Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[wsblind]

We can't determine another persons Salvation.

All we can determine is lack of faith and lack of knowledge.

A person can be saved and lack both of those things, imo.

I agree. That is why I am questioning EG's interpretation of the John passages he quoted.

"they were never of us." I don't believe is about salvation.

John's churches taught the pure,hard truth. If the "tickle my ears crowd" walked in they wouldn't last 2 seconds before they walked back out. doesn't mean they are not saved though.

 

[FranC]

We can't determine another persons Salvation.

All we can determine is lack of faith and lack of knowledge.

A person can be saved and lack both of those things, imo.

What do you mean " in my opinion " ?

If faith is required for salvation...
And one lacks faith...

HOW can one possibly be saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm trying to get your interpretation of the John passages straight in my head. In my mind, if your interpretation is correct then every loss of salvation believer is not really saved. Because they deny Christ, in an indirect way.

That would appear to be what John says..

If they (those that left the church) were truly of us, (truly saved) They (those who left us) would have remained wiht us (never departed) but they departed so that it may be made manifest that they were never of us (never saved)

who are they? Those who deny Christ.

I just take John at his word..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree. That is why I am questioning EG's interpretation of the John passages he quoted.

"they were never of us." I don't believe is about salvation.

How could it not be. What else could it mean.

John's churches taught the pure,hard truth. If the "tickle my ears crowd" walked in they wouldn't last 2 seconds before they walked back out. doesn't mean they are not saved though.

Pauls churches, Johns churches, Even peters churches had people in them who were not saved, and ended up walking away. No matter what church you are in, there are probably people there who have yet to repent and come to true saving faith.

Someone can go to churhc for years. and never be saved.. Church attendance does not make one a true believer.

 

[notuptome]

What do you mean " in my opinion " ?

If faith is required for salvation...
And one lacks faith...

HOW can one possibly be saved?

Just had to check but scripture says that it is by grace that we are saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

That would appear to be what John says..

If they (those that left the church) were truly of us, (truly saved) They (those who left us) would have remained wiht us (never departed) but they departed so that it may be made manifest that they were never of us (never saved)

who are they? Those who deny Christ.

I just take John at his word..

It is they who deny the cross of Christ is enough to transform us and lead us into
righteousness.

The people they are calling demon possessed or taught, evil, anti-christ, sending
people to Hell, are just simple believers and followers of Christ while EG is behaving
just like the pharisees with their accusations and anger.

 

[Grace777x70]

.................................

 

[FranC]

Just had to check but scripture says that it is by grace that we are saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The above leads me to believe that you fail to understand what the word "grace" means in relation to God.

God's grace fall's on EVERYONE.
God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
Mathew 5:45

So does God's grace fall on the just and the unjust.
If it didn't, how would anyone ever come to the salvific knowledge of our Lord and Savior?

God created everyone and wishes all to come to salvation.
1 Timothy 2:4

Grace refers to GOD. It is NOT something we must do to be saved.
Grace can be called God's love, or favor.

In Genesis 15:16 we read that Abraham BELIEVED and this was counted to him as righteousness.
It does not say Abraham had grace and so it was counted to him...
BELIEF means we have FAITH.

See also,
Jeremiah 31:2-3
Genesis 6:8
Psalm 84:11
Ester 2:7
2 Kings 13:23

GOD HAS GRACE. Not man.

We are saved by GOD's grace THROUGH our FAITH.

God has grace anyway. Of course it's His grace and favor and love that allows us to be saved.
But if it depended only on grace, EVERYONE would be saved!

No.

Our salvation depends on our FAITH in that grace and in Jesus' sacrifice.

Ephesians 2:8
FOR YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH...

Of course God is love and God loves us.

We are saved by that love, THROUGH FAITH in Him.

 

[notuptome]

The above leads me to believe that you fail to understand what the word "grace" means in relation to God.

God's grace fall's on EVERYONE.
God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
Mathew 5:45

So does God's grace fall on the just and the unjust.
If it didn't, how would anyone ever come to the salvific knowledge of our Lord and Savior?

God created everyone and wishes all to come to salvation.
1 Timothy 2:4

Grace refers to GOD. It is NOT something we must do to be saved.
Grace can be called God's love, or favor.

In Genesis 15:16 we read that Abraham BELIEVED and this was counted to him as righteousness.
It does not say Abraham had grace and so it was counted to him...
BELIEF means we have FAITH.

See also,
Jeremiah 31:2-3
Genesis 6:8
Psalm 84:11
Ester 2:7
2 Kings 13:23

GOD HAS GRACE. Not man.

We are saved by GOD's grace THROUGH our FAITH.

God has grace anyway. Of course it's His grace and favor and love that allows us to be saved.
But if it depended only on grace, EVERYONE would be saved!

No.

Our salvation depends on our FAITH in that grace and in Jesus' sacrifice.

Ephesians 2:8
FOR YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH...

Of course God is love and God loves us.

We are saved by that love, THROUGH FAITH in Him.

It is Gods mercy that withholds His wrath and judgment. Gods grace is imputing to us the righteousness of His Son Jesus and imputing to Jesus all our sin.

God through the Holy Spirit gives us faith to trust His word and receive His grace unto the saving of our soul. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.

You have no faith of your own that is of any merit in Gods economy. Accusing God of being incapable of saving and keeping saved is not faith and its not pleasing to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FranC]

It is Gods mercy that withholds His wrath and judgment. Gods grace is imputing to us the righteousness of His Son Jesus and imputing to Jesus all our sin.

God through the Holy Spirit gives us faith to trust His word and receive His grace unto the saving of our soul. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.

You have no faith of your own that is of any merit in Gods economy. Accusing God of being incapable of saving and keeping saved is not faith and its not pleasing to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Anyone reading the bible FOR THE FIRST TIME
would know how incorrect you are.

If we do not need our faith to be saved then
EVERYONE IS SAVED because God loves everyone.

Then He is not a just God.


Can you also explain THIS verse in your own twisted way?

Galatians 2:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

 

[88]

That would appear to be what John says..

If they (those that left the church) were truly of us, (truly saved) They (those who left us) would have remained wiht us (never departed) but they departed so that it may be made manifest that they were never of us (never saved)

who are they? Those who deny Christ.

I just take John at his word..

****1 John 2:19 is not a proof text for Once Saved Always Saved----the context of 1 John 2 was gnosticism----some were teaching false things in regard to Christ and God the Father---whosoever will may come---this is the foundation of the Gospel---but our free will is always involved----we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life----check out the testimony of Matthew Vines----saved at 3 and continued as a born again Christian up to the age of 12-------in college turned to gay activism ------I believe he was truly saved at a young age---and according to 1 Corinthians 6:9 he is engaging in sins which keep your from the kingdom---am I positive about this position?----I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away---better not to be born than to known the way of righteousness and depart (2 Peter 2:21)----you may be able to explain away some of these warnings with Calvinistic teaching---but are we risking the souls of men...?-------I will include Matthew Vines video on my next post...

 

[88]

Testimony of Matthew Vines-----saved at 3---continued as a born again believer up to at least 12----in college became a gay activist... https://youtu.be/_8ZgSHK6tdA

 

[FranC]

****1 John 2:19 is not a proof text for Once Saved Always Saved----the context of 1 John 2 was gnosticism----some were teaching false things in regard to Christ and God the Father---whosoever will may come---this is the foundation of the Gospel---but our free will is always involved----we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life----check out the testimony of Matthew Vines----saved at 3 and continued as a born again Christian up to the age of 12-------in college turned to gay activism ------I believe he was truly saved at a young age---and according to 1 Corinthians 6:9 he is engaging in sins which keep your from the kingdom---am I positive about this position?----I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away---better not to be born than to known the way of righteousness and depart (2 Peter 2:21)----you may be able to explain away some of these warnings with Calvinistic teaching---but are we risking the souls of men...?-------I will include Matthew Vines video on my next post...

Hi 88

Your video is over an hour long and it's very late here, so I'll watch it with much interest Tomorrow morning.
I too know persons who were saved and have abandoned God. One girl that comes to mind, who was Christian for years, decided that God either doesn't exist or does not care for us because He did not save her marriage after a lot of prayer.

So, how this could be denied by many here at CC is not understood by me.

I've asked why they're so afraid of the possibility of losing salvation, but i've received no reply.
All I get is twisted reasonings to scripture. Exegesis is not an art form here!

I particularly like a statement you make above and would like to repeat it:

"we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life--"

I'm also very much in Agreement with your statement here...

"I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away--"

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hi 88

Your video is over an hour long and it's very late here, so I'll watch it with much interest Tomorrow morning.
I too know persons who were saved and have abandoned God. One girl that comes to mind, who was Christian for years, decided that God either doesn't exist or does not care for us because He did not save her marriage after a lot of prayer.

So, how this could be denied by many here at CC is not understood by me.

I've asked why they're so afraid of the possibility of losing salvation, but i've received no reply.
All I get is twisted reasonings to scripture. Exegesis is not an art form here!

I particularly like a statement you make above and would like to repeat it:

"we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life--"

I'm also very much in Agreement with your statement here...

"I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away--"

You mean you have known many who thought they were saved, only to find out later they weren't. Happens all the time.

And we don't just "get" Christ, He gets us. We are His, and He will lose none who are His...it is the very will of God. (John 6:39)

 

[FranC]

You mean you have known many who thought they were saved, only to find out later they weren't. Happens all the time.

And we don't just "get" Christ, He gets us. We are His, and He will lose none who are His...it is the very will of God. (John 6:39)

In a very polite way, I'm going to try to tell you that you're theology is so off that I can hardly deal with it.

1. It is not up to you to decide who is saved and who isn't. If a person BELIEVES that they are saved, what makes YOU think they aren't??? What litmus test must they pass before YOU are satisfied that they ARE saved? All this that you say regarding one never having been born again to begin with, is to support your idea that once you're saved, you're Always saved.

You should watch Fargo. The guy did one thing wrong and it just got worse and worse. This is what the OSAS crowd does. The theology is all wrong, so they have to get EVERYTHING wrong so that it could jive with their beliefs.

2. They find out later that they're not saved because THEY'VE LOST THEIR SALVATION because they stopped having what saves you in the first place... FAITH. Not grace as some believe. EVERYONE gets God's grace. GOD IS GRACE. Or do you think He's just a mean God?? Doesn't John tell us that GOD IS LOVE?
1 John 4:8

3. You said that "Christ gets us". And where is this teaching in the N.T.? Please provide some verses.

God ALWAYS reaches out to us first.
It's up to US to respond to Him and believe and have faith in Him.
He stands at the door and knocks...
YOU have to open the door
Rev. 3:20

4. God will lose none THAT ARE HIS. Correct. God loses no one.
WE can lose HIM.


My advice to you and some Others here would be to just start all over again and come to the truth of what God wants you to know.

 

[AllenW]

In a very polite way, I'm going to try to tell you that you're theology is so off that I can hardly deal with it.

1. It is not up to you to decide who is saved and who isn't. If a person BELIEVES that they are saved, what makes YOU think they aren't??? What litmus test must they pass before YOU are satisfied that they ARE saved? All this that you say regarding one never having been born again to begin with, is to support your idea that once you're saved, you're Always saved.

You should watch Fargo. The guy did one thing wrong and it just got worse and worse. This is what the OSAS crowd does. The theology is all wrong, so they have to get EVERYTHING wrong so that it could jive with their beliefs.

2. They find out later that they're not saved because THEY'VE LOST THEIR SALVATION because they stopped having what saves you in the first place... FAITH. Not grace as some believe. EVERYONE gets God's grace. GOD IS GRACE. Or do you think He's just a mean God?? Doesn't John tell us that GOD IS LOVE?
1 John 4:8

3. You said that "Christ gets us". And where is this teaching in the N.T.? Please provide some verses.

God ALWAYS reaches out to us first.
It's up to US to respond to Him and believe and have faith in Him.
He stands at the door and knocks...
YOU have to open the door
Rev. 3:20

4. God will lose none THAT ARE HIS. Correct. God loses no one.
WE can lose HIM.


My advice to you and some Others here would be to just start all over again and come to the truth of what God wants you to know.

Hey, Mrs. C.,
I hope you don't plan on going to bed tonight because I'm just getting here.

 

[FranC]

Hey, Mrs. C.,
I hope you don't plan on going to bed tonight because I'm just getting here.

Go right ahead.

 

[88]

Hi 88

Your video is over an hour long and it's very late here, so I'll watch it with much interest Tomorrow morning.
I too know persons who were saved and have abandoned God. One girl that comes to mind, who was Christian for years, decided that God either doesn't exist or does not care for us because He did not save her marriage after a lot of prayer.

So, how this could be denied by many here at CC is not understood by me.

I've asked why they're so afraid of the possibility of losing salvation, but i've received no reply.
All I get is twisted reasonings to scripture. Exegesis is not an art form here!

I particularly like a statement you make above and would like to repeat it:

"we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life--"

I'm also very much in Agreement with your statement here...

"I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away--"

*****here is another video that explains to me the root of Once Saved Always Saved----Predestination and Election---Dr. Michael Brown debate James White----get the popcorn...
https://youtu.be/dmeMOo4nINA

 

[Grandpa]

What do you mean " in my opinion " ?

If faith is required for salvation...
And one lacks faith...

HOW can one possibly be saved?

By lack I didn't mean completely.

I meant less than someone else.

 

[88]

You mean you have known many who thought they were saved, only to find out later they weren't. Happens all the time.

And we don't just "get" Christ, He gets us. We are His, and He will lose none who are His...it is the very will of God. (John 6:39)

****the root and foundation of that teaching is Predestination and Election----here's a video that helped me understand the heart of God...
https://youtu.be/yEU2IuC1d24