I don't think Christ said they were apples and oranges at all, Christ often spoke of the relationship He had with His Father. Christ explained the way His law grew from the law given to Moses didn't eliminate it, and Christ used murder as an example. Christ expanded not to murder to don't even call someone a fool, Christ added spirit and truth. That is taking the apple and orange blossoms and developing those same blossoms into an mature apple and orange.
For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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H
Sorry I didn't realize you were talking to me, thanks for pointing this out.
Originally Posted by loveme1
"Salvation is undeserved by the creation, but the Creator is Good and merciful.
The way provided is by Hearing and Keeping the Messiah's Testimony, His words give eternal life."
Kerry: "So keeping His word will get you through, really, How can you. No man or women has been able to to thus far are you a prodigy?
Hamster: "Why do you think God would command you to keep his commandment, if it couldn't be done? If you love me keep my commandments!"
My understanding to what loveme1 and Kerry were talking about, was the words that give eternal life. The law don't give eternal life that came by Christ. But under the law they were to keep the commandments of God too. I am not a sabbath keeper, I don't mix the old law with the new, but I do use all scriptures for my learning
The way provided is by Hearing and Keeping the Messiah's Testimony, His words give eternal life."
Kerry: "So keeping His word will get you through, really, How can you. No man or women has been able to to thus far are you a prodigy?
Hamster: "Why do you think God would command you to keep his commandment, if it couldn't be done? If you love me keep my commandments!"
My understanding to what loveme1 and Kerry were talking about, was the words that give eternal life. The law don't give eternal life that came by Christ. But under the law they were to keep the commandments of God too. I am not a sabbath keeper, I don't mix the old law with the new, but I do use all scriptures for my learning
My understanding to what loveme1 and Kerry were talking about, was the words that give eternal life. The law don't give eternal life that came by Christ. But under the law they were to keep the commandments of God too. I am not a sabbath keeper, I don't mix the old law with the new, but I do use all scriptures for my learning
I have come to learn others believe differently and believe the Sabbath is not to be kept.
I stated my belief that the Words of the Messiah give life for it is written.
You state you don't mix old with new, but i'm quite sure you do not steal, lie or commit adultery? The Sabbath day rest was given with these Commandments and the Messiah said they are to be kept and taught.
GOD says those that Love Him Keep His Commandments.
The Messiah teaches this:
Matthew 22
My belief is that if we Love God and our Neighbour then the Commandments are kept.
i share my beliefs, but in no way want to impose anything.
M
Then let us read further than Genesis
As well have you not read that even Jesus' Disciples made it clear by example that one must earn their daily bread
While one may be crucified to the flesh, and while the Sabbath is "In Christ"
we're still not in heaven yet, and still dwell within a fleshly body even though we are no longer of this world.
As God toiled and labored for 6 days and rested on the seventh
We too shall toil and labor for the Lord here, until our final rest in heaven.
"One should not try to reap ones reward before it is given."
"try not to count your chickens before they're hatched."
The rest we have for now is being released from the bondage of being a slave to sin.
Although this does not negate from the fact that one must still not be a sluggard expecting a free ride simply because they are a follower of Christ.
(Prov 26 As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed.)
and must still work to care for the vessel which houses the Lord's Holy Spirit within.
2 Thessalonians
8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule:
“The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
Shall---implies a duty thereof, it is a command. As in thou SHALL
As well have you not read that even Jesus' Disciples made it clear by example that one must earn their daily bread
While one may be crucified to the flesh, and while the Sabbath is "In Christ"
we're still not in heaven yet, and still dwell within a fleshly body even though we are no longer of this world.
As God toiled and labored for 6 days and rested on the seventh
We too shall toil and labor for the Lord here, until our final rest in heaven.
"One should not try to reap ones reward before it is given."
"try not to count your chickens before they're hatched."
The rest we have for now is being released from the bondage of being a slave to sin.
Although this does not negate from the fact that one must still not be a sluggard expecting a free ride simply because they are a follower of Christ.
(Prov 26 As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed.)
and must still work to care for the vessel which houses the Lord's Holy Spirit within.
2 Thessalonians
8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule:
“The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
Shall---implies a duty thereof, it is a command. As in thou SHALL
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I agree that man was given 6 days to work, but I am sent to usher in the 7th.
Can you discern the signs of the times by the things you can see? Take an honest look around. Now until that day, we in the flesh are forced to live by the law of sin, but freed by the law of God and the inner man.
I have seen the kingdom, and it is before my eyes! No man can serve can serve two masters, neither love God and mammon (money).
His day will began with the world wide economic crash.
Religion will mean nothing then because whether one calls Him Jesus, Yahweh or Allah, if there subjects are still paying for heat, rent and light then they are NOT sons of God's kingdom.
Can you discern the signs of the times by the things you can see? Take an honest look around. Now until that day, we in the flesh are forced to live by the law of sin, but freed by the law of God and the inner man.
I have seen the kingdom, and it is before my eyes! No man can serve can serve two masters, neither love God and mammon (money).
His day will began with the world wide economic crash.
Religion will mean nothing then because whether one calls Him Jesus, Yahweh or Allah, if there subjects are still paying for heat, rent and light then they are NOT sons of God's kingdom.
Constitution? The mark of the beast has been around since Cain's offering of the fruit of the earth. And as John states we are not to go that way as any man who loves not his brother is a murderer.
That piece of paper we know as the constitution has been destroyed years ago by the very same people you've mentioned.
Part of the mark of the beast is needing money in this world to buy or sell anything.
Salvation is free but no one can make money selling that message. But selling death is profitable, from war to religion it is divide and conquer.
It is the same in the things we can see as well. 20 million homes are empty but giving one to just the 3 million that are homeless is ubsurd and the least of which to say unprofitable!
30000 children die everyday from starvation. Even here, people beg for food in front of stores full of food. And you are still looking for the mark?
That piece of paper we know as the constitution has been destroyed years ago by the very same people you've mentioned.
Part of the mark of the beast is needing money in this world to buy or sell anything.
Salvation is free but no one can make money selling that message. But selling death is profitable, from war to religion it is divide and conquer.
It is the same in the things we can see as well. 20 million homes are empty but giving one to just the 3 million that are homeless is ubsurd and the least of which to say unprofitable!
30000 children die everyday from starvation. Even here, people beg for food in front of stores full of food. And you are still looking for the mark?
It seems to me what you have to say is clear at many levels, but I ask you in the name of Love, our Maker, to refine your thoughts to more specifics for others to understand.
As for the actual mark of the Beast, I do sincerely believe it will be an actual mark on the body, something like a processing chip, or something just plain supernatural, but it will be known by all when it is here, all. Yahweh bless you always.
As for the actual mark of the Beast, I do sincerely believe it will be an actual mark on the body, something like a processing chip, or something just plain supernatural, but it will be known by all when it is here, all. Yahweh bless you always.
The true sabbath of the Lord cannot begin unless the man of sin is revealed which is our old carnal selves holding on to dead traditions of the past. Again this will begin with the world wide economic crash. From this point true division of who follows God and who follows the beast will be made as war will erupt for control and resources. Such as these who think carnally, will begin to kill themselves. At this time we will be commanded to flee from this senseless madness, seeing as God has provided on this day enough for all.
But it is also a day when those who know their God will be given the power to cast down all imaginations like money, that exalts itself above God.
Having Christ within us, we will destroy the carnal man by the words of peace and healing on the sabbath (the Spirit of His mouth)
But it is also a day when those who know their God will be given the power to cast down all imaginations like money, that exalts itself above God.
Having Christ within us, we will destroy the carnal man by the words of peace and healing on the sabbath (the Spirit of His mouth)
M
Do you actually live in the United States?
If so it may be good for you to do some research on the laws of the land in which you choose to live and reap of.
Because, ya see the thing is...our founding forefathers of this here country, foresaw many things which the framing of the Constitution was written to protect a free people from.
Protect from things like, the rights we are inherently given by God himself.
They saw and valued what freedom within Godly principles meant.
In essence to prevent the authorities in which God instructed we are to submit to from becoming tyrannical.
One of the points of foresight being...that no tender shall be legal other than the coinage of gold or silver.
Did our founding father perhaps have divine foresight?
Is paper money of any worth?...not really.
Is gold or silver of any more worth?
Not really other than it backs itself in being an accepted form of trade throughout the world.
Trade for what?
The answer would be = Trade for favors.
You asked if I could see the sign of the times.
From what I have read, the mark of the beast as the bible mentions being in the hand or forehead is not mentioned in Genesis
...If you can show me the scripture please do so. If not then I would suggest refraining from adding to or taking away from Gods word.
Where I personally find it ACCORDING TO GODS WORD, not through my own assumption or speculation mind you...
is in Revelation...The last book of the bible.
Where as you correctly have stated no one may buy or sell without said mark.
I don't see any mention of prohibition of buying or selling without this mark in Genesis nor in any other book of the bible since it has not been initiated as of yet.
Therefore being a future occurrence not yet fulfilled
Therefore...hasn't happened yet.
So lets play out your scenario.
We do away with money.
Then what form of exchange do we use as compensation for our time and labor?
How about we trade favors...sound good?
I mow your lawn and you bake me some bread to eat.
Ok now lets say through diligent study I have moved up in skills and intelligence and now I'm an engineer.
Hmm word gets around that Im an honest businessman and the Lord has blessed me with skills
Proverbs 11:1 The Lord detests dishonest scales, but accurate weights find favor with him.
Proverbs 22:29 Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men.
Suddenly I may have 80 people beating down my door and the phone ringing off the hook because they want little 'ol me to engineer stuff for them.
I decide to pay a phone company to have a phone because 80 people coming to my property would just kind of be a little bit too much traffic and the city ordinance dept. may just frown on that a little bit.
And not only that but because I'm the one who engineered such things those people now only trust me to repair what has been engineered.
Guess what...
I cant use 80 loafs of bread before it spoils
So maybe one of them says ok I'll offer you my vehicle in trade for you doing this favor for me.
Because lets face it... time is the one thing we cannot buy back and is more valuable than many earthly possessions so our valuable time is only fair to ask to be compensated for when i could much rather be oh I dont know.
Cleaning my house, washing my clothes or tending to any other duties which are required of my own household.
But for some reason others request my time...so yeah...I feel a little compensation is in order.
Guess what...I already have a vehicle and taking on another one only places upon me more burden for the maintenance and care involved in driving another vehicle I will rarely use.
So what now I give it away?
So I've spent a works week earning a car I will give away which now equates to a weeks worth of labor and my time lost into the wind when I could have been working for someone else who will pay me fairly with something I could actually utilize such as clothing perhaps.
Ok so guess what
I cant use 80 pairs of jeans
So money, has a value assigned to it and is now a means of basically trading favors.
They are stored up favors we can put away in our sock drawer and then when we need
A loaf of bread, gas, pair of shoes, some jeans
We can access those saved up favors from various people which is more efficient than telling a person...
Ok I want a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread and a pair of shoes, and some jeans in trade for what time and labor you are asking of me this week.
Now guess what...that person has to go out and do favors for someone else because they don't have the dozen eggs and a pair of shoes but they have the jeans and milk.
So now that person goes out and trades his labor for payment of the things we negotiated for my services and so on and so forth.
It can get rather complicated but it can work.
As well though, what also works is a system of tallying saved up favors that everybody will accept.
Hey I'll build your house and you give me 20,000 bucks
Now I can utilize that 20,000 bucks to care for myself and more easily assign who gets that paper favor exchanged for what I want from them.
Because I dont have the time to go mow their lawn while Im engineering or repairing stuff for the people I have already negotiated with.
Make sense?
This is not mammon
Money or wealth justly and righteously earned is simply a useful tool.
The Lord has actually instructed us in how to use our money wisely and for his good purpose
Here's how to not serve mammon with money or wealth...I hope it will be a revelation for you.
Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.
Mammon ---is money combined with greed.
Or would it just be more wise for me to Live in the desert such as Moses did and the Lord will provide so I don't have to burden anybody by asking for something for free that they themselves have worked for without me personally doing anything in return which in itself would be prideful expecting to be served by others.
As if I am King and everybody else are my subjects.
Or are you suggesting we all line up at home depot and wait for people to drive up and tell us hey YOU
Yeah, I want you to come work for me and I want it now and I'm not gonna pay you anything for it because you're a christian and youre greedy if you want anything in return but I still want something from you and I expect you to like it.
As for the poor...they are blessed
Luke 6:20
Looking at his disciples, he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
As for the Rich man...he is just a poor man with money...what he does with that money is the deciding factor in whether he serves mammon or uses his wealth for the Lord according to his purpose.
Lastly, work and labor is a blessing of the Lord, as anyone can see the human body is designed for labor,
I've been both poor and well off.
I know the struggle of starving, being cold, but I still never asked for a handout and furthermore worked for what meager means I needed to simply survive.
The Lord does provide and such experience has only caused me to appreciate all the more any and all blessings the Lord provides
I still have never sat on my butt asking for handouts when I am physically capable of even going out to the river and eating flower petals for sustenance. Why burden anyone else when one could always go back to mowing a lawn to earn their daily bread?
If so it may be good for you to do some research on the laws of the land in which you choose to live and reap of.
Because, ya see the thing is...our founding forefathers of this here country, foresaw many things which the framing of the Constitution was written to protect a free people from.
Protect from things like, the rights we are inherently given by God himself.
They saw and valued what freedom within Godly principles meant.
In essence to prevent the authorities in which God instructed we are to submit to from becoming tyrannical.
One of the points of foresight being...that no tender shall be legal other than the coinage of gold or silver.
Did our founding father perhaps have divine foresight?
Is paper money of any worth?...not really.
Is gold or silver of any more worth?
Not really other than it backs itself in being an accepted form of trade throughout the world.
Trade for what?
The answer would be = Trade for favors.
You asked if I could see the sign of the times.
From what I have read, the mark of the beast as the bible mentions being in the hand or forehead is not mentioned in Genesis
...If you can show me the scripture please do so. If not then I would suggest refraining from adding to or taking away from Gods word.
Where I personally find it ACCORDING TO GODS WORD, not through my own assumption or speculation mind you...
is in Revelation...The last book of the bible.
Where as you correctly have stated no one may buy or sell without said mark.
I don't see any mention of prohibition of buying or selling without this mark in Genesis nor in any other book of the bible since it has not been initiated as of yet.
Therefore being a future occurrence not yet fulfilled
Therefore...hasn't happened yet.
So lets play out your scenario.
We do away with money.
Then what form of exchange do we use as compensation for our time and labor?
How about we trade favors...sound good?
I mow your lawn and you bake me some bread to eat.
Ok now lets say through diligent study I have moved up in skills and intelligence and now I'm an engineer.
Hmm word gets around that Im an honest businessman and the Lord has blessed me with skills
Proverbs 11:1 The Lord detests dishonest scales, but accurate weights find favor with him.
Proverbs 22:29 Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men.
Suddenly I may have 80 people beating down my door and the phone ringing off the hook because they want little 'ol me to engineer stuff for them.
I decide to pay a phone company to have a phone because 80 people coming to my property would just kind of be a little bit too much traffic and the city ordinance dept. may just frown on that a little bit.
And not only that but because I'm the one who engineered such things those people now only trust me to repair what has been engineered.
Guess what...
I cant use 80 loafs of bread before it spoils
So maybe one of them says ok I'll offer you my vehicle in trade for you doing this favor for me.
Because lets face it... time is the one thing we cannot buy back and is more valuable than many earthly possessions so our valuable time is only fair to ask to be compensated for when i could much rather be oh I dont know.
Cleaning my house, washing my clothes or tending to any other duties which are required of my own household.
But for some reason others request my time...so yeah...I feel a little compensation is in order.
Guess what...I already have a vehicle and taking on another one only places upon me more burden for the maintenance and care involved in driving another vehicle I will rarely use.
So what now I give it away?
So I've spent a works week earning a car I will give away which now equates to a weeks worth of labor and my time lost into the wind when I could have been working for someone else who will pay me fairly with something I could actually utilize such as clothing perhaps.
Ok so guess what
I cant use 80 pairs of jeans
So money, has a value assigned to it and is now a means of basically trading favors.
They are stored up favors we can put away in our sock drawer and then when we need
A loaf of bread, gas, pair of shoes, some jeans
We can access those saved up favors from various people which is more efficient than telling a person...
Ok I want a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread and a pair of shoes, and some jeans in trade for what time and labor you are asking of me this week.
Now guess what...that person has to go out and do favors for someone else because they don't have the dozen eggs and a pair of shoes but they have the jeans and milk.
So now that person goes out and trades his labor for payment of the things we negotiated for my services and so on and so forth.
It can get rather complicated but it can work.
As well though, what also works is a system of tallying saved up favors that everybody will accept.
Hey I'll build your house and you give me 20,000 bucks
Now I can utilize that 20,000 bucks to care for myself and more easily assign who gets that paper favor exchanged for what I want from them.
Because I dont have the time to go mow their lawn while Im engineering or repairing stuff for the people I have already negotiated with.
Make sense?
This is not mammon
Money or wealth justly and righteously earned is simply a useful tool.
The Lord has actually instructed us in how to use our money wisely and for his good purpose
Here's how to not serve mammon with money or wealth...I hope it will be a revelation for you.
Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.
Mammon ---is money combined with greed.
Or would it just be more wise for me to Live in the desert such as Moses did and the Lord will provide so I don't have to burden anybody by asking for something for free that they themselves have worked for without me personally doing anything in return which in itself would be prideful expecting to be served by others.
As if I am King and everybody else are my subjects.
Or are you suggesting we all line up at home depot and wait for people to drive up and tell us hey YOU
Yeah, I want you to come work for me and I want it now and I'm not gonna pay you anything for it because you're a christian and youre greedy if you want anything in return but I still want something from you and I expect you to like it.
As for the poor...they are blessed
Luke 6:20
Looking at his disciples, he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
As for the Rich man...he is just a poor man with money...what he does with that money is the deciding factor in whether he serves mammon or uses his wealth for the Lord according to his purpose.
Lastly, work and labor is a blessing of the Lord, as anyone can see the human body is designed for labor,
I've been both poor and well off.
I know the struggle of starving, being cold, but I still never asked for a handout and furthermore worked for what meager means I needed to simply survive.
The Lord does provide and such experience has only caused me to appreciate all the more any and all blessings the Lord provides
I still have never sat on my butt asking for handouts when I am physically capable of even going out to the river and eating flower petals for sustenance. Why burden anyone else when one could always go back to mowing a lawn to earn their daily bread?
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Again I say what constitution. It is already destroyed because it can be manipulated. Money hasn't been backed "by gold or silver" since before I was born. Fiat currency is a system which stands only on our ignorance.
Men do not keep peace because of some written law, but by the law of Christ written on the heart.
And work is not the problem, but what we are working for.
Men do not keep peace because of some written law, but by the law of Christ written on the heart.
And work is not the problem, but what we are working for.
If you choose that is your choice,but can you or anyone else explain why the ONLY epistle that even remotely deals with the Sabbath is the letter to the HEBREWS and the whole thing on the Sabbath is a warning to JEWISH believers to enter the Sabbath rest? Why is it NOT mentioned to any of the GENTILE churches when the Gentiles were NEVER given the ten commandments? How would would the Gentiles even know of the Sabbath if it was never explained to them in the first place? Why is it left out of the letters to the Gentile churches when the Gentiles were never given the commandments written on stone?
M
Correct, Gold and silver had been used for thousands of years up until what...just 42 years ago.
Sign of the times?
so now anyone can see the slowwwwwwwww progression to blind eyes of the problem toward the big picture.
Yet it's been foretold what's going to happen, so why fight it? Why try to change Gods prophecies?
It will only serve to prolong it.
Why not do all we can for Christ until the day of the Lord. And our final day of rest.
Sign of the times?
so now anyone can see the slowwwwwwwww progression to blind eyes of the problem toward the big picture.
Yet it's been foretold what's going to happen, so why fight it? Why try to change Gods prophecies?
It will only serve to prolong it.
Why not do all we can for Christ until the day of the Lord. And our final day of rest.