Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
- Thread starter kevan1234
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
E
TWO TIMES I posted what the early first century believers believed.
I am NOT doing it again.
Let's do this instead.
YOU post the early Church believers who believed YOU COULD NOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION ONCE ATTAINED.
Please. I'm right here waiting...
I am NOT doing it again.
Let's do this instead.
YOU post the early Church believers who believed YOU COULD NOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION ONCE ATTAINED.
Please. I'm right here waiting...
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? [SUP]31 [/SUP]Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. [SUP]37[/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
[h=3]Rejected by His Own[/h][SUP]41 [/SUP]The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. [SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]45 [/SUP]It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[SUP][e][/SUP] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[SUP][f][/SUP] from the Father comes to Me. [SUP]46 [/SUP]Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. [SUP]47 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[SUP][g][/SUP] has everlasting life. [SUP]48 [/SUP]I am the bread of life. [SUP]49 [/SUP]Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. [SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. [SUP]51[/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
[SUP]52 [/SUP]The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
[SUP]53 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. [SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For My flesh is food indeed,[SUP][h][/SUP] and My blood is drink indeed. [SUP]56 [/SUP]He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. [SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. [SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
[SUP]59 [/SUP]These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
[h=3]Many Disciples Turn Away[/h][SUP]60 [/SUP]Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? [SUP]62 [/SUP]What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
[SUP]68 [/SUP]But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. [SUP]69 [/SUP]Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[SUP][i][/SUP]
[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” [SUP]71 [/SUP]He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
John 3: 16, For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him will never perish but has eternal life.
John 10: [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I and My Father are one.”
Eph 1: [SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Just a few of the many passages which show us what the 1st century church believed.
E
Jesus, Paul, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Peter, Jude, David, Abraham, etc.............the BIBLE and the VERBIAGE used in the bible........
E
Here is something every OSAS believer might want to study.
Although I truly doubt that they would...
It's about The Didache
An early Church "Instruction Manual"
Didache
Although I truly doubt that they would...
It's about The Didache
An early Church "Instruction Manual"
Didache
E
Afraid to read it, aren't you?
It might not agree with you.
BTW,
THIS DOCUMENT was BEFORE the bible.
If that means anything to you.
BTW,
The bible agrees with it since it was written by SOME OF THE SAME MEN.
It might not agree with you.
BTW,
THIS DOCUMENT was BEFORE the bible.
If that means anything to you.
BTW,
The bible agrees with it since it was written by SOME OF THE SAME MEN.
lol.. Afraid to read what?
this document has more authority than the word of God. You need to think about what you are saying, yur asking people to listen to men not God..
E
Do you know ANY history of the Church???
There was no catholic Church back when this was written.
Unless you mean the Universal Church.
You know all about languages, I'm sure you must know that Catholic means Universal.
It was the ONLY Church around. See? Universal.
It became the RCC, which you so hate, in the 300's under Constantine.
Study up.
There was no catholic Church back when this was written.
Unless you mean the Universal Church.
You know all about languages, I'm sure you must know that Catholic means Universal.
It was the ONLY Church around. See? Universal.
It became the RCC, which you so hate, in the 300's under Constantine.
Study up.
Yeah, It starts in the book of Acts, And continues until revelation.
nothing wrong with looking at history outside those pages But they should be looked at with care, and not used to determine biblical truths.
1. They were written by men
2. They are not inspired by God
3. It is a well known fact the roman church destroyed many if not all books which went against their religious dogma. so one should not expect to find any books of history which opposes the roman church.
E
Uh.
It's NOT all Jesus.
YOU also have something to do with your salvation.
It's NOT all Jesus.
YOU also have something to do with your salvation.
There you go, you asked me where you were preaching works, You just did it right there..
Do you know about Sanctification?
Could you explain it please?
Could you explain it please?
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Notice
1. We are perfected (saved) forever
2. We are in the process of being sanctified.. We do not sanctify ourselves.
(clue: it's not a Catholic thing - so you can't fall back on your usual excuse)
E
Look at what you posted.
You answer your own question and aren't even aware of it.
JESUS DOES NOT LEAVE YOU.
YOU LEAVE HIM.
You answer your own question and aren't even aware of it.
JESUS DOES NOT LEAVE YOU.
YOU LEAVE HIM.
psalms 139 O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
2 Timothy 1:12, For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I have committed my soul to Jesus Christ and He will keep it. It's not up to me to keep my soul saved but the Lord. I am justified by His faith, and His faith never fails!
I have committed my soul to Jesus Christ and He will keep it. It's not up to me to keep my soul saved but the Lord. I am justified by His faith, and His faith never fails!
E
NO NO NO.
4 Semesters.
You can do better than this.
Try again.
What is Justification?
What is Sanctification?
What is Glorification?
4 Semesters.
You can do better than this.
Try again.
What is Justification?
What is Sanctification?
What is Glorification?
Justified, Declaired righteous.. Innocent of all crimes we have been accused of. (paul tells us these things have been nailed to the cross (col 2; 14) because he paid our debt in full (it is finished)
sanctified - two types.
1. Positional - We are set apart as children of God, Alive in Christ, In Christ, and perfected forever
2. Conditional - Daily we are being grown to match our actual life with the life of Christ. It is God who does this work, but we must get out of his way, we can prevent his work by lack of faith.
Glorification. When our conditional sanctification matches our positional sanctification.
E
Martin Luther was a father of many false doctrines such as "faith alone" "Penal substitution" and "eternal security"
Why eternal security, because he wanted to be able to continue in sin and still inherit the kingdom....The devil keeps saying the same lie ever since the garden of Eden, "thou will not surely die"
"Your sin cannot cast you into hell" "No sin can harm me"
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"
"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Paul said such vile sins of the flesh would disqualify one from onheariting the kingdom)
"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to." Martin Luther
He seemed to think you can get back at the devil by sinning more. Its truly sad that someone theology could be that far removed from the truth in scripture....
Why eternal security, because he wanted to be able to continue in sin and still inherit the kingdom....The devil keeps saying the same lie ever since the garden of Eden, "thou will not surely die"
"Your sin cannot cast you into hell" "No sin can harm me"
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"
"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Paul said such vile sins of the flesh would disqualify one from onheariting the kingdom)
"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to." Martin Luther
He seemed to think you can get back at the devil by sinning more. Its truly sad that someone theology could be that far removed from the truth in scripture....
We who are secure in Christ. We do not want to sin more. we just know what sin is, and are learning more and more every day of what is sin we refuse to water down the law
E
Excuse me.
If you are RUNNING FROM HIM (your words)
HOW IS HE YOUR LORD???
There are only two directions to go.
Running TOWARD God
Or running toward the enemy.
If you're running FROM GOD
You're running TOWARD the enemy.
If you're running from Him (God)
HOW COULD YOU STILL BE SAVED, if you're running to satan???
If you are RUNNING FROM HIM (your words)
HOW IS HE YOUR LORD???
There are only two directions to go.
Running TOWARD God
Or running toward the enemy.
If you're running FROM GOD
You're running TOWARD the enemy.
If you're running from Him (God)
HOW COULD YOU STILL BE SAVED, if you're running to satan???
The prodigal son left his father, His father was still his father..
E
You have free will my dear man.
If you had free will to accept God,
Do you now become a slave or puppet to Him?
NO.
You still have free will.
Your free will allows you to abandon Him.
Are you married?
If your wife wants to leave you, for whatever reason, and wants to be away from you,
and you FORCE HER AGAINST HER FREE WILL to stay with you,
Is that a satisfying relationship?
Do you think GOD wants any LESS than you, a mere human, wants???
God desires that you love Him freely.
If you WANT TO LEAVE HIM, He ALLOWS you to leave Him.
If you had free will to accept God,
Do you now become a slave or puppet to Him?
NO.
You still have free will.
Your free will allows you to abandon Him.
Are you married?
If your wife wants to leave you, for whatever reason, and wants to be away from you,
and you FORCE HER AGAINST HER FREE WILL to stay with you,
Is that a satisfying relationship?
Do you think GOD wants any LESS than you, a mere human, wants???
God desires that you love Him freely.
If you WANT TO LEAVE HIM, He ALLOWS you to leave Him.
You are what peter called, a dog which returned to his vomit (because you never were made a new creature created in Christ, for good works) thus, a fool. who returns to his own folly.
You are what John calls an AntiChrist, who was never a part of the church, whicch is why you left. to prove to all who sees that you were never a true part of the church (expose your real self)
Free will is not taken away, No one who ever truly repented, because they understood who they were, Understood their true situation (utter despair and true spiritual death) and your destination (hell) and you have called out on the name of the lord to save you. and experienced his true love and forgiveness,, Thus you WOULD NEVER RETURN TO WHAT YOU WERE.
You seem to like to relate God in human terms.. Do you have kids? DO you sto loving your kids when they go their own way and sin? When they walk away from you, do you disown them? Then why do you think God would disown you? He wont anymore than any loving parent would disown their own flesh and blood children.
E
You don't like it because it has WORKS in it. A dirty word lately, but one JESUS used a lot.
Your source is not accurate. As usual, you went to Google and picked something out.
STUDY IT.
Read it and see if it agrees with what the bible says.
Do a report on it.
And don't forget about.
Justification
Sanctification
Glorification
What does sancitified mean, anyway???
Your source is not accurate. As usual, you went to Google and picked something out.
STUDY IT.
Read it and see if it agrees with what the bible says.
Do a report on it.
And don't forget about.
Justification
Sanctification
Glorification
What does sancitified mean, anyway???
E
I'd say that Calvin got a lot wrong.
He made up a Whole different God.
One I DO NOT KNOW.
He made up a Whole different God.
One I DO NOT KNOW.
thats why it would be foolish to listen to calvin, arminian, Augustine, or any other MAN. but to start listening to God.
It is one thing to read what mean say, it is another to blindly follow the as inspired of God..
E
Great.
so let's try not to LOSE THAT LIFE.
Eternal life starts HERE.
The Kingdom starts here.
If we want to be a part of it - the part that comes AFTER (our Death)
WE MUST BE IN IT HERE.
so let's try not to LOSE THAT LIFE.
Eternal life starts HERE.
The Kingdom starts here.
If we want to be a part of it - the part that comes AFTER (our Death)
WE MUST BE IN IT HERE.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
John makes it clear. The basis of continuing to believe in jesus, is the knowledge that we HAVE eternal life (eternal security)
if we do not understand eternal security,, We will not have the hope that guarantees e will continue to believe in Jesus..
E
What does this prove???
Phillipians 2:12 is talking about how we are to obey, and have Always obeyd. This is Paul's letter and what he is saying.
They are to obey not only when Paul is present but even when he is not.
Paul tell the Phillipians to work out their salvation in fear and trembling...with RESPECT to their salvation and not take it for granted, and to become mature Christians, Learning each day to become more and more like Christ.
verse 13:
For it is God that works in us. He gives us, through the Holy Spirit, the divine enablement to do God's will.
Exactly what I said in my previous post.
Unbelievers tend to evil. Original sin, the sin nature, etc.
Believers tend to do good because we're helped by the Holy Spirit. This does NOT mean we will ALWAYS do good, we will fail.
But Jesus saves us continually as long as we want him to.
Phillipians 2:12 is talking about how we are to obey, and have Always obeyd. This is Paul's letter and what he is saying.
They are to obey not only when Paul is present but even when he is not.
Paul tell the Phillipians to work out their salvation in fear and trembling...with RESPECT to their salvation and not take it for granted, and to become mature Christians, Learning each day to become more and more like Christ.
verse 13:
For it is God that works in us. He gives us, through the Holy Spirit, the divine enablement to do God's will.
Exactly what I said in my previous post.
Unbelievers tend to evil. Original sin, the sin nature, etc.
Believers tend to do good because we're helped by the Holy Spirit. This does NOT mean we will ALWAYS do good, we will fail.
But Jesus saves us continually as long as we want him to.
paul is telling them to work out the result of their salvation.
You have to be saved to work it out.
The reason is because we are lights.. If we do not work out our salvation, we will lose our testimony,
he is not saying work out to keep your salvation. or to earn it.
Jesus perfected us forever. He saved us by his calling not ours.. He is not going to renig on his promise, he would have to deny himself..
E
You're copying and pasting again Grace.
This is not nice.
This is not nice.
THE DEVIL IS HAVING A FIELD DAY WITH OSAS.
He is having a field day with legalism, he has been proposing it since cain first tried human righteousness.. God rejected it then, He rejects it today, and he will reject it a million years from now if he still tarrys and has not returned.
Think well about it. If we're to do nothing after salvation, why get saved?
We're supposed to be doing God's work - helping Him out here on earth , creating God's Kingdom HERE.
If we're not doing that and are self-satisfied because we're saved NO MATTER WHAT,
Does that sound like a God plan or like a satan plan?
Does that sound like a God plan or like a satan plan?
Do me it sounds very satanic.
E
The Prodigal Son got his inheritance BEFORE LEAVING.
HE decided to come back home.
No one went looking for him because the Father understood that he did not want to be part of the household anymore.
But, of course, he was waiting with open arms. Just like God would be.
If he got his inheritance before leaving, what else could he possibly have received HAD HE NEVER RETURNED HOME??
Did you ever hear of disinheriting children?
HE decided to come back home.
No one went looking for him because the Father understood that he did not want to be part of the household anymore.
But, of course, he was waiting with open arms. Just like God would be.
If he got his inheritance before leaving, what else could he possibly have received HAD HE NEVER RETURNED HOME??
Did you ever hear of disinheriting children?
2. Gods things are never ending, we could never take all of our inheritance. because it never ends,, If he took ALL his inheritance, when he returned, he would have nothing left Meaning he would be forced to be a slave, and work for his food and housing.
Do you disinherit your child, I hope not.. Any parent who does that does not deserve to have kids.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.