Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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My free will caused me to ask him to save me. because I could not save myself. And he promised that no matter what, He will never let me go, EVER..
No, That's a lie. Thats a strawman argument, used to put down something people do not understand. I have free will.
Because God promised me I will never die, I will live forever, I will never hunger and thirst, I HAVE in my possession eternal life. I willbe risen on thee last day, I have passed from death to Life. I have been made a new creature in christ, I have been given the HS as a seal, I have been justified freely, I have been given all things in christ, I have been adopted by God as his child. I was given the right why? Because I have believed in his name (trusted in him)
And these are just a few reasons as stated as facts from the word of God
all I can ask is this, Why do you lack faith in God? Why are you not holding onto the promises of God and still trying to save yourself? (I ask, because if you had faith like I do. non of the things you are using to deny eternal security would make a bit of sense to you.)
No, That's a lie. Thats a strawman argument, used to put down something people do not understand. I have free will.
Because God promised me I will never die, I will live forever, I will never hunger and thirst, I HAVE in my possession eternal life. I willbe risen on thee last day, I have passed from death to Life. I have been made a new creature in christ, I have been given the HS as a seal, I have been justified freely, I have been given all things in christ, I have been adopted by God as his child. I was given the right why? Because I have believed in his name (trusted in him)
And these are just a few reasons as stated as facts from the word of God
all I can ask is this, Why do you lack faith in God? Why are you not holding onto the promises of God and still trying to save yourself? (I ask, because if you had faith like I do. non of the things you are using to deny eternal security would make a bit of sense to you.)
I personally believe that believers joined as one spirit with the Lord and that become new creation in Christ - that they some how become "un-born again" and become un-joined with the Lord - is the #1 worse doctrine that has ever been perpetrated on the body of Christ.
This false doctrine has caused more harm to immature believers than any other doctrine.
It causes them to trust in themselves - in what they can do to make themselves saved. It is a grace-killer. We live by faith in what grace has provided in Christ. The whole Christian life from start to finish is based on what Christ has already done by His grace and it is accessed by faith. The hearing of Christ brings faith. Rom. 10:17
True faith is of the heart and not in the mind of man. It is with the heart that man believes. We can get screwy in our thinking because of circumstances and false teachings.
Take the teaching where God kills your little children because you somehow did something wrong. That would cause your emotions and mind to become a mess and not trust God from an emotional and mind frame point of view - yet your heart - the inner man in Christ is still in righteousness and holiness because it is joined as one to the Lord.
It brings dis-trust to the Lord who said "I will never leave you nor forsake you." It makes Jesus a liar when He said " The Holy Spirit with be with you and in you forever". John 14:16
How can you trust someone when they say one thing but "actually mean something totally different?" You can't. The doctrine of losing salvation as in the Lord will be separated from you undermines the human being's ability to trust in the Lord at a heart and emotional level.
I have a medical background and have heard psychiatrists talk about a lot of people in asylums and with mental disorders are from religious Christian backgrounds where they feel they have done some thing and the Lord has forsaken them.
The preaching and teaching of the grace and love of God is exactly what is needed to grow up in Christ so that the situations of life don't wreck our lives here on earth. Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life" and not losing one's salvation as in not being with the Lord.
They had a lot to say about the deeds of the body here on earth and what destruction they can bring in this life as well - these are great admonishments for us and these warnings are a blessing to us.
But let's not water down the gospel because of fear of mis-use. The gospel is the power of God for salvation. We need to hear the gospel every day.
This false doctrine has caused more harm to immature believers than any other doctrine.
It causes them to trust in themselves - in what they can do to make themselves saved. It is a grace-killer. We live by faith in what grace has provided in Christ. The whole Christian life from start to finish is based on what Christ has already done by His grace and it is accessed by faith. The hearing of Christ brings faith. Rom. 10:17
True faith is of the heart and not in the mind of man. It is with the heart that man believes. We can get screwy in our thinking because of circumstances and false teachings.
Take the teaching where God kills your little children because you somehow did something wrong. That would cause your emotions and mind to become a mess and not trust God from an emotional and mind frame point of view - yet your heart - the inner man in Christ is still in righteousness and holiness because it is joined as one to the Lord.
It brings dis-trust to the Lord who said "I will never leave you nor forsake you." It makes Jesus a liar when He said " The Holy Spirit with be with you and in you forever". John 14:16
How can you trust someone when they say one thing but "actually mean something totally different?" You can't. The doctrine of losing salvation as in the Lord will be separated from you undermines the human being's ability to trust in the Lord at a heart and emotional level.
I have a medical background and have heard psychiatrists talk about a lot of people in asylums and with mental disorders are from religious Christian backgrounds where they feel they have done some thing and the Lord has forsaken them.
The preaching and teaching of the grace and love of God is exactly what is needed to grow up in Christ so that the situations of life don't wreck our lives here on earth. Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life" and not losing one's salvation as in not being with the Lord.
They had a lot to say about the deeds of the body here on earth and what destruction they can bring in this life as well - these are great admonishments for us and these warnings are a blessing to us.
But let's not water down the gospel because of fear of mis-use. The gospel is the power of God for salvation. We need to hear the gospel every day.
Salvation is a walk not arriving
If you leave the walk, how can you claim to be part of God anymore, that
would be absurd.
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16
If people have ceased believing, then they will perish.
If one is saved and there is no choice, then Jesus's words are a lie, because He will
disown anyone who disowns Him. Think about the implications of this one thing.
If we disown him, he will also disown us
2 Tim 2:12
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10:33
This is a walk of love and trust, where our words and intentions matter and everything
hangs on giving and receiving in Christ.
But for some relationships, love and trust are too difficult, they want certainty, because
the distrust words and love, even though this is the foundation of Christ himself.
If you leave the walk, how can you claim to be part of God anymore, that
would be absurd.
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16
If people have ceased believing, then they will perish.
If one is saved and there is no choice, then Jesus's words are a lie, because He will
disown anyone who disowns Him. Think about the implications of this one thing.
If we disown him, he will also disown us
2 Tim 2:12
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10:33
This is a walk of love and trust, where our words and intentions matter and everything
hangs on giving and receiving in Christ.
But for some relationships, love and trust are too difficult, they want certainty, because
the distrust words and love, even though this is the foundation of Christ himself.
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If someone preaches salvation is anything other than faith in christ. Run from that person. He or she is preaching works. They are trying to save themselves. and trying to get you to follow them in their way to destruction.
1. Salvation is not a walk, that is sanctification, and is only applicable to those who ARE ALREADY SAVED
2. Salvation is a state, We are saved or we are not. If not saved, we are in the world (also IN ADAM). and headed to destruction, because we are dead to Christ.
If saved, We are Not of this world. we are strangers in a land which is not our own, and our destination is a and that christ went to make for us, we are IN CHRIST, and headed to heaven.
1. Salvation is not a walk, that is sanctification, and is only applicable to those who ARE ALREADY SAVED
2. Salvation is a state, We are saved or we are not. If not saved, we are in the world (also IN ADAM). and headed to destruction, because we are dead to Christ.
If saved, We are Not of this world. we are strangers in a land which is not our own, and our destination is a and that christ went to make for us, we are IN CHRIST, and headed to heaven.
If you do a word study on "deny" as in 2 Tim 2:12 - you will find that the root word means to "contradict". Contradict means to say the opposite of or to deny the truth of.
If you contradict what Christ has done before men - He will contradict what you are saying before the Father. Which is why Paul says "He cannot deny or contradict Himself".
2 Timothy 2:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[SUP]13[/SUP] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
One application would be this " I am a worm and am nothing but a mess". Jesus says to the Father - they are the righteousness of God in Me. Holy and blameless because I redeemed them with My blood and I have made them worthy!
Jesus contradicts what we say.
arneomai - to deny, refuse
perhaps from <G1> (a) (as a negative particle) and the middle of <G4483> (rheo); to contradict
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
If you contradict what Christ has done before men - He will contradict what you are saying before the Father. Which is why Paul says "He cannot deny or contradict Himself".
2 Timothy 2:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[SUP]13[/SUP] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
One application would be this " I am a worm and am nothing but a mess". Jesus says to the Father - they are the righteousness of God in Me. Holy and blameless because I redeemed them with My blood and I have made them worthy!
Jesus contradicts what we say.
arneomai - to deny, refuse
perhaps from <G1> (a) (as a negative particle) and the middle of <G4483> (rheo); to contradict
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
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Amen! In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.
Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 10:9; 14:6).
The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:22-23, but lack saving faith) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 10:9; 14:6).
The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:22-23, but lack saving faith) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
The Lord didn't separate the Law into 3 parts and abolish two of the parts. None of it was abolished. It was all fulfilled. ALL.
There's no such thing as a moral law. But I see how you could apply the Holy Spirit as causing a person to want to keep a moral law.
The Holy Spirit is the cause inside of us for walking the way God wants us to walk. So if you say that is according to a moral law that kind of leaves a way to twist things but I guess I can almost agree with it. I would rather say that it is how we walk by the spirit. So there is no doubt that you are keeping your will and understanding of the law out of it.
But at some point I do have to say that the fruit of the Spirit is what keeps the spiritual law. So even though I don't want to leave the door open for your understanding and will to be able to keep a "moral" law I suppose its almost more of an argument of terms...
The Lord has said without me you can do nothing. That is speaking directly to the spiritual law and the Holy Spirit required to walk in that spiritual law.
Why people call it a moral law, I do not know. Nowhere in the bible is there any reference to a moral law. Not sure what bible people read nowadays. But call it what you will you still need God in order to keep Gods "morals".
The reason I think you understand this and are not trying to twist terms to put people back to work at their carnal understanding is because of the small part of your post concerning Romans 1-5. I completely and 100% agree with you in that regard. If you are saying what I think you are saying.... Which is roughly "Without the Lord we can do nothing".
There's no such thing as a moral law. But I see how you could apply the Holy Spirit as causing a person to want to keep a moral law.
The Holy Spirit is the cause inside of us for walking the way God wants us to walk. So if you say that is according to a moral law that kind of leaves a way to twist things but I guess I can almost agree with it. I would rather say that it is how we walk by the spirit. So there is no doubt that you are keeping your will and understanding of the law out of it.
But at some point I do have to say that the fruit of the Spirit is what keeps the spiritual law. So even though I don't want to leave the door open for your understanding and will to be able to keep a "moral" law I suppose its almost more of an argument of terms...
The Lord has said without me you can do nothing. That is speaking directly to the spiritual law and the Holy Spirit required to walk in that spiritual law.
Why people call it a moral law, I do not know. Nowhere in the bible is there any reference to a moral law. Not sure what bible people read nowadays. But call it what you will you still need God in order to keep Gods "morals".
The reason I think you understand this and are not trying to twist terms to put people back to work at their carnal understanding is because of the small part of your post concerning Romans 1-5. I completely and 100% agree with you in that regard. If you are saying what I think you are saying.... Which is roughly "Without the Lord we can do nothing".
Try to cease believing in anything.
Cease believing in gravity.
Cease believing in thermodynamics.
Cease believing that fire is hot and ice is cold.
Once you know something how do you cease to know it? Is it possible? And if you somehow were able to, which I highly doubt, would it be able to change any of the facts by your pretending?
Cease believing in gravity.
Cease believing in thermodynamics.
Cease believing that fire is hot and ice is cold.
Once you know something how do you cease to know it? Is it possible? And if you somehow were able to, which I highly doubt, would it be able to change any of the facts by your pretending?
Salvation is a rest which includes resting in Him to help you walk in Him. If you leave the walk in Him when you are trusting Him as your Good Shepherd, then He will make you to lie down in the green pastures, He will lea you besides the still waters, He will restore your soul; He will lead you in the path of righteousness for His name's sake because you are trusting Him as your Good Shepherd. That is what it means to rest in Him as Savior & Lord of your life because He is.
Explain this then where Jesus Christ still abides in former believers which is why we are to give even them the call to go to Jesus Christ for the answers that turned them away from believing in Him.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. KJV
Read that verse 13? Read it again with His help, because it reproves what you are saying here. And there is more.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]
Read verse 18 with His help? That means all those saints that turned away from Him because of the lie of the evolution theory are still His for He still abides. They are at risk of being denied by Him at the pre trib rapture event, but those left behind He still abides in them for they are still in His House but as vessels unto dishonor for not looking to Him for help as our Good Shepherd in discerning by the KJV in departing from exposed iniquity by the KJV.
That is what the vessels unto dishonor are in His House as unrepentant workers of iniquity. That is why by departing from iniquity is how they are received as vessels unto honor in His House.
19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Do you seek certainty in others or in yourself? How you look for certainty in yourself when you have no confidence in your flesh or will power to do? Do you not totally rely on the Lord Jesus Christ or nor to help you to follow Him? Then if your certainty is believing in Jesus and trusting Him as your Good Shepherd, why do you insist others to look for certainty in themselves when their confidence should be in Christ Jesus? Why say "You are not trying hard enough because you are not repenting" when you should be praying with him saying, "Lord Jesus... help my brother by delivering him from his sins to no longer live in them to have sin dominion over his life. I do not want him to be left behind when you come." ?
Faith in yourself? Or faith in Jesus Christ?
How we follow Him does matter because if you are not resting in Him as your Good Shepherd, trusting Him to help you to follow Him since He is in you and is with you always, then I can understand why many believers look for certainty from others as if they look for some boast in the flesh and will power of man to "see" that they are beinh serious in what they say.
And yet no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Oh how brothers are persecuted and condemned as unsaved or not trying hard enough or are a liar by fellow believers when they tried to do the best they can and have failed; and so they walk away, seeing how they cannot do it.
See a christian living in sin? Correct him or her by the grace of God and His help since it is on Him to cause the increase. Lift up his eyes to Him for the help he needs to repent to rely on Him all the time for the help in following Him.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
Explain this then where Jesus Christ still abides in former believers which is why we are to give even them the call to go to Jesus Christ for the answers that turned them away from believing in Him.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. KJV
Read that verse 13? Read it again with His help, because it reproves what you are saying here. And there is more.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]
Read verse 18 with His help? That means all those saints that turned away from Him because of the lie of the evolution theory are still His for He still abides. They are at risk of being denied by Him at the pre trib rapture event, but those left behind He still abides in them for they are still in His House but as vessels unto dishonor for not looking to Him for help as our Good Shepherd in discerning by the KJV in departing from exposed iniquity by the KJV.
That is what the vessels unto dishonor are in His House as unrepentant workers of iniquity. That is why by departing from iniquity is how they are received as vessels unto honor in His House.
19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Do you seek certainty in others or in yourself? How you look for certainty in yourself when you have no confidence in your flesh or will power to do? Do you not totally rely on the Lord Jesus Christ or nor to help you to follow Him? Then if your certainty is believing in Jesus and trusting Him as your Good Shepherd, why do you insist others to look for certainty in themselves when their confidence should be in Christ Jesus? Why say "You are not trying hard enough because you are not repenting" when you should be praying with him saying, "Lord Jesus... help my brother by delivering him from his sins to no longer live in them to have sin dominion over his life. I do not want him to be left behind when you come." ?
Faith in yourself? Or faith in Jesus Christ?
How we follow Him does matter because if you are not resting in Him as your Good Shepherd, trusting Him to help you to follow Him since He is in you and is with you always, then I can understand why many believers look for certainty from others as if they look for some boast in the flesh and will power of man to "see" that they are beinh serious in what they say.
And yet no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Oh how brothers are persecuted and condemned as unsaved or not trying hard enough or are a liar by fellow believers when they tried to do the best they can and have failed; and so they walk away, seeing how they cannot do it.
See a christian living in sin? Correct him or her by the grace of God and His help since it is on Him to cause the increase. Lift up his eyes to Him for the help he needs to repent to rely on Him all the time for the help in following Him.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
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so we have to save ourselves?
If the statement, "I am saved no matter what" is not true. then we have to rely on ourselves to save ourselves.
Do you understand the law? its requirements, and no matter what you do. you will fall below those requirements. Which means, no matter what you do. You can not save yourself.
of course no one saved would think that they can do whatever they want and get away with it, That tis a strawman by those who want to preach works.
If the statement, "I am saved no matter what" is not true. then we have to rely on ourselves to save ourselves.
Do you understand the law? its requirements, and no matter what you do. you will fall below those requirements. Which means, no matter what you do. You can not save yourself.
of course no one saved would think that they can do whatever they want and get away with it, That tis a strawman by those who want to preach works.
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I do not have to seek forgiveness, I know I am forgiven. Pity the soul who thinks he has to earn his fathers love.
Now. How often do I confess my sin.. As often as I can. Because if I can not acknowledge my sin, I can not be healed of that sin.
How about you. You said you were not trying to save yourself. How often do you ask forgiveness? And why do you not trust in your fathers love? Is he your ABBA Father, or is he your Spirit of Fear?
Now. How often do I confess my sin.. As often as I can. Because if I can not acknowledge my sin, I can not be healed of that sin.
How about you. You said you were not trying to save yourself. How often do you ask forgiveness? And why do you not trust in your fathers love? Is he your ABBA Father, or is he your Spirit of Fear?
There is a race to be run by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to lay aside every weight & sin and so that is an ongoing walk with Christ as a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to finish His work in us.
BUT you can only enter that race as a saved believer to have that power to run that race which is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Salvation comes first; discipleship is after that but both are by faith in Jesus Christ. Not every saved believers will follow Him as His disciple and are at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event for building iniquity on that foundation, defiling the temple of God, but they are still His and He will finish His work even in those left behind because He is the author & finisher of our faith of all those that have His seal.
So we are not perfect yet, but we are saved nonetheless for there is no other way to run that race which is still by faith in Jesus Christ to finish.
John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
BUT you can only enter that race as a saved believer to have that power to run that race which is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Salvation comes first; discipleship is after that but both are by faith in Jesus Christ. Not every saved believers will follow Him as His disciple and are at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event for building iniquity on that foundation, defiling the temple of God, but they are still His and He will finish His work even in those left behind because He is the author & finisher of our faith of all those that have His seal.
So we are not perfect yet, but we are saved nonetheless for there is no other way to run that race which is still by faith in Jesus Christ to finish.
John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
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