they observe the sabbath.
I deliver mail to an elderly man who is a SDA and he has handed me paper work about what they believe and a book about the end times. This man acts like a dooms day prophet and has even predicted that the world would come to an end last September. He strongly encouraged me to demand to my employer that I cannot work on Saturday and implied that if I don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday that I won't be saved.

In regards to the Sabbath, I read this in his paper work: The Sabbath: "The divine institution of the Sabbath is to be restored… The delivering of this message will precipitate a conflict that will involve the whole world. The central issue will be obedience to God's law and the observance of the Sabbath.…Those who reject it will eventually receive the mark of the beast."

I've never once heard this man share the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16), but he loves to talk about keeping the Sabbath on Saturday and obeying God's law to be saved. So much for salvation by faith alone according to him.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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The question is what is the object of your faith? Is in keeping a day or in what Christ did at the cross. Should we set aside a day to worship and give praise to God in corporate setting? of course we should. But, is that what we place our faith in?
I place my faith in the One who made the day of rest and asked us to Remember it. He also gave us a way out of sin through the sacrifice of His Son. My faith rests in God....
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
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He's also dispelled the notion of some Hebrew Roots Movement people , which claim the New Testament or parts of it were written originally in Hebrew. He notes that there is NO manuscript evidence to support this claim. Even if there was manuscript evidence, it would be meaningless because the New Testament writings were translated into MANY languages. That's part of the beauty of the Greek language. It was the universal trade language at the time, and someone in just about every nation understood it. So, they could take the writings and translate them into their own language for the benefit of all. This enabled the writings to be disseminated over a wide area quickly.
And the fact that passages such as Matthew 27:46 make no sense if the NT was written in Hebrew,

At about three o’clock Jesus shouted with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”


The passage would be utterly redundant. The author would be explaining to the reader what “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani” means, but for what reason?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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What is the difference between Hebrew Roots and any other "named" denomination. The differences are usually something inconsequential.

All who believe Jesus Christ are of the faith of Abraham.......call that Hebrew Roots if you like. I am not in any denomination,nor will I ever be after my own experience with so many until I realized I am of the faith Jesus Christ teaches.

If any wish to be against any particular denomination, be certain it is one Jesus Christ has not named as HIs own.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What is the difference between Hebrew Roots and any other "named" denomination. The differences are usually something inconsequential.

All who believe Jesus Christ are of the faith of Abraham.......call that Hebrew Roots if you like. I am not in any denomination,nor will I ever be after my own experience with so many until I realized I am of the faith Jesus Christ teaches.

If any wish to be against any particular denomination, be certain it is one Jesus Christ has not named as HIs own.
We do have the same kind of faith that Abraham had as he believed God and thus we do the same thing by believing in Christ alone for salvation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The faith of Abraham is onion skinned to some degree. Abraham is comprised of those words that say "Honored Father of Nations."

The faith of Abraham is the faith given by the most Honored Father. This understanding lends to growth I believe, but it must be understood.