Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

Here is another one that has this made up "disassociated identity" thing. The apostle Paul had this "disorder" real bad....

Romans 8:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not the real them ( not their true nature ) - not who they really are in Christ.

The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us who are in Christ.

The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ.

The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )

Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).

[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20[/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).

[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),

[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

italics = my words

Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13

We do not have 2 identities within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."

We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "it's" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.

We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth. Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the spirit - our true selves in Christ.

We can still sin in the flesh by doing the works of the flesh but this does not affect the inner man in Christ who has been created in righteousness and holiness.

We need to keep our eyes and Jesus and we are dependent on His life and grace to teach us and transform us outwardly to reflect in our behavior who we already are in our spirit.

As long as we are on this earth and in this body we will have to contend with the world, the flesh and the devil and none of these are the real us that are in Christ.

We are not of the world, nor the flesh, nor the devil.

The good news is that our Lord Jesus Christ has defeated all 3 of them and now we just need to walk in the truth of this! The renewing of our minds to the new creation realities in Christ are paramount into growing up in Him.

maxwel · Nov 23, 2016

Whatever disorder the Apostle Paul had...

I sure hope I get it.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

How Paul dealt with the Christians at Corinth.

Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ..then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now...

..he told them who they were in Christ..saints..they have His righteousness, holiness..etc.

These are the very same people that were causing divisions and strife amongst each other. Men going to have sex with the temple prostitutes, believers taking each other to court, people getting drunk at Communion..etc.

Paul called them carnal Christians and yet at the same time called them "saints" - that they have the righteousness of God, that they were complete in Him, that they had the mind of Christ, that they were holy...etc...that Christ was confirmed as being in them.

Then Paul goes on to say in verse 8 " who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Paul gives them their true identity in Christ then goes on to describe what this true life in Christ will look like. Paul says later on to "Awake to righteousness and sin not" This is a call to see who you are in Christ and in seeing this - sin will fall off of us like dead leaves off a tree.

As can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.

1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4)The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption

1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

Here's another one--->>>

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 10:2
But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Peter 2:10
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

maxwel said:

LOL...Amen..we all have this "man made-up disorder" because we are in Christ.......it actually is a term used by some that do not understand the new creation in Christ and that we are now one with the Lord as one spirit.

Our body of flesh has been cut away from the inner man of the heart which has been created in righteousness and holiness. This is called the circumcision of the heart and of Christ.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

When we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we believed in Christ ( Eph 1:13 ) - He cut away this new man in Christ that was risen with Christ from the dead to newness of life.

The understanding of this will change our life and how we view ourselves in the Lord and the great salvation He has done for us.

To the natural mind of man - this is all foolishness and of course a personality dis-order.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

psalm6819 · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

The only reason you people ask this question over and over again is so you can bring accusations and condemnation. If we answer one way or the other, we still will be accused and condemned by those who hate the Truth according to the words of God.

What I am, and what you are does not make the words of God any less true. So stop trying to judge and conform the words of God to your own sinful condition and image, but rather let the words and Word of God transform you in to the image of God's blessed Son Jesus Christ.

like you??????????????????

psalm6819 · Nov 23, 2016

PeterJens said:

righteousness conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.
Sin conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.

A christian concept, is do righteous deeds, and do not do sinful deeds. That is our calling.

I think ideas not from the creator come from another source. God the creator gave us what
we need, and if it is critical, it is already there. But false teachers are always full of their
secret knowledge which unlocks everything that God and the Holy Spirit had not previously
made plain.

But if you want so badly to listen to new things, go ahead, it is just we are called to listen
to our Lord.

acknowledging every good thing in you....does that ring a bell?

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

Originally Posted by PeterJens

righteousness conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.
Sin conscious - what is this? Not a biblical or christian concept.

A christian concept, is do righteous deeds, and do not do sinful deeds. That is our calling.

I think ideas not from the creator come from another source. God the creator gave us what
we need, and if it is critical, it is already there. But false teachers are always full of their
secret knowledge which unlocks everything that God and the Holy Spirit had not previously
made plain.

But if you want so badly to listen to new things, go ahead, it is just we are called to listen
to our Lord.

psalm6819 said:

Yes..it rings a bell for me. Paul told Philemon that the acknowledging of every good thing that is in him in Christ makes his faith effectual or working.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

When we have to earn your own righteousness by what we do instead of acknowledging Christ's righteousness that He gave us as a gift - because God gave us Jesus Christ Himself and we are joined as one spirit with the Lord - then this becomes foolishness to the natural humanistic mind.

There are fruits of righteousness but they originate from the life of Christ's righteousness that is in us. Those we love to do as we participate with the Lord in what He is doing in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the real Lord that loves them dearly.

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

Desertsrose said:

You're totally missing his point. Take the time and slowing read and think about what he's saying.

And if you have, okay, but I still think you're missing his point. It's not whether we sin or don't sin. The question should be what path are you on. Are you walking the straight and narrow path, the path that leads you to righteous living and eternal life. Or are you still walking the wide path that leads to living a carnal life and eventually leads to the eternal lake of fire.

If we're on the narrow path, we'll find ourselves being transformed day by day into the image of God and we'll find ourselves growing more and more into holy living sinning less and less all the time because we're putting off the old man.

We're Romans 10:1,2 - the living sacrifice.

Sure we still sin because we have an old carnal man that's desire isn't the same desire as the new man who's desire is to love God with all its heart, soul, mind and strength. It wants to obey God and serve Him and please Him with all their heart. That's why we're told to continually put off the old man and to put on the new man because if we live by the one (old), it won't allow the other (new) to do what it wants and vice versa. So throw off the old man and put on Christ.

So when we do sin, we must confess and repent of it. If we struggle with stopping the sin, we pray and ask for God to help us and He will. Some could care less about their sin. I've heard friends say, "well this is just the way I am." Well if it's sin, God says to stop it. And He helps us in our weakness to overcome. It may take some time as we learn and grow in Him, but we can have victory over living a life of sin.

What does that look like? We aren't practicing sin. We're practicing holiness and righteousness. That's our new nature. We're convicted when we do sin and we don't make a habit of it anymore. Sin no longer is master.

Maybe I'm not understanding Him correctly, but that's kind of what I got from listening to him.

May we all grow in the wisdom and knowledge of our precious Savior and Lord, Jesus the begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.

Let me tell you a few things

a) I am missing no point
b) Have been dealing with his heresy for some time
c) To say a believer does not sin or can lose salvation is false
d) Have facts before you step in and interject yourself

No offence meant!

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

The same one that in zeal made a whip and drove the money changers from the temple...His name is Jesus
a) He like us, cannot stand (the actions) of deceivers who twist, reject and deny the truth!
b) You should trust him and his righteousness instead of your own good works!

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

dcontroversal said:

I use multitudes of scripture to confirm the Truth and prove all things by the words of God. If you believe my views which I support by the scriptures is wrong, then point out the error in them instead just bringing railings and false accusations all the time. By the way, I do trust in the Lord's righteousness not my own, it is by Him we can do His will and good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

dcontroversal said:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

Such heresy!

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

Why yes!!!! Thank you sweetie.

passing_through · Nov 23, 2016

Persuaded said:

Shoot, naw man, I don't think your taking this too far. lol

Wow, man did someone forget to take their pills today. Just kidding

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

a) Satan quotes scripture and every day false teachers like yourself will twist, embellish and take scripture out of context so your statement means nothing
b) Many have proven you are in error dia the truth
c) You trust your works and self righteous deeds and are deceived about your own sin.

If you are gonna quote me, give the whole quote

And still waiting on a simple yes or no..DO YOU SIN?

YES OR NO!

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Quote chapter one as well..
IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN, WE ARE DECEIVED AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US!

Desertsrose · Nov 23, 2016

dcontroversal said:

Hi dcontroversial,

I'm fairly new here so I don't know his general point of view nor yours. I only spoke to what I read. So maybe you know where he's coming from more so than I do.

I have the facts (it's the post I spoke to) and so based on the facts (what the OP wrote) my opinion is still that I think you're missing the point of what he shared only. Like I said, I'm new and maybe I wouldn't agree with everything he believes.

I can't speak to what he believes about we can't sin or what he means because I haven't read enough here on the site.

In my mind, we can't continue in continual sin because with a born again person, God just won't allow it. He'll convict us so that we'll repent. He'll send a loving brother or sister to speak into our lives. He'll have the church remove the sinner and no one is to have fellowship with him/her until they repent and then they can be restored to fellowship. His mercies are new every morning; great is His faithfulness.

No offense taken; you seem to be full of hate. If I thought a person was misunderstanding scripture, I'd be trying to have a civil discussion with him/her, trying to understand their point of view and share scripture. I'd be praying for someone if I thought they were following heresy, and try to win them over to God's point of view. I'd be motivated by love instead of hate. At some point it may be that fellowship needs to be cut off from someone, but if that were to happen, I'd still pray for them so they'd be restored to truth-motivated out of love for their soul.

You'll probably hate me too because I also believe that a person call fall away from the Lord. I could quote some scriptures, but I don't think they would help you. I'll just say that there will be a huge apostasy before the Lord returns. Jesus said it, not me. To apostasize means renunciation from a religion.

No need to respond to my post if you don't want a civil discussion, a discussion in brotherly/sisterly love. So sad, really, when we can't be motivated out of love when we converse in a CHRISTIAN forum.

I wish you well - may we all come to the knowledge of the truth.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 24, 2016

Here is another example of this strong delusion of a disassociated identity. Again notice, they say their spirit does not sin, but their body is sinful and keeps on sinning.

PeterJens · Nov 24, 2016

Was Paul a dualist? No. Paul was pointing out we have desires impulses that
lead us to certain behaviour which we wished we stopped by we just do.

Because we do not have control or understanding of these things does not
mean they cannot come into submission to Christ.

Do we choose when we get angry or sad? We know there are triggers, like
a waterfall, and we learn to change the triggers and the process.

This is part of discipleship and perception. These things can come from the wrong
way of looking at life and who we are, which Jesus changes through our interaction
with Him, our obedience to His word and our fellowship.

Unfortunately if you take the dualist view, you abdicate responsibility for yourself
and working things through.

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:12

All interaction is 50% our responsibility, no matter how good or bad the other
parties are. God calls us to take ownership of our part, and go forth as Christs
body in the world.

dcontroversal · Nov 24, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

All you did was prove what a snake you really are..my quote is good and correct..by not highlighting IN ALL FORM AND FASHION/DEAD you prove two things

a) Your deceptive
b) It is obvious who leads you

Keep rejecting all the way to hell pal....and thanks for proving my points by reposting the truth that I posted..

CC world still waiting on you to answer the question....

Do you ever sin..YES OR NO?

ANSWER OR BE FOUND A LIAR AND DECEIVER!

Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

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