Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tamped With!!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,554
1,418
113
The translators did not deliberately corrupt the word of God, but it is because of different manuscripts that there are verses left out or added. It's not corruption. I could show you some erroneous translations from the KJV as well.

I personally don't stick to just one translation, but compare specific verses in parallel with all of the major translations.
True dat
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
677
351
63
I have read that around 80% of NT quotes of the OT were from the Greek Septuagint. On Pentecost each man heard in his own language. I think God is quite able to get His message across, to the contrite heart, no matter what language one uses: but i believe God will make it understandable to that person. Since most of the worlds population cannot even read the KJV, this argument seems somewhat lost to all who do not speak or read English.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,041
113

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,448
5,452
113
I have read that around 80% of NT quotes of the OT were from the Greek Septuagint.
That is TOTALLY, TOTALLY FALSE.

No more than 10% of the NT quotes correspond to the LXX, with the caveat that even there the verses have somehow been corrupted. I have personally examined this claim, and it is totally false.

The Septuagint is a very corrupt Greek translation of the Old Testament, which also includes all the apocryphal books.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,041
113
Hello I hope all is well.

The English language is about 1/3 of the size of the original Biblical Hebrew text. This is not to say you cannot learn from English, but Hebrew outdates English for thousands of years. I know Hebrew quite well and the nature of the English language quite simply cannot grasp the complexity of the Hebrew language. Example: the word "D'var" (דבר) means "thing", "word", "spoke", "plague" and more. So question, if I translate it does it only mean one thing or can it mean all 4 and if all 4 then I can understand the text 4 ways. Each let has numerical values and they can also deepen the level of the text. This is why Jesus was so keen on staying "Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law/Torah". Why? Because in Judaism, the Torah commands that if even if one letter is incorrect, the entire Torah is invalid! Why? Because these are words of God. Word God spoke. It is not a book that man created. Its power is incredible and its wisdom is beyond words. Why do you think the Catholics made a statute of Moses with horns? Because the same word for horns in hebrew means glory too. Why do you think the name of "Jesus" or "Yeshua" is so powerful to heal? It's not magic, the letters of His name are not arbitrary like other languages. The formation of his name is beyond our understanding.

When it comes to the NT. The Ancient Greek is great and much better than the English or Latin, but even more so, once you translate the text, you then must understand the Jewish/Hebrew idioms Jesus or the Disciples are speaking. Example Acts 1:12 "Then they returned a Sabbath walk distance". What on earth is that? Why waste ink on something so "useless"? Or Laying hands. Why is laying hands to important? Why did the High Priest lay hands on the Goat during the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and why only lay hands when someone is given leadership?

King Solomon alludes to the wisdom in the Bible throughout all his books and Jesus reiterates Moses, "Man shall not live on bread alone but every word that comes out of the Lord".
Lots of good points in your post there!


One thing I've seen from looking at the Greek of the New testament is that when the old testament is quoted, it's often quoted from the Septuagint.


This indicates to me that God is not concerned about the exactness of the words.


For example, see how Luke in chapter 4 quotes Isaiah,

"The spirit of the Lord is upon me."


Close to the Masoretic, but not exact.


what I take away from this is that close enough is good enough, the holy spirit will do the rest.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,448
5,452
113
One thing I've seen from looking at the Greek of the New testament is that when the old testament is quoted, it's often quoted from the Septuagint.
Let me show you that it is the Masoretic Text and NOT the Septuagint which is quoted in the NT.
KJV Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

KJV Ex 9:16 (Masoretic Text almost exactly quoted above)
And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Brenton's Septuagint
And for this purpose hast thou been preserved,
that I might display in thee my strength, and that my name might be published in all the earth.

Note: “And in very deed” omitted. Raised thee up = הֶעֱמַדְתִּ֔יךָ he-‘ĕ-maḏ-tî-ḵā is totally different from “hast thou been preserved” (“carefully kept”) which could not possibly apply to evil Pharaoh.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,041
113
That is TOTALLY, TOTALLY FALSE.

No more than 10% of the NT quotes correspond to the LXX, with the caveat that even there the verses have somehow been corrupted. I have personally examined this claim, and it is totally false.

The Septuagint is a very corrupt Greek translation of the Old Testament, which also includes all the apocryphal books.
I had a different experience, it looked to me like most of the old testament quotes in the New testament were taken from the lxx.


The situation is complicated, I think, because there were probably several Hebrew manuscript traditions in addition to the Masoretic, but they've been lost. And I'm sure there's more than one manuscript tradition for the lxx as well.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,041
113
Let me show you that it is the Masoretic Text and NOT the Septuagint which is quoted in the NT.
KJV Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

KJV Ex 9:16 (Masoretic Text almost exactly quoted above)
And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Brenton's Septuagint
And for this purpose hast thou been preserved,
that I might display in thee my strength, and that my name might be published in all the earth.

Note: “And in very deed” omitted. Raised thee up = הֶעֱמַדְתִּ֔יךָ he-‘ĕ-maḏ-tî-ḵā is totally different from “hast thou been preserved” (“carefully kept”) which could not possibly apply to evil Pharaoh.
Well in the Greek that I was looking at of the NT and the lxx,

neither one seems to match the King James rendering exactly.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9&version=SBLGNT


https://www.academic-bible.com/en/o...01/99999/ch/b3a5b14d8b32c6684954ba90f3103161/


Now, regarding Luke 4, we can see that

Lord God (yhwh)

Is not exactly the same as

Lord.


Close, but not exact.


I love this kind of discussion!
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
677
351
63
That is TOTALLY, TOTALLY FALSE.

No more than 10% of the NT quotes correspond to the LXX, with the caveat that even there the verses have somehow been corrupted. I have personally examined this claim, and it is totally false.

The Septuagint is a very corrupt Greek translation of the Old Testament, which also includes all the apocryphal books.
So. You say 10% were quotes from it, are you saying those quotes that do correspond are suspect?
 
M

Michael29

Guest
Translation is not easy and some dynamics get lost or left out....added?
But the interlinears run it down pretty good.
"...seek and ye shall find"
Yes it is difficult especially if you don't know Hebrew. I have been working on it for a couple years and before that I knew nothing. Wow the Bible becomes 3D Live and God will help if you call out and desire it. There are also good Jewish Hebrew translations. But I tell you, the power of the NT comes out when you understand the Jewish/Hebrew background to it.

The Greek there in the NT is no different as how American Jews speak English together, but still speak Hebrew in prayers, in their studies and there English has Hebrew idioms in there when they speak.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
107
43
So you believe God breaks His promises before the wandering?





Where is that even coming from??
You're not making any sense.
So you believe God breaks His promises before the wandering?
Yes that is right.
All of Deu. 28 was the new covenant spoken to an entirely new generation who were not alive or very young when God spoke Num. 14:34 to Moses. It was a New Covenant spoken to a New Generation of Israelites who never heard the first covenant.
The first time God promised to take the Israelites to a land flowing with milk and honey was in Exo. 3:17.
Exo 3:17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.
But all of the Israelites that were living at the time of Exo. 3:17 when God made that promise were all dead because
of their disobedience at the Jordan river. They all died during the forty years in the desert because as part of their punishment.
By the time that Deu. 28 was spoken to the Israelites there was a whole new generation of Israelites at the end of the forty years because the original Israelites who left Egypt after 400 years were all dead.
So after the promise given in Exo 3:7, the Israelites were disobedient at the Jordan river before the forty years. Which is where Num 14:32-35 comes in.

Num 14:32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
Num 14:33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.
Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Num 14:35 I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die
In Num 14:34 God is telling Moses about the punishment of walking in the desert for the next forty years, because of their disobedience at the Jordan river.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
107
43
Sorry to bust your bubble, but everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ has salvation regardless of what Bible translation they read. That’s so cool!
No bubble busted here. I wasn't talking about anybodies salvation and I would never take it upon myself to decide one way or another about any persons salvation. That job is reserved for God only because only He knows the true condition of the heart any person saved or not.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,659
113
No bubble busted here. I wasn't talking about anybodies salvation and I would never take it upon myself to decide one way or another about any persons salvation. That job is reserved for God only because only He knows the true condition of the heart any person saved or not.
Peace be with you.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,958
665
113
Matthew 6:27
New International Version
Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

New Living Translation
Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?

English Standard Version
And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?

Berean Study Bible
Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

New American Standard Bible
"And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?

NET Bible
And which of you by worrying can add even one hour to his life?

Going to earlier English Versions would vindicate the reading of KJV over modern English versions. Not to mention all of these including Wycliffe 1382 and other Reformation Bibles, the Anglo-Saxon Wessex gospel 990 AD provides a good translation and supports the KJV as well.
Anglo-Saxon Wessex Gospel 990 AD for Matthew 6:27
hwilc eower maig soðlice þencen þæt he ge-eacnige enne elne to his anlichnysse.


An online lexicon proved that this is not in reference to “age” as the passage is concern. “Elne” or “ell” simply means “cubit” a measure of length not days but the space from the point of the elbow to the end of the middle finger presumably 18 inches and anlichnysse or anlicnesse means “stature” not “life”. God bless.
http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/html/oe_bosworthtoller/b0247.html
http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/html/oe_bosworthtoller/b0044.html
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,958
665
113
No bubble busted here. I wasn't talking about anybodies salvation and I would never take it upon myself to decide one way or another about any persons salvation. That job is reserved for God only because only He knows the true condition of the heart any person saved or not.
The bible version issue is not about salvation issue or bible worship/bibliolatry issue. It's about his words. God bless.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,958
665
113
@WithinReason


Hi WithinReason,


I see that you put a red x on my post #236.


If you wish to say what the test is that shows that a translation is the word of God, I invite you to do so!
For one thing Luke 23:98 says of this unless there is not found in other English translations. The superscription written in Greek, Latin and Hebrew and that makes a translation. God bless

King James Bible
And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,554
1,418
113
Not true. Where the NIV and the gender neutral NIV they deliberately removed 45 verses and that was no accident. They did that with the knowledge of what they were doing.
I see that also.
I was agreeing with him in that I also compare different translations when running down word meaning.
I think the niv based itself on the alexandrian text for the nt, (not sure though)