Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

Timeline · Feb 19, 2017

I agree, but it would be incorrect to say that works don't play a role. It pulls scripture too far, just as those that say we must work for our salvation - to achieve salvation - take it too far in the other direction.

I like to think of it more like being a caretaker of the gift. I am sure that analogy falls short in one way or the other, but there it is until a better one comes along.

FreeNChrist · Feb 19, 2017

Timeline said:

I agree, but it would be incorrect to say that works don't play a role. It pulls scripture too far, just as those that say we must work for our salvation - to achieve salvation - take it too far in the other direction.

I like to think of it more like being a caretaker of the gift. I am sure that analogy falls short in one way or the other, but there it is until a better one comes along.

Plays a role in what?

Timeline · Feb 19, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

I suppose in the perfection of faith.

I cannot sit here and tell one person they are saved and the other that they are not - for I am not a judge.

But I do not suppose that Jesus told the parable of the talents for entertainment. The message is for us to work: because we are grateful, because others need to hear the good news, because we love, because He is Love.

I don't really side with either "camp" because I figure that we are not saved by our works, but more likely we are lost through slothfulness, etc.

That's why I said that it probably best to look at ourselves as caretakers of the gift. Jesus gives us the free gift and we care for it.

I also believe that God knows everything before it happens - so the judgement remains the same. He doesn't get knew information and update the "verdict".

FreeNChrist · Feb 19, 2017

Timeline said:

You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

I suppose in the perfection of faith.

I cannot sit here and tell one person they are saved and the other that they are not - for I am not a judge.

But I do not suppose that Jesus told the parable of the talents for entertainment. The message is for us to work: because we are grateful, because others need to hear the good news, because we love, because He is Love.

I don't really side with either "camp" because I figure that we are not saved by our works, but more likely we are lost through slothfulness, etc.

That's why I said that it probably best to look at ourselves as caretakers of the gift. Jesus gives us the free gift and we care for it.

I also believe that God knows everything before it happens - so the judgement remains the same. He doesn't get knew information and update the "verdict".

I believe Jesus is the gift who takes care of us.

PeterJens · Feb 19, 2017

dcontroversal said:

If things are as you claim, we are perfected in Christ then we will never stop believing
if we are truly saved.

So in your theology to not believe is to confirm one is not truly saved in the first place.

Timeline · Feb 19, 2017

You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

I wonder what works were/were not produced from the demons' belief in God - and do you think that matters.

FreeNChrist · Feb 19, 2017

Timeline said:

I think that believing God is One, which He is, is not believing in Jesus Christ for salvation.

dcontroversal · Feb 19, 2017

Timeline said:

When one believes into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, born again of incorruptible seed, justified (rendered innocent) sanctified (positionally) in Christ forever......the blood is applied ETERNALLY and there is NO MORE sacrifice for sin to be made forever.....

If after genuine belief we lose faith for what ever reason the scripture is clear....

IF WE BELIVE NOT (the indication is after we have believed) HE ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF......

ONE who truly believes cannot LOSE it after it has been APPLIED because WHATSOEVER GOD does it is EVERLASTING....

DID THOMAS DOUBT and did he ever LOSE IT...NO

You guys need to get over this I believed and then quit believing and lost my salvation.....it is not found in scripture.....

DID PETER DENY after SALVATION...YES 3 times....did he LOSE salvation NO

The context of unbelief and those that deny the LORD are aimed at those who never acknowledge Jesus is faith.....

The bible is replete with verb tense that sets forth a present continuing result from a past completed action.....!

wsblind · Feb 19, 2017

dcontroversal said:

In all reality, if we believe salvation can be lost,for ANY reason>>>>>we have already lost THE faith.

We haven't lost salvation, but we have lost the faith. This is why many(the majority?) of believers don't produce a ounce of fruit(thank God it is SHOULD and not WILL produce fruit.) If we don't have our eternal security MASTERED and UNDERSTOOD we will not produce divine good works or fruit. We will forever be stuck on salvation and the milk. And we need to get past the milk to produce divine good or fruit.

willybob · Feb 19, 2017

How was it that Demas, a fellow labourer in the gospel with Paul, Luke, and Mark, and he yet fell away from the faith forsaken Paul, having agape love for world, therefore departed unto Thessalonica? There are 85 NT verses implying the departure from the faith...It is not really so much as Once saved always saved MYTH, but rather once a sinner always a sinner achievement by religious works..Its more than clear that Demos fell away from the faith....dig deep and build on the Rock of TRUTH, lest the flood of lies sweep that house away................

dcontroversal · Feb 20, 2017

wsblind said:

And at the end of the day it is the root that produces the fruit through the vine......Jesus is the root and we are the branches.....HE is the one producing through us.....and before we can produce fruit...WE are ALREADY alive and in the vine and have had a period of growth and maturity.......

dcontroversal · Feb 20, 2017

willybob said:

Quote the verse in context that said Demas lost his salvation.......and regardless....85 verses or 1000....the word does not contradict and or override itself...

WHATSOEVER God does it is EVERLASTING...including saving someone.......

EVERY man and woman that Christ begins a good work in HE WILL FINISH IT and LOSE NOTHING
HE SAID, I WILL NEVER leave thee NOR FORSAKE THEE....

DEMAS was saved, JESUS began the good work in DEMAS and JESUS will bring it to fruition and will NEVER leave him nor FORSAKE HIM....

NO difference and same as the man in the Corinthian assembly that PAUL tells them to cut lose for the destruction of the FLESH that the SPIRIT may be saved in the day of CHRIST.....

and there is noting MYTHICAL about it.....eternal security is taught regardless of your ability to see it or acknowledge it......

fredoheaven · Feb 20, 2017

FranC said:

Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Hi Fran,
I am so sorry been late replying this that was address to me. The passage is about the parable of the sower as explain by our Lord Jesus Christ. Here is my reply:

1. Our Lord Jesus Christ speaks to the multitude while it is true they heard the word of the kingdom, that multitudes did not understand it. So our Lord Jesus spoke in parable so multitudes were able to understand what is the kingdom is about. Thus this speaks more of what’s in the kingdom rather than how to enter the kingdom.

Matthew 13;13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

2. There is no salvation being spoken by our Lord in the given passage. All we have to do is to assume that passage does but its not.

3. The passage tells us that they who heard the word of the kingdom even this comes through sincerity, though enjoins with joy or gladness does not guarantee someone will benefit the kingdom. Actually, our Lord Jesus Christ is telling us that these hearers have no root in them. Thus these are the hearers who received the word emotionally not by faith.

No one is better explaining of these things more than our Lord Jesus Christ. In so saying, I would not doubt what the Lord says.

God bless

willybob · Feb 20, 2017

The scriptures and testimony of Paul imply otherwise......Keep rigorously arguing in favour of the flesh the devil loves it..I can see by being evolved for a couple days that holiness is despised by many here.......some of you are very belligerent, false accusers, immature, and tattle tales, and some how they keep from getting banned...I have to ask myself why is that? I was warned afore not to cast perils before swine lest they trample them underfoot..............

Guardian1970 · Feb 20, 2017

I like your little quote ate the end. I thought k like Fran, most of us agree. It is written to show those who have berms saved truly. Who know God intimately, who love Him. Will seek not to sin, will seek the fo His will and works as commanded. You either will love one and despise the other.... it's just the devil tr Es to distract us with the world and he is real good at it. We must resist and realize what he is doing.

willybob · Feb 20, 2017

In the parable of the wondering spirit, Jesus Himself described the person in Hebrews 6 & 10, and what Petersaid a dog returning to his vomit..

No according to Paul Demas fell away from the faith and went back to the world he agape loved, if he was restored again or not we do not know for sure, but what we do know is that a second repentance is a very rare thing in the text..Yes it happened a few times but indeed a very rare thing...

Jesus tells us of the man who fell away in the parable of the evil restless wondering spirit. He said that the devil that came back brought 7 more devils with him, and that man was worse than he was before he was saved...Having 8 devils he became the 8th, "ie"a son of perdition...Its the same truth found in Hebrews 6 & 10, its for the most part virtually impossible to return that man to the faith of obedience.... Yes straight from the mouth of Jesus in the parable of the evil wondering spirit....

samuel23 · Feb 20, 2017

If a really saved person becomes lost it is a choice made by God. I knew a man that was saved and lived for the Lord and something happened and he went to drinking. He got up one day and went to cut some firewood so he could buy a case of beer and get drunk, that was his plan for the day. Anyway the chainsaw would not work and he got mad and threw it over a hill and sat there, and (according to his words) the Lord came by and gave him another chance. He became a Pastor and had great power with God when it came to getting prayers answered.

PeterJens · Feb 21, 2017

There is an arguement that God does everything. But if this was the case we would all be purified perfect
vessels now.

So the state of the church with a Lord who rose from the dead, means it is our walk and our ways that
make the difference.

Lose your life, eat my flesh, carry your cross, suffer for righteousness, not cowards, love your enemies,
this is tough stuff, honesty, repentance, poverty, persecution.

You do not earn salvation, you make salvation transform you, leaving behind the old self, putting on the
new. It is tough, and we pause, we need to wait for His healing always, to be in Him and know the price.

To be one with Him yet also ourselves, this is the walk of Christ.

zone · Feb 21, 2017

Ariel82 said:

but classic dispensationalism teaches that since Paul launched his mission, we are in "the age of Grace". BASICALLY this is the start of hyper-grace.....they believe that this age (gentile age) is pure grace, and even things like repentance are works to be avoided.

they believe this because they believe bible history is carved up into dispensations, and this is the dispensation of grace (even though that figure of speech doesn't mean a period of time, but rather dispensation means something dispensed - GRACE)

eternally-gratefull · Feb 21, 2017

zone said:

How many times do people have to be told things are not true before they will actually start believing them.

You can not fight something you disagree with, if your basis for disagreement is in error. Dispensationalism does not teach repentance and works are nothing, In fact it teaches if one has not repented. One is not saved, (because there can be no faith apart from true repentance) and that ALL who are saved WILL PRODUCE WORKS.

As for age or dispensation of grace being different from other ages or dispensations. It comes from paul.

Eph 3: 3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— [SUP]2 [/SUP]if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, [SUP]3 [/SUP]how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, [SUP]4 [/SUP]by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), [SUP]5 [/SUP]which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:

Notice that other ages are plural. meaning there was more than one..

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