Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

lastofall · Nov 23, 2016

Thank you for you're article and your thoughts concerning false teaching as well as falsely believing. If I may I would just add [for me anyway] that to deny our own will daily all the day long; and to repent and own our sins daily all the day long; and submit to and rely upon the Word of God daily all the day long is the sum of being a true follower of the Lord Jesus Christ: and the Lord knows there are stronger in faith and weaker, but He looks for who is sincere toward Him, and knows those who are not; therefore our making the sincere effort to do the things which He says is when we may call Him Lord, and He accepts our sincerity. As for false teachings, which are many led by blind leaders followed by blind followers, all together it is evident that they delight in Christ as a Savior, but keep at a distance from Him as their Lord, for they know that a Lord is one that must be obeyed in order for Him to actually be their Lord.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.

Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

Skinski7 · Nov 23, 2016

Magenta said:

It doesn't have to be "constant."

ONE SIN kills you. You cannot sin and not surely die. Sin ALWAYS produces death.

You have made a distinction between "willfully sinning all the time" (ie. constant willful sin) and "occasionally willfully sinning" (willfully sinning sometimes).

NEITHER are acceptable. The sin must stop, not become less frequent.

You stated...

You admit that you WILL stumble and fall and that the "stumbling and falling" is in contrast to "constant willful sin." Hence you are clearly advocating for SOME willful sin.

Why argue in favour of any sin at all?

The Bible clearly states that...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Obviously you don't "abide in Him" if you are still sinning on occasion. How could you view it any other way?

The Bible teaches...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

John did not write that "whosoever is born of God sins only sometimes." He did not write that because "willful sin" is a result of this...

Mar 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Mar 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

When you sin where does it come from? It certainly does not come from a pure heart.

If your heart is pure then you won't be sinning.

Do you believe that your ongoing sinning is cloaked by grace? Do you believe that grace is somehow a cover for when you "willfully sin" occasionally? If you believe that then I would seriously reconsider that belief.

Grace is...

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace is what leads and quickens us (Eph 2:5). It is not a cover or a cloak. One cannot abide in the grace of God while they are still sinning. The sin has to stop.

[video=youtube;2NAseilIq-U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NAseilIq-U[/video]

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

Persuaded said:

So much hatred and anger from you guys. What spirit do you suppose drives this anger and hatred?

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

How about some Old Testament scriptures foretelling of the righteousness that is to come from the Lord.

We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.

Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and faith righteousness for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested in a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ - will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Butwe all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells. We awake to righteousness and sin not as we rely on the grace of Christ in our lives.

Persuaded · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

I do not hate you. I pray for you, that your eyes will be opened to the truth.
But I do hate sin. I hate false teaching. I hate the fact that you use a Christian web site to teach your Satanic message.
You imply that you are sinless. You imply that to sin is to be lost and Hell bound. You imply that you are the authority on all Scripture.
You are being used by Satan even if you do not know it.
I feel sorry for you, and while I pray that you will see the truth before it is to late, I also pray that God will stop you and your false teaching.

stonesoffire · Nov 23, 2016

There is an instant change in the newly born again repentant believer. Our spirit does receive the incorruptible spiritual seed of God through Jesus. Our spiritual heartbeat no longer beats just for our own love of self, but beats for another. We are in love with our Lord.

But, we have enemies and have to learn to fight a battle. So we become soldiers. The enemy manifests through the spirit of this world that's controlled by the prince of darkness. In the "air". He tugs at our old man...things that our flesh may look back at, and we can be tempted much like Abraham's wife....our own lusts stir up trying to make a declaration that nothing is changed. The enemy lies to us....will we believe it? Flesh by the way means more than just the body but is our own human nature.

This battle is spiritual and can only be won with spiritual weapons. The Word and the Spirit working together which is activated by faith of the truth.

Communion...the bread and wine! We declare His death and life until He comes. Paul said he dies daily. This means he declared daily his need for the cross of blood sacrifice of Jesus, and he placed his faith in the resurrection life for living above his flesh which is the meaning of we sit in heavenly places.

Bob Jones taught about living above the snake line. Faith is the key to it.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

G7 does create a lot of gumf. It all hinges on Jesus is a different faith to God and Israel.

Nope. Jesus is the spiritual version of the physical reality of Israel. No earthly temple or
special festivals, or special days, but they all have their significance.

In this change of faith, walking with Jesus, sinners stay sinners, failed and flawed but
seen as Christ and not themselves. But there is no spiritual or scriptural foundation to
this. It is just to cover up failure, and explain how failed believers in abiding sin can
still inherit the Kingdom.

The simple answer is they cannot. But if you are a dualist they can. So the worse you are
and the more the gospel is a dream you cannot capture, the more this dualist concept appeals.

The Lord in truth is happy for people to wrap rocks around their necks and through themselves
to their deaths, if they have been given a choice by His people and His word.

You cannot say we did not warn them.

maxwel · Nov 23, 2016

I thought this thread on "duelisms" was going to be about dueling.

Boy am I disappointed.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

did in order to get - no faith only doing
you believe in order to receive - no doing only faith

Both of these ideas are wrong. And you should respect this teacher, lol.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

righteousness conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.
Sin conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.

A christian concept, is do righteous deeds, and do not do sinful deeds. That is our calling.

I think ideas not from the creator come from another source. God the creator gave us what
we need, and if it is critical, it is already there. But false teachers are always full of their
secret knowledge which unlocks everything that God and the Holy Spirit had not previously
made plain.

But if you want so badly to listen to new things, go ahead, it is just we are called to listen
to our Lord.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

So much confusion, but finally some truth.

Awake to righteousness, purity and holiness in Christ and the Holy Spirit through
repentance, confession and washing by the blood of Christ.

As a result sin not. Amen Hallelujah.

But oh. The cleansing, washing, healing, repentance, confession and blood are
all missing. So even here this is a poor imitation, and the end sin not, just does
not happen. Just listen to the preacher, G7, one failed dude.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

The breast plate of righteousness

This works if you life righteously. No defence if you live sinfully in defeat, the
enemy can just cut you to ribbons.

These believers are so cut to ribbons, they are the weapon thrown at believers,
to clog churches and destroy its testimony. But God always has his intention
to wake up and teach his people by these living examples of what not to do.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

In the Old Covenant - the law demanded that they "do" in order to receive. It is called the works of the law. Deut. 28 talks all about this. Do this - and this blessing will come.

In the New Covenant it is all about believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done. We can trust Him in us for life and living now by the Holy Spirit within us.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The law is NOT of faith. The whole Christian life is built upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and all that He has accomplished. "The just shall live by faith".

Galatians 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

PeterJens said:

Here is one that shows the disassociated identity--->>>>

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

The old covenant was a promise to Abraham to bless the world through His descendants.

The new covenant is entering the Kingdom of God through Jesus Christ.

Both involve faith, obedience and repentance of sin.

Now believe it or not all covenants are based on actions and conforming to the rules.
Paul says the new covenant is becoming slaves to righteousness.

Love God and love your neighbour are both commands of the old and new covenants.
Strange that their foundations are identical.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

If any man be in Christ , he is a new creation. old things have passed away, "Behold - look upon, perceive, see" new things have come. 2 Cor. 5:17

See who you really are now in Christ - we are one spirit with the Lord and as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit to reflect His life outwardly.

2 Cor. 3:17-18 - we too are transformed from glory ( goodness ) to glory ( goodness) - which means more of the goodness of the Lord is seen in our life as we behold Christ whom we are one with in the spirit. 1 Cor. 6:17

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The true Christian life is an exciting revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ - as we see Him - we receive the grace to live. His life is manifested in our life - His righteousness, His wisdom.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Romans 13:8-11

Paul did not separate the law from love, rather we fulfill the law by walking in love
that Jesus opened our hearts up to.

I can only imagine the believers who oppose this message do not have this in their
lives, because to be honest it echoes in all that I am.

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

Amen - we are a new creation in Christ, and if we follow, obey and are transformed,
love will flow from our hearts as the fruit of His work within us.

We have then become like our Lord, in Spirit and truth.

Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

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