Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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Dec 12, 2013
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Dcontroversal

The above is an incorrect interpretation of loss of salvation.

It looks like you think it's lost when we sin.
It CANNOT be LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED

This is rediculous.

One is saved. It MOST PROBABLY lasts his Whole life since it's difficult to abandon God once you have tasted of his goodness.

However, we cannot deny that the bible is full of verses that put belief into the present tense, that exhort us to hold fast, and that tell us not to fall away.

So, what are all these verses for? To tell us to hang on to Christ and not let go. Many Let Go and abandon Him.

Please listen to what I'm saying. I feel like you come to read my posts with preconceived ideas.


Fran
Salvation is based upon the faith and work of Christ, to teach you can lose it is false.....

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING, nothing ADDED nor TAKEN from it.........

Your view makes the above false........end of story! Regardless of your inability to see the truth.

One who exercises faith into Jesus is SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise
One who exercise faith into JESUS is SAVED, justified, sanctified and BORN of incorruptible SEED
One who exercises faith into Christ is given ETERNAL life

NONE of the above can be undone by our actions and or deeds or even a lack of faith AFTER theses things have taken place....

WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS EVERLASTING..........YOUR VIEW would HAVE the word and the above be TEMPORARY based upon WHAT WE DO.....this is false!
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by FranC

One is saved. It MOST PROBABLY lasts his Whole life since it's difficult to abandon God once you have tasted of his goodness.
So GOD's salvation depends on us holding on to it. If we do not hold on His grace (unmerited active love) fails?

However, we cannot deny that the bible is full of verses that put belief into the present tense,
because it is continually present

that exhort us to hold fast, and that tell us not to fall away.

So, what are all these verses for? To tell us to hang on to Christ and not let go. Many Let Go and abandon Him.
to weedle out unbelievers and make then see they have not yet truly believed and to stir the weak on
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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Salvation is based upon the faith and work of Christ, to teach you can lose it is false.....

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING, nothing ADDED nor TAKEN from it.........

Your view makes the above false........end of story! Regardless of your inability to see the truth.

One who exercises faith into Jesus is SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise
One who exercise faith into JESUS is SAVED, justified, sanctified and BORN of incorruptible SEED
One who exercises faith into Christ is given ETERNAL life

NONE of the above can be undone by our actions and or deeds or even a lack of faith AFTER theses things have taken place....

WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS EVERLASTING..........YOUR VIEW would HAVE the word and the above be TEMPORARY based upon WHAT WE DO.....this is false!
It's temporary based on our belief in God and our faith.

I do hope you understand that this was not even thought of until Calvin.
Were all theologians besides him dumb?

No one has answered to this as yet.

Fran
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
It's temporary based on our belief in God and our faith.

I do hope you understand that this was not even thought of until Calvin.
Were all theologians besides him dumb?

No one has answered to this as yet.

Fran
Eternal life is temporary???
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's temporary based on our belief in God and our faith.

I do hope you understand that this was not even thought of until Calvin.
Were all theologians besides him dumb?

No one has answered to this as yet.

Fran
This is just a regurgitated view of some man......the bible teaches eternal security.....end of story.....and you have failed to answer any thing I have stated with scripture I might add.....

Your statement DIRECTLY contradicts

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING, nothing ADDED nor TAKEN from it.........

I will take the inspired view over your non-inspired view.....and your view makes the following verse a lie.....not buying it!

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Eternal life is temporary???

Yep.........her view contradicts God's view....EVERYTHING and WHATSOEVER includes salvation! If salvation was not included God would not have inspired everything or whatsoever.....this one verse destroys the theology that one can lose salvation...end of story!

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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This is just a regurgitated view of some man......the bible teaches eternal security.....end of story.....and you have failed to answer any thing I have stated with scripture I might add.....

Your statement DIRECTLY contradicts

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING, nothing ADDED nor TAKEN from it.........

I will take the inspired view over your non-inspired view.....and your view makes the following verse a lie.....not buying it!

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
dcontroversal,
I think the time has come to end our relationship.
I'll be seeing you around, I'm sure.

How many verses could I list to support my position.

I don't accept yours, and you don't accept mine. That's just the way it is.

However, for anyone reading along, I do sincerely hope they read the N.T. with
NO PRECONCEIVED concepts. I'm sure they'll come away understanding that

JUSTIFICATION IS BY GOD ALONE, and we add nothing to it.

SANCTIFICATION is a combined work. God works in us through the Holy Spirit to help us LIVE IN HIM. THIS IS LIFE.
And we work with God to achieve HIS GOALS FOR OUR LIFE. Which INCLUDE living in the way and manner that HE WOULD HAVE US TO LIVE.

Blessings.
Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Yep.........her view contradicts God's view....EVERYTHING and WHATSOEVER includes salvation! If salvation was not included God would not have inspired everything or whatsoever.....this one verse destroys the theology that one can lose salvation...end of story!

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
Yes.
Ecclesiastes.
Forget about what Jesus said.

John 15:1-6
Mathew 16:32-33
Mathew 8:10-13
Mathew 9:29
Mathew 7:15-21
Mathew 7:24-27

and many more.

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Eternal life is temporary???
Eternal life belongs to those who believe in Christ.

IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE.

You like to hang on to the idea of eternal life.
BUT you haven't answered my question here, no one has.

Why was this concept not presented in 1,500 years before Calvin?

Could it be because for 1,500 years theologians didn't even THINK of this false doctrine?

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
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So GOD's salvation depends on us holding on to it. If we do not hold on His grace (unmerited active love) fails?

>>Yes. Our salvaton depends on our HOLDING ON TO IT.

Romans 6:2-10
(GOD) will render to each one according to his deeds. ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE in doing good seek for glory...

John 15:5
I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man REMAINS IN ME AND I IN HIM, he will bear much fruit, apart from me you can do nothing.

John 15:6
IF anyone DOES NO REMAIN IN ME, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Romans 11:20
...Granted, but they were b roken off BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF, and you STAND BY FAITH. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.

Romans 11:21
For if God did NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, He will NOT SPARE YOU.

2 Peter 1:10
...Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE.
For IF YOU DO these things, you will NEVER FALL.


Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 6:4-6
Philippians 3:12-14 Jesus didn't die for a crown. He died to save us.
1 Corinthians 9:27

and many more


because it is continually present



to weedle out unbelievers and make then see they have not yet truly believed and to stir the weak on
Sounds good, but not properly exegeted.

Fran
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
dcontroversal,
I think the time has come to end our relationship.
I'll be seeing you around, I'm sure.

How many verses could I list to support my position.

I don't accept yours, and you don't accept mine. That's just the way it is.

However, for anyone reading along, I do sincerely hope they read the N.T. with
NO PRECONCEIVED concepts. I'm sure they'll come away understanding that

JUSTIFICATION IS BY GOD ALONE, and we add nothing to it.

SANCTIFICATION is a combined work. God works in us through the Holy Spirit to help us LIVE IN HIM. THIS IS LIFE.
And we work with God to achieve HIS GOALS FOR OUR LIFE. Which INCLUDE living in the way and manner that HE WOULD HAVE US TO LIVE.

Blessings.
Fran
Not hardly............He hath perfected FOREVER those who are sanctified in Christ.....

The bible teaches eternal security......it does not teach one can lose it......and we do not HELP God keep ourselves saved......end of story!
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Eternal life belongs to those who believe in Christ.

IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE.

You like to hang on to the idea of eternal life.
BUT you haven't answered my question here, no one has.

Why was this concept not presented in 1,500 years before Calvin?

Could it be because for 1,500 years theologians didn't even THINK of this false doctrine?

Fran
To believe is to receive. Jesus never leaves those who have received Him.

If you haven't received Him, you haven't actually believed in Him.

And our knowing that eternal life is eternal and not temporary, has been known from the very beginning.
 
May 12, 2016
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Not hardly............He hath perfected FOREVER those who are sanctified in Christ.....

The bible teaches eternal security......it does not teach one can lose it......and we do not HELP God keep ourselves saved......end of story!
I see it looks like you are staunch in saying they are secure forever. I have a few questions for you since that is your stance.

You know, the way you quoted the Bible is right "for those who are sanctified in Christ"

So tell me who is not sanctified? Now you claim once saved always saved.

What is the meaning of the race, running the course?

Why is the way to distruction wide and easy, yet to salvation narrow and hard that FEW find? After all, once your saved your saved right? Which one sounds easy? Why would salvation be a narrow and hard way if once I say Lord, Lord then I am saved forever!! ???

Let's see what happens at the judgement.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Those who practice lawlessness.... hmmm who said that before? Let's see what is in John

4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

So, would you say John has it all wrong? That you can run around and do what you want and remain in God?

What about it this part?



Bible > KJV > Matthew 15

◄ Matthew 15 ►
King James Bible
Tradition and Vain Worship
(Mark 7:1-13)

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What Defiles a Man
(Mark 7:14-23)

10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So tell me, why do you believe in predestination?
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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If only there were a scripture that spelled it out clearly:

18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

You may have other verses for your argument, but I really don't see how you can feel comfortable trying to explain these verses away.

Yes, I Know, the other camp tries to go too far the other way - it's a problem. But it's a problem that should not be dealt with by going too far in the opposite direction.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
If only there were a scripture that spelled it out clearly:

18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

You may have other verses for your argument, but I really don't see how you can feel comfortable trying to explain these verses away.

Yes, I Know, the other camp tries to go too far the other way - it's a problem. But it's a problem that should not be dealt with by going too far in the opposite direction.
Whats to explain away? It's about faith. Real saving faith in Jesus Christ that will result in real good works. It's the object of our faith, Jesus Christ who saves us, and it's Jesus Christ who is the source of those good works. The good works don't save us, Jesus does.
 

Timeline

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Mar 20, 2014
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Whats to explain away? It's about faith. Real saving faith in Jesus Christ that will result in real good works. It's the object of our faith, Jesus Christ who saves us, and it's Jesus Christ who is the source of those good works. The good works don't save us, Jesus does.

Ah, but whether or not Jesus is the source of good works (and I'm not saying that He isn't), you admit the need for the presence of good works - because without them our faith is dead (as the scripture clearly lays out for us)!
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Ah, but whether or not Jesus is the source of good works (and I'm not saying that He isn't), you admit the need for the presence of good works - because without them our faith is dead (as the scripture clearly lays out for us)!
No, I "admit" that true saving faith in Jesus Christ will result in good works.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
 

Timeline

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But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

And just to be clear, I'm not using this scripture to call you a foolish fellow; I am just copying and pasting from the Bible.
 
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FreeNChrist

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But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

And just to be clear, I'm not using this scripture to call you a foolish fellow; I am just copying and pasting from the Bible.
I am willing to recognize that it is about true saving faith.
 
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