Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
1,403
949
113
57
My gosh girl how you have grown!

Happy New Year to you also!

The only point I don't quite agree with is the pic of the flesh rotting and hanging on. Scripture states it's the mind that needs renewed to the Word of the Lord. So daily we put our faith in this fact....we are new creations of God, and we walk in His Spirit, filled with Holy Spirit. Finished!

We don't have to die daily but reckon it truth.
Yes , the LORD is teaching me well...
I see the flesh and the spirit warring with each other , they will always be opposites until we are called home and be fully in the spirit with no flesh....
Yes our mind needs renewing everyday by feeding on the Word of God , but for now we still have the flesh that battles with our spirit everyday , that is how I get the story about the flesh hanging on...xox...
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
A new believer is considered a baby, in the bible, New Testament. It specifies, you were once babes, drinking only the milk of the word, but be rooted and grounded in Christ, so you could grow, and eat meat, the strength of the word.
I agree with you, this is why the prisons, and those who you talk with, will tell you, that there, so and so, and name their denominstion, when you ask, are you a believer, oh yes I'm so and so, sitting on death row. I know I used to sing at the bowery street mission, and what a Joy to see the HOly spirit bringing souls to the altar, to recieve him. This is the milk of a new born baby spiritual one in Christ.
God is love, and the verses that say, "you will know them by their fruits, that they belong to me. " bv. Please look it up. God is love, he that loveth not, knowth not God.
Foul mouthing people, and put downs, or their character, is not God's character, it dosn't matter, a street person, who said the sinner's prayer, or the minister behing the wood on Sunday's.
To grow up, and to develope God's character, is growing in his love.
The bible says, not to even eat with a verbal abuser, not to know an angry man, to avoid all appearances of evil, so many verses, or disassociating yourself, with those who are not santified, or not in align with the word of the Lord. How could two walk together if they do not agree, does light and darkness have anything in common. This is the danger of unsound doctrine. This is a very powerful stripture, that says, " a man's house was cleaned and garnished, spiritually talking about, the Power of the HOly spirit, cleaning your soul. Then it says, the demons that left that man, wanted to return, and the state of that person, was worse than before they knew and accepted Jesus. Why is this, because once saved saved, is not biblical, as that verse is saying.
Why does it say, his state was worse then before. He started living his life outside of the biblical scriptures, and it says, then 7 more demons, more powerful than the one that was cast out, went back and possessed and took territory over that man, his soul. More powerful, and that demon it says, came back with 6 more of demons. A believer living in the Word, and REPENTING, has access to God's throne room, for it says, no one comes to the father but through the son.
Those who do this, without repentance, have a wide door open for these tormentors to take terrotory in their lives, and bind, and these things that they have not repented from become a stronghold. The word says, to bind up the strongman, and cast him out, LUke 10:19 For I have given you authority. A possession of an unclean spirit, to cast it out. The danger part of thinking someone is osas, is there following a denomination's teachings, and not following what the word says, and what Jesus' taught, and was beaten for, gave his life for, and went to Calvary, Rose from the Grave, and said, " my spirit I leave with you." Constantly doing something, that is not in align with God's teachings, is a demonic stronghold. This scripture is what this is talking about, the door has been opened, and 7 more powerful demons came into that man, his state was worse than he was before. Thank you for bringing this awarness, up. Anyone could recite a sinner's prayer, and then, not live according to the word of God, is not a real believer, and sinning, seperates us from God.


 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
Another example of this how many demons Jesus cast out of the boy, it said legions. Their are possesions, without Christ, and there are strongholds, without repentances, for sin seperates us from God.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
One more thing, then I'm done here. There was a minister that said, no matter what you do, you will not lose your salvation. You wouldn't believe what that did to one person, he got into all things, had children out of wedlock, robberiey, jail's prostitures, prison, self destruction, physical abuses, on etc. This sound like those 8 demons strong came to him, without his repenting, and yes his is worse now then ever, and is on his way to full destruction. "for the devil comes to rob, steal and destroy. How could anybody believe such a lie. Sin seperates us from a Holy God, John said, repent, for the day of the Lord is at hand. REpentance leads to salvation.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,209
212
63
One more thing, then I'm done here. There was a minister that said, no matter what you do, you will not lose your salvation. You wouldn't believe what that did to one person, he got into all things, had children out of wedlock, robberiey, jail's prostitures, prison, self destruction, physical abuses, on etc. This sound like those 8 demons strong came to him, without his repenting, and yes his is worse now then ever, and is on his way to full destruction. "for the devil comes to rob, steal and destroy. How could anybody believe such a lie. Sin seperates us from a Holy God, John said, repent, for the day of the Lord is at hand. REpentance leads to salvation.
Can you please verify the source of the story please?
Did the pastor get up, say only hat and walk off the pulpit?
Or did the person hear that and only that?
Is it the pastors fault or the person's own wicked heart thinking he can do whatever he wants without any form of conscience?
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
Can you please verify the source of the story please?
Did the pastor get up, say only hat and walk off the pulpit?
Or did the person hear that and only that?
Is it the pastors fault or the person's own wicked heart thinking he can do whatever he wants without any form of conscience?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
3,847
113
Yes, this is totally false, I agree.

But I have never heard anybody to teach this. What I always heard and what is biblical and logical, is this:

If you are truly saved by a true faith, if you are born again from the Spirit, God will preserve you to the end. I.E. you will be repentant, you will be faithful to the end, by the grace of God.
yes

because God is faithful -- one of the things He has promised is "I will give you a new heart" -- and He is faithful; He will complete the work He began :)

 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
  • Luke 11:25 Commentaries: "And when it comes, it finds it ...
    https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces.
  • Luke 11:25 On its return, it finds the house swept clean ...
    https://biblehub.com/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces.
  • Luke 11:25 - When it arrives, it finds the house swept ...
    https://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/11-25-compare.html
    Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces. It is not furnished with any true grace; it is all paint and varnish, not real nor lasting.
  • Luke 11:25 And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished.
    bibleapps.com/commentaries/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces. It is not furnished with any true grace; it …
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,209
212
63
  • Luke 11:25 Commentaries: "And when it comes, it finds it ...
    https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces.
  • Luke 11:25 On its return, it finds the house swept clean ...
    https://biblehub.com/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces.
  • Luke 11:25 - When it arrives, it finds the house swept ...
    https://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/11-25-compare.html
    Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces. It is not furnished with any true grace; it is all paint and varnish, not real nor lasting.
  • Luke 11:25 And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished.
    bibleapps.com/commentaries/luke/11-25.htm
    The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces. It is not furnished with any true grace; it …
I'm talking about the story of the pastor and the person who went off and sinned.
Source?
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,399
264
83
A new believer is considered a baby, in the bible, New Testament. It specifies, you were once babes, drinking only the milk of the word, but be rooted and grounded in Christ, so you could grow, and eat meat, the strength of the word.
I agree with you, this is why the prisons, and those who you talk with, will tell you, that there, so and so, and name their denominstion, when you ask, are you a believer, oh yes I'm so and so, sitting on death row. I know I used to sing at the bowery street mission, and what a Joy to see the HOly spirit bringing souls to the altar, to recieve him. This is the milk of a new born baby spiritual one in Christ.
God is love, and the verses that say, "you will know them by their fruits, that they belong to me. " bv. Please look it up. God is love, he that loveth not, knowth not God.
Foul mouthing people, and put downs, or their character, is not God's character, it dosn't matter, a street person, who said the sinner's prayer, or the minister behing the wood on Sunday's.
To grow up, and to develope God's character, is growing in his love.
The bible says, not to even eat with a verbal abuser, not to know an angry man, to avoid all appearances of evil, so many verses, or disassociating yourself, with those who are not santified, or not in align with the word of the Lord. How could two walk together if they do not agree, does light and darkness have anything in common. This is the danger of unsound doctrine. This is a very powerful stripture, that says, " a man's house was cleaned and garnished, spiritually talking about, the Power of the HOly spirit, cleaning your soul. Then it says, the demons that left that man, wanted to return, and the state of that person, was worse than before they knew and accepted Jesus. Why is this, because once saved saved, is not biblical, as that verse is saying.
Why does it say, his state was worse then before. He started living his life outside of the biblical scriptures, and it says, then 7 more demons, more powerful than the one that was cast out, went back and possessed and took territory over that man, his soul. More powerful, and that demon it says, came back with 6 more of demons. A believer living in the Word, and REPENTING, has access to God's throne room, for it says, no one comes to the father but through the son.
Those who do this, without repentance, have a wide door open for these tormentors to take terrotory in their lives, and bind, and these things that they have not repented from become a stronghold. The word says, to bind up the strongman, and cast him out, LUke 10:19 For I have given you authority. A possession of an unclean spirit, to cast it out. The danger part of thinking someone is osas, is there following a denomination's teachings, and not following what the word says, and what Jesus' taught, and was beaten for, gave his life for, and went to Calvary, Rose from the Grave, and said, " my spirit I leave with you." Constantly doing something, that is not in align with God's teachings, is a demonic stronghold. This scripture is what this is talking about, the door has been opened, and 7 more powerful demons came into that man, his state was worse than he was before. Thank you for bringing this awarness, up. Anyone could recite a sinner's prayer, and then, not live according to the word of God, is not a real believer, and sinning, seperates us from God.
You don't believe what the bible is saying then. This is just the quote of the scripture below.
A new believer is considered a baby, in the bible, New Testament. It specifies, you were once babes, drinking only the milk of the word, but be rooted and grounded in Christ, so you could grow, and eat meat, the strength of the word.
I agree with you, this is why the prisons, and those who you talk with, will tell you, that there, so and so, and name their denominstion, when you ask, are you a believer, oh yes I'm so and so, sitting on death row. I know I used to sing at the bowery street mission, and what a Joy to see the HOly spirit bringing souls to the altar, to recieve him. This is the milk of a new born baby spiritual one in Christ.
God is love, and the verses that say, "you will know them by their fruits, that they belong to me. " bv. Please look it up. God is love, he that loveth not, knowth not God.
Foul mouthing people, and put downs, or their character, is not God's character, it dosn't matter, a street person, who said the sinner's prayer, or the minister behing the wood on Sunday's.
To grow up, and to develope God's character, is growing in his love.
The bible says, not to even eat with a verbal abuser, not to know an angry man, to avoid all appearances of evil, so many verses, or disassociating yourself, with those who are not santified, or not in align with the word of the Lord. How could two walk together if they do not agree, does light and darkness have anything in common. This is the danger of unsound doctrine. This is a very powerful stripture, that says, " a man's house was cleaned and garnished, spiritually talking about, the Power of the HOly spirit, cleaning your soul. Then it says, the demons that left that man, wanted to return, and the state of that person, was worse than before they knew and accepted Jesus. Why is this, because once saved saved, is not biblical, as that verse is saying.
Why does it say, his state was worse then before. He started living his life outside of the biblical scriptures, and it says, then 7 more demons, more powerful than the one that was cast out, went back and possessed and took territory over that man, his soul. More powerful, and that demon it says, came back with 6 more of demons. A believer living in the Word, and REPENTING, has access to God's throne room, for it says, no one comes to the father but through the son.
Those who do this, without repentance, have a wide door open for these tormentors to take terrotory in their lives, and bind, and these things that they have not repented from become a stronghold. The word says, to bind up the strongman, and cast him out, LUke 10:19 For I have given you authority. A possession of an unclean spirit, to cast it out. The danger part of thinking someone is osas, is there following a denomination's teachings, and not following what the word says, and what Jesus' taught, and was beaten for, gave his life for, and went to Calvary, Rose from the Grave, and said, " my spirit I leave with you." Constantly doing something, that is not in align with God's teachings, is a demonic stronghold. This scripture is what this is talking about, the door has been opened, and 7 more powerful demons came into that man, his state was worse than he was before. Thank you for bringing this awarness, up. Anyone could recite a sinner's prayer, and then, not live according to the word of God, is not a real believer, and sinning, seperates us from God.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
You don't believe what the bible is saying then. This is just the quote of the scripture below.
There is a big difference between not believing the bible, and not believing false conclusions of man/woman like:

"The danger part of thinking someone is osas, is there following a denomination's teachings, and not following what the word says"


If you believe the bible says God will lose even one of His own children... you are not understanding what is in the bible.


Anyone can twist the bible to say things it doesn't say, but with context in mind it is not possible for a born again believer to be forsaken or cast out or plucked out of His hand....

Who's power are we kept by?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,129
2,048
113
Looks like it's time for a bi-yearly posting of the 101 Reasons for eternal Security. Mostly for the newbies: And no, I didn't compose this:

101 BIBLE REASONS PROVING
ETERNAL SECURITY


1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

2. The believer is born of God.

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

3. Christ will raise every believer up at the last day.

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

4. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

5. The believer is not the object of God’s wrath.

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

6. Believer are God’s sheep.

John 10:2-4: “But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”

7. The believer will not listen to nor follow a stranger, but will flee from him.

John 10:5: “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (The stranger here is Satan and his false teachers.)

8. The believer is known of God.

John 10:14: “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

9. The believer listens to the voice of the shepherd.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

10. The believer is in Christ’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

11. The believer is in the Father’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:29: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

12. The shepherd is charged with the responsibility of keeping the sheep.

John 10:11-14: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

13. The believer is not condemned.

John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15. The believer will keep Christ’s commandments.

John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

16. The believer is secure because of Christ’s prayer.

John 17:9-12: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee, Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

17. The believer shall never die.

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

18. The believer to be kept from the evil.

John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

Jesus prays that the believer may be kept from the Devil. Was this prayer answered?

19. The believer to be with Christ in glory.

John 17:24: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

20. The believer shall never hunger.

John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

21. The believer will in no wise be cast out (Not under any circumstance).

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

22. Christ will not lose a single believer.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

23. Christ will raise up the believer at the last day.

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

24. Whosoever eats the bread of life shall never die.

John 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

25. Because the Holy Spirit abides in the believer forever.

John 14:16-17: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,129
2,048
113
26. Because it is the Father’s will that Christ should lose nothing.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

27. Because one cannot be unborn.

John 3:5: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God .”

28. The believer will follow Christ.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Following Christ, can one be lost? Have we any right to add to God’s Word by inserting if” to the passage?

29. The believers continue with God.

1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

30. Because it is the believer’s faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

31. Because of the record that God hath given.

1 John 5:10-11: “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”

32. The believer is to be like Christ.

1 John 3:2: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

33. The believer is kept by the power of God.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

34. The man who believes shall be saved.

Acts 16:31: “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

35. The believer has been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

36. The believer is hid by God in Christ.

Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Can the devil find that which God hides?

37. The believer shall not come into condemnation.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

38. There is now therefore no condemnation for the believer.

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

39. The believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.”

40. The believer is sealed for a definite time, the day of redemption, or the resurrection of the body.

Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

41. The believer liveth and abideth forever.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”

42. The believer is dead to sin.

Romans 6:2: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

43. The believer will appear with Christ in glory.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

44. The life of the believer is Christ’s life.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

45. Since Christ cannot die again, the believer is eternally secure.

Romans 6:9-10: “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.”

46. The believer is saved through faith not by works.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

47. This faith a gift from God.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

48. The believer is not saved by what he does, but by what Christ has done for him.

Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

49. Salvation is a gift, not a wage.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

50. The believer’s hope is a living hope.

1 Peter 1:3: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

51. The believer’s hope will not fade away. Will not grow dim.

1 Peter 1:4-5: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

52. The believer’s hope is reserved (set aside) in heaven for him.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

53. The believer’s inheritance is incorruptible.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

54. The believer’s inheritance cannot be defiled.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away reserved in heaven for you.”

55. The believer is kept through faith.

1 Peter 1:4-5: (See reasons number 36 and 37): “to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

56. The believer to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

The believer is more than conqueror through Christ.

Romans 8:37: “Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

57. The believer justified by faith, to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

58. Nothing can separate the believer from Christ.

Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

59. Christ will complete salvation until the end.

Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

60. The believer to be preserved spirit, soul, and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

61. God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”

62. Jesus is able to save unto the uttermost.

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

63. The believer is born of incorruptible seed.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Can the devil corrupt that which God says is incorruptible?

64. The believer is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

65. The believer believes unto the saving of his soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,129
2,048
113
66. The believer made righteous through Christ’s obedience.

Romans 5:18-19: “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

67. Because all things work together for good to the believer.

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

68. Because the believer is so helpless that he cannot place his sins upon Christ. God must do it for him. Therefore salvation is by grace.

Isaiah 53:6: “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

69. Because Christ did not come to help us, but to save us.

Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

70. Because God, not being a man, cannot lie.

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

71. Because His mercy endureth forever.

Psalm 136: Twenty-six times in this Psalm it is written His mercy endureth forever.”

72. Because the believer has not yet borne the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49: “And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”

73. Because the believer is preserved unto the heavenly kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”

74. Because the believer is the object of God’s mercy, not His wrath.

Ephesians 2:4: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us.”

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

75. Because a sealed and witnessed transaction is final.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:15: “Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us.”

76. Salvation is obtained, not attained.

Hebrews 9:12: “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

77. Because the believer is a new creation. Created in Christ Jesus. Therefore eternal in righteousness.

Ephesians 4:24: “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

78. Because the Father reckons the sinner:

Romans 6:3-5: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”

Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

79. Because all believers will be changed at Christ’s coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

80. Because of the “MUST” of 1 Corinthians 15:53.

1 Corinthians 15:23: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

81. Because the power of God is not limited.

Matthew 28:18-19: “And Jesus came and spake to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

82. Because the saints are preserved forever.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

83. Because nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

The answer NO” is demanded by the passage to the question.

84. Because God will not forget the believer.

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

85. Because the new covenant in His blood, is an everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

86. Because the believer has ceased from his own works.

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

87. Because we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

88. Because the believer has already been redeemed (Past tense).

2 Peter 1:18-19: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

89. Because the believer’s salvation is begun and finished by Christ.

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

90. Because salvation is by grace, and not by any mixture of grace and works.

Romans 11:6: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

91. Because Christ died. rose again, and intercedes for born again believers.

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

92. Because God predestined believers in His Truth according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of his Son, and then, in time, He calls and justifies us, and finally He will glorify us.

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

93. Because salvation IS salvation.

Hebrews 5:9: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

94. The believer cannot perish.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

95. Because God’s promise that through the offering of Christ He will put away the believer’s sins, and will remember them no more.

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

96. Because God is for us!

Romans 8:31: "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,129
2,048
113
98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
21,702
3,847
113
14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”
yes

so why do we have so many modern worship songs about being thirsty?

shouldn't we be praising Him because He satisfies our soul, hmm..?
















((thanks for reading! today's post from post's pet peeves has been brought to you by post))
 
Dec 29, 2018
68
37
18
I have spent the last 22 months studying the Bible, especially the New Testament, several hours per day. Sometimes up to 10 to 12 hours per day. I have been a Christian for 30 years but because of unemployment the last 22 months I have had a lot of time to study. I estimate I have spent about 3,500 hours studying my Bible the last 2 years.



I’m writing this post because I am concerned about a dangerous and false doctrine that permeates the Christian church.



It is the doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” or “Eternal Security”. This doctrine teaches that once a person believes in Jesus, even if it is just for one moment in time, that person is saved forever. THIS IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY CONTINUE BELIEVING OR ARE REPENTANT.



I believe that the Bible does not teach this but most Christian churches are teaching this today.



Because of the length of this post I had to make 2 posts. The original post for this thread and then the first reply is also from me to finish the post. Thank you to all who take the time to read this.



Now let me explain, using SCRIPTURE ALONE, why I think that “Once Saved Always Saved” is a lie.



Let me start with John 3: 16. Perhaps the most famous verse in the Bible. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”



We also have John 5: 24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”



And John 6: 47 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”



So what do these 3 verses have in common? The Greek word for faith/believe is Pistis. It is in the present tense in the Greek in all of these verses. The present tense in Greek denotes a “kind of action” that is continuous. It means a CONTINUAL coming to Christ in faith.



The Christian church for the most part teaches that you can “accept Christ” by believing in Him and you have “eternal life”. No repentance required. No continuing in faith. Just walk that aisle and “get saved”. This is giving many people in the church a false belief that they are saved.



Eternal Life isn’t something that is deposited inside of you which is how many Christians think of it. I think the term “born again” adds to the confusion. Also people think that the sealing of the Holy Spirit in Ephesians 1: 13 and Ephesians 4: 30 is permanent.



BEING “BORN AGAIN” AND “SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT” ARE BOTH REVERSIBLE IN THE BIBLE. THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THERE ARE AT LEAST 2 CLASSES OF GENUINE BELIEVERS.



How do I know these 2 things? In this post I will try to show you why these statements are true. Let me give you some examples from SCRIPTURE ALONE. Not my opinions.



You will find the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8. The version in Luke 8 is especially helpful. Let us take a close look at the second and fourth soils in these parables and also compare it with John 15 and the parable of the vine and branches.



What does Jesus say about the second soil? He says five specific things:



1 - Mark 4: 5, That the soil is rocky with not much depth of earth (a bad heart).

2 - Luke 8: 6, That it sprang up.

3 - Luke 8: 13, That in the time of testing/temptation they immediately fall away

4 - Luke 8: 6, That it withered away

5 - Luke 8: 13, That they BELIEVE for a while



The last point is especially important. I have spoken with people who believe in Eternal Security/Once Saved Always Saved and they always try and tell me that the second soil never really believed. They are calling Jesus a liar. Probably not on purpose but that is what they are saying.



Jesus Himself says that the second soil REALLY BELIEVES. That is what the Scripture says.



Now let’s look at John 15: 1-6 and see how it relates to the second soil:



In this parable Jesus is talking about remaining in Him which we do by faith. What happens to the branch in John 15: 6? He loses his faith and is broken off from the vine. So what is the fate of this branch? It is the same as the second soil.



He withers and dies. The same description as what happens to the second soil when he falls away.

And we are told in John 15: 6 the branches are gathered and thrown into the fire and burned. This is an obvious reference to the Lake of Fire and the second death.



What does it say about the fourth soil? That they hear the word with a “Good and Sincere” heart. They are good soil. They bear fruit with patience as the parable tells us.



SO YOU SEE WE HAVE AT LEAST TWO CLASSES OF REAL BELIEVERS.



One with good and sincere hearts (the fourth soil) and one with bad hearts (the second soil which is rocky). If you examine the three versions of this parable closely you will see that the condition of the soil is equal to the condition of the heart.



It also helps to look at John 2: 23-25 and also John 8: 31. These are both second soil type believers. How do we know this? What does Jesus Himself say about them in these two passages?



To paraphrase John 2: 23-25, “…many BELIEVED in Jesus but Jesus did not believe in them…” Why did Jesus not believe in these BELIEVERS? He tells you in the verses. They have bad hearts. They don’t really love Him. They won’t stay long.



Same thing in John 8: 31 when Jesus says to those that BELIEVED in Him that “…if you continue in My word then you are really My disciples…”



The Scripture in both these passages says that these people REALLY BELIEVED. The same thing as what Jesus says about the second soil and the branch in John 15.



THESE ARE FOUR DIFFERENT PASSAGES THAT SHOW THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO CLASSES OF GENUINE BELIEVERS. To deny this is to deny Scripture and call Jesus a liar. These are not my opinions.



So how does the “new birth” work, and being “sealed with the Holy Spirit” work?



To use a crude analogy it works like electricity. Please hear me. I am not saying Jesus is electricity. He is infinitely greater obviously. I am trying to use an analogy to get the point across. I am trying to get you to think about how the “new birth” and “sealing” work in the biblical way.



Like I said earlier, many Christians think the “new birth” and “sealing by the Holy Spirit” are one-time things that are permanent and irreversible. This is false. Let me show you:



Remember John 15 and the vine and branches we just talked about? Jesus is the vine and we are the branches just as the parable tells us. What does a vine do?



It pushes it’s life giving sap into the branches otherwise the branches would die. Just like electricity lights a light bulb.



Ephesians 2: 1 says that we are all dead in sins. We have all been born physically alive thanks to our parents but spiritually dead thanks to Adam and Eve and their lack of faith in the Garden.



We are all empty vessels, or empty light bulbs if you will, walking around that need to be filled with Christ’s Spirit. How does that happen?



Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3: 3, “..you must be born again…” How?



By faith in Christ. You are that empty light bulb/vessel. When you believe in Him you flip the light switch on and the electricity/Jesus heats up the filament (your dead spirit) and causes the light bulb to shine. So when people see a true Christian they are seeing Jesus shining bright through that person.



As soon as you believe you are “born again” and “sealed with the Holy Spirit”. When we read of conversions in the book of Acts it works just like that.



But can you become “unborn” and “unsealed”? The biblical answer is YES.



This terminology is a stumbling block to the person who believes in Eternal Security/OSAS. The reason it is a stumbling block is because they think the “new birth” and “sealing” are irreversible. They are not. YOUR FAITH IS ALWAYS REQUIRED YOUR WHOLE LIFE UNTIL YOU DIE AND YOUR FAITH COMES FROM YOU ALONE. JESUS DOES NOT BELIEVE FOR YOU.



It works like electricity. When you stop trusting in Christ, you flip the light switch off. No more electricity/Jesus. The filament goes cold just like when you turn off a light bulb and there is no more light. Jesus’ presence has left you because you don’t have faith in Him anymore.



This fits the exact five details that I gave you earlier about the second soil. Remember them?



1 - “Rocky Soil” = Bad heart that doesn’t really love God

2 - “Life springs up.” This one is very important. We are all born dead spiritually with no life in us. Only God has spiritual life. Their faith was real because they were attached to His life giving Spirit.

3 - “In the time of testing/temptation they immediately fall away” This is more proof of a bad heart. You can’t “fall away” unless you had real faith.

4 - “they withered away” Just like the branch in John 15 that stopped believing also. They withered because Christ’s life was in them and now Christ’s Spirit has left them when they flipped the light switch off.

5 - JESUS SAYS THEY WERE REAL BELIEVERS. The eternal security/OSAS must stop denying that this is true. Jesus says it is true. But these people have bad hearts and don’t love Him so they lose their faith and perish.



What about the “sealing by the Holy Spirit” in Ephesians 1: 13 and Ephesian 4: 30?


POST CONTINUED IN FIRST REPLY
Since God is outside of time and He knows who will truly follow Him why would He save someone He knows will only follow for a season then walk away?
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,209
212
63
Since God is outside of time and He knows who will truly follow Him why would He save someone He knows will only follow for a season then walk away?
I haven't been to one church that preaches OSAS.

The only place I ever hear about it is on here.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,050
2,140
113
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

In days of old from even before Moses we have a witness of the faith of Messiah in Abraham.
What was this faith? That Abram believed Elohim, (God) and it was credited to him as righteousness. What is Faith from a scriptural perspective? It is the keeping and observing of the Law of Elohim. Not in order to be saved or get salvation however. If we obey the Father's instructions we do it because we have been saved. It is not the law which is how we know we are sinners. It is by the Spirit of the law that we continue to walk in obedience to Messiah.
People it isn't that hard to understand. Not unlike wisdom.
How does one get wisdom? They ask Elohim who gives wisdom freely. What is the beginning of wisdom? The fear of Elohim. And to resist evil is understanding.
What evilness is by the way is easily to describe as being away from God. In other words sinning.
What is sin? Violation of the Law of Elohim.
I hope this makes sense to someone. Shalom John Talmid
Yes, perfect sense, thank you. kAbraham also received the Gospel if the Epistles are correct.

The biggest problem with most folks who claim the Blood of Yeshua, Christ, is although they say they are not yet perfect and still sin, they do not recognize the law as taught by our Savior…….this is a shame, and leads to much disappointment for not having learned of Him directly.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
1,366
512
113
Is oSAS a calvinist thing. I always get confused about them when they claim they are Gods chosen before they are even born . And everyone else is...not.