Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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eternally-gratefull

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#861
#861
wsblind said:
Reigning with Him to name just one. If we don't live the Christian way of life, he will deny our reign with Him.

New American Standard Bible
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
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1 John 2:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

So what does john say about these people?

1 John 2:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.



as we see, they were never saved, they were never truely a part of the church.

What is it that is different between them (those who deny christ, even though at one time they claime dto be a part of the Church) and us?

1 John 2:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#862
#862
willybob said:
Its like a deer in a headlight Peter (cognitive dissidence ) it doesn't register...The analytical side of the mind shuts down, and the emotional side feeds everything, there heart feeds off emotion instead of the truth in scripture..thus palcing the cart before the horse....Example: when Jesus said "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you" doesn't even register with them, they become like deer in the headlights of on coming truth, it paralyses them and completely undermines their foundational position built upon shifting sands...This is why Jesus spoke to many in parables...../
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the same can be said of you, These strawman excuses which are in reality attacks against others do nothign to help your cause. It makes you appear desperate.

By the way are you sinless? If not. Why do you take the words "go and sin no more" so lightly? then judge others who admit they sin, and admit they have to rely on Christ to continue to save them..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#864
#864
gb9 said:
the thing is, the thing that people ignore, is this - we were DEAD in our sins before we came to Christ. dead. dead things cannot do anything for themselves. Ephesians 2, Colossians 2 clearly explain this, and yet folks argue against it everyday,
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Amen,

A dead person can not work. while a live person can not "not" do work..

A living branch bears fruit.. Some more than others. and some WAY more than others. But it bears fruit.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#865
#865
PeterJens said:
Got to say these corrections are soooooo instructive ......
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To say that eternal life “starts” is to say that God “started”, that God had a beginning. Which, of course, is ludicrous. That which is eternal is, by its nature, without beginning or end. God alone is without beginning or end. Of course if a person thinks that eternal life starts, that would explain why they would assume that is can also end.
 
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wsblind

Guest
#866
#866
eternally-gratefull said:
1 John 2:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

So what does john say about these people?

1 John 2:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.



as we see, they were never saved, they were never truely a part of the church.

What is it that is different between them (those who deny christ, even though at one time they claime dto be a part of the Church) and us?

1 John 2:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
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Question for you then.

A loss of salvation person is denying Christ. Granted it is not someone foaming at the mouth and ranting, but it is someone who is subtly denying Christ......Are they all unsaved?
 
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FreeNChrist

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#867
#867
gb9 said:
the thing is, the thing that people ignore, is this - we were DEAD in our sins before we came to Christ. dead. dead things cannot do anything for themselves. Ephesians 2, Colossians 2 clearly explain this, and yet folks argue against it everyday,
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Yes. Which was the very reason for Jesus coming, to make dead people alive.

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of My hand." John 10:28
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

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eternally-gratefull said:
if jesus does not leave us, we can not leave him, Where can we go that he is not there?
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The reality is ones heart can leave people while they are still present.
Look at the number of failed marriages that exist, yet people do live in
close proximity to each other.

This is merely one simple example how people can leave God.
In Job it is written

One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
Job 1:6-7

Now here is the Lord speaking to Satan though satan is an enemy, still there is communication.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#869
Jan 18, 2011
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#869
PeterJens said:
The reality is ones heart can leave people while they are still present.
Look at the number of failed marriages that exist, yet people do live in
close proximity to each other.

This is merely one simple example how people can leave God.
In Job it is written

One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
Job 1:6-7

Now here is the Lord speaking to Satan though satan is an enemy, still there is communication.
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if anyone understands this, raise your hand.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

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#870
Imagine this. A person in their youth comes to Christ.
A deep hurt drives them away, they become full of hatred and bitterness.

Now he meets the Lord but heart is just to destroy and rebel.
How is this person going to not sin and rebel and be cast out of the Lords
presence?

If we are literally able to choose and function in a two way relationship, then
our hearts need to be right with the Lord, full of love and flowing in the truth.

And this is the difference between positions. We stand on our current relationship
with our Lord.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#871
John 10:1 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Jesus is at the door to the sheepfold. None enter and none leave except He allows it. When they leave He goes before them they cannot leave on their own. They follow the Good Shepherd because they trust Him. No way do they ever separate from Him. Goats do not display this level of obedience to the Shepherd.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#872
#872
wsblind said:
Question for you then.

A loss of salvation person is denying Christ. Granted it is not someone foaming at the mouth and ranting, but it is someone who is subtly denying Christ......Are they all unsaved?
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what do you mean by subtly?
 
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Grandpa

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#874
Jun 24, 2011
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#874
wsblind said:
They deny Him in a clever, indirect way. Not overtly, and in your face.
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Its more of an attempt at an erosion of the faith.

Sowing doubt and condemnation.

What does faith say? It surely doesn't cast any doubt on the Power or Love of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#875
#875
wsblind said:
They deny Him in a clever, indirect way. Not overtly, and in your face.
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I think what matters is the heart right? Can you determine a persons heart?

Peter denied christ three times, Did he really deny him? or out of fear and lack of faith was he denying him to save himself?
 
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wsblind

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#876
#876
Grandpa said:
Its more of an attempt at an erosion of the faith.

Sowing doubt and condemnation.

What does faith say? It surely doesn't cast any doubt on the Power or Love of God.
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Yes, there are definite one's who are doing this. BUT, there are also truly deceived believers who believe they can lose salvation. they are sincere, sincerely wrong though.

And they are denying Christ, in a indirect way. If John was talking about salvation and "they were never part of us" are they all not saved?
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

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Bad fruit - words and ideas that discourage us in our walk with the Lord.

1. Your praise of God is not real
2. You do not know Christ and his forgiveness
3. Your unbelief means you have destroyed your communion with Christ
4. You are trying to justify yourself and so are false
5. You listen or are inspired by demons
6. You cannot pray for us, because you do not pray and commune with God

1. Praise is given from an honest heart in appreciation of His blessing
2. To know the cross and His resurrection is to know His forgiveness
3. We are secure in the cross through eternity, we need nothing else
4. As an outflow of Christs work in us we walk in righteousness and purity
5. We are temples of the Holy Spirit and commune with Gods word and his people
6. Anyone and everyone can pray to Christ, and request blessings and wisdom from the King.

What is so odd is people who claim to know my King yet attack with great vehmence
and anger the very things that flow from Him. For them to give in would be to deny
what they have become, but by its fruit you know it is a false position.

The heart is desperately wicked and deceives the owners unless truth is put infront
of perception, and feeling nice about things is put below knowing purity, holiness
and the cross. Most behave as the Lord has led them while their theology is offset,
their hearts remain true to their King. Beware the yeast, or false teaching in case
in imperils ones soul.
 
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wsblind

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#878
#878
eternally-gratefull said:
I think what matters is the heart right? Can you determine a persons heart?

Peter denied christ three times, Did he really deny him? or out of fear and lack of faith was he denying him to save himself?
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I'm trying to get your interpretation of the John passages straight in my head. In my mind, if your interpretation is correct then every loss of salvation believer is not really saved. Because they deny Christ, in an indirect way.
 
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Grandpa

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#879
Jun 24, 2011
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#879
wsblind said:
I'm trying to get your interpretation of the John passages straight in my head. In my mind, if your interpretation is correct then every loss of salvation believer is not really saved. Because they deny Christ, in an indirect way.
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We can't determine another persons Salvation.

All we can determine is lack of faith and lack of knowledge.

A person can be saved and lack both of those things, imo.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

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A double edged sword

So many times people have said by not trusting in Christ for future sins, or making salvation
secure into eternity once grasped, a deeper lie was being preached.

The accusation was people are adding their behaviour as a condition to salvation, so walking
in unbelief. It is certainly a strange accusation, but it truth it is attacking the 50% good /
50% evil balance theology, that does have foundation in some peoples minds but not ours.

The truth is these people are adding to the cross and its power.
For them knowing the cross and Jesus is not enough to save them, they have to believe their
sins in the future are also forgiven and if not believed, their very faith in Christ is destroyed.
It is like this trust means God will not let them go, which is just a projection of dependency.

God will do what He will do. The cross is enough to save us, and hold us, and empower us,
and means we will overcome. To believe sin is overcome, that victory is real, that the
flesh can be conquered and contained, is the true power of the cross and its outworking.

The real unbelief is the idea of future sin forgiven excuses defeat and failure, of real judgement
or the need for true reconciliation. The whole faith is overturned into a world fest of indulgence,
wealth, greed, where your dreams are now Gods desire for your life, envisioning cars, houses, wives
is something you should do and experience, which is a form of paganism and idolatry. So no
surprise the thrust of these peoples aggression and anger, because they stand in opposition to what
Christ came to do, and are walking in failure and unbelief about its realities.

And it is they who continually spread their approach, condemning believers as evil and will not
leave simple conversations alone without pulling them back to their desire to expose false faith,
or unbelief, while this demonstrates their own unbelief and disunity, believing their perspective
is the only one to find a real walk with Christ.
 
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