For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[SarahM777]

Shaul did not talk about every matter in every letter, are you sure we have every letter he wrote?

Yahweh's calendar was kept comonly until about the 16th century, that is where "April Fools Day" came from, those who kept Yahweh's calendar, which starts around April were called fools, so to think everyone was ignorant of it in the 1st century is not realistic.

You use false precepts to debate your points.

Paul said this to the church at Rome

Romans 14


Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

If the Sabbath was still binding on the Gentiles this is where he would have done so but HE SAYS the above. It was the perfect place for him to lay out the Sabbath requirements YET HE DOES NO SUCH THING.

 

[john832]

Paul said this to the church at Rome

Romans 14


Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

If the Sabbath was still binding on the Gentiles this is where he would have done so but HE SAYS the above.

Glad I saved this so all I have to do is C&P...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12


twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

 

[just-me]

As long as there are 2 threads abut the Sabbath, I thought I would post this in both.

I have heard that the ten commandments, and only the ten commandments describe the essence of love, which is the fulfillment of the love commandment taught by Christ Jesus. I would never say that this is far from the truth. Nevertheless, that isn't the complete picture, taking into account the chronology of how God gave the law to Moses. It is very true that the commandment to keep the Sabbath day holy is a substantial necessity for us to appreciate the bigger picture of our God's beauty. The Bible says that the law will be written on our hearts instead of tablets of stone, so let's look at the love commandments, and the commandments written on stones as seen in the Bible.

1. Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. They were not written on stone. The stones were offered later.

Exodus 20:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 24:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

2. The Commandments written by God on stone pertained to the building of the Temple, and the duties of the Priesthood. This is after the Ten Commandments, plus much more as you will read in chapters 20 through 23. The first things written in stone were directions for the making of the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 24:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

Exodus 25:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.

Shittim wood is the wood that was used to build Noah's ark. The word "gopher" in the Hebrew language means the directions of what wood is to be used and how to cut it for the purpose of constructing the boat enabling it to be worthy and fit for what its purpose was. You might want to use the time off that God gave us to meditate on that concept. That's what the Sabbath is for.

2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Jeremiah 31:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

3. The heartfelt love for God and our brothers and sisters in Christ is defined in principle in the Old Testament.

Matthew 22:37-40 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Deuteronomy 6:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Luke 10:26-28 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Leviticus 19:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

4. So why is the seventh day of the week, or the Sabbath so important for us, and why would we want to neglect what God made for us?

Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

1 Thessalonians 1:2-3 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

At the end of the week, or the end of God seeing us through a difficult circumstance, to glorify God by sharing what we see in the grandeur of our Creator is the substantial purpose of setting all other things aside, and remembering the grace of God, and loving our brothers and sisters enough to share this truth in our lives with them.

Romans 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law [Sabbath] for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Why did God rest on the seventh day? Because all that He had done the previous 6 days were perfect and good. He wanted to witness His works, and He wants us to witness His works with Him. So He made the seventh day for us to see the same things, and even more, by His Spirit of truth, and security. Let us not degrade this day, for the gift of the Sabbath day is very important for the gift of faith. Is Saturday always the Sabbath? Not really, and neither is Sunday, but we can use either day to do the same thing. Seven is the key number, and it claims the finishing of good things from God. The end.

2 Corinthians 10:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth

 

[SarahM777]

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

You left OUT verse 5

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

 

[john832]

You left OUT verse 5

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Oh yeah, oh my, this one misquoted verse completely refutes the exegesis of Rom 14.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The KJV renders this as "esteemeth", let's see if your "considers more sacred" really holds up...

Strong's has it...

G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

Thayer has it...


krinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one’s case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469

Nothing there about sacred or applying to sacred things. It has to do with exactly what the KJV AND the NKJV says,the day decided on. Decided on for what? Again, context is king...

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

The definition of the word and the context show it is about which days one chooses to FAST on.

 

[Hizikyah]

You left OUT verse 5

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

What does Yahweh consider? That should be the only important thing.

 

[JaumeJ]

The enemy loves when the members of the Body of Yeshua dispute with each other and leave the Gospel aside. The cross and salvation. Concern yourselves with this and not the traditions each have. Remember Jesus, Yeshua chided the hypocrites for holding rabbinical teaching above the teaching from the Word. Rabbinical teachings today are the doctirinal nit pickings between denominations. Stay away from this whenever possible.............

 

[Hizikyah]

Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh
Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."

*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

 

[SarahM777]

You also leave out verse 4 which breaks his thoughts then he goes verse 5. Verses 1-3 is an example of what he talking about in verse 5-9. It is not a continued thought from 1-9.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[SarahM777]

Oh yeah, oh my, this one misquoted verse completely refutes the exegesis of Rom 14.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The KJV renders this as "esteemeth", let's see if your "considers more sacred" really holds up...

Strong's has it...

G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

Thayer has it...


krinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one’s case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469

Nothing there about sacred or applying to sacred things. It has to do with exactly what the KJV AND the NKJV says,the day decided on. Decided on for what? Again, context is king...

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

The definition of the word and the context show it is about which days one chooses to FAST on.

You have taken verses 5- 9 out of context by leaving verse 4 out.

 

[Hizikyah]

There is a reason this was written:

2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Today people are using their misunderstanding of Shaul's writings to justify their transgressions. We live in a time when Shual is ripped from the context of the Scriptures, even the words of Messiah taken out of context and true interpretation and taught in the churches around the world. Thing is, these misunderstanding and lack of Scriptural knowledge and so engrained in the people they can not see anything else, and anyone who does not agree with their isolated view of Scripture is "fallen."

We must pray, study and understand all Scripture, and when we get to a idea that seems contradictive instead of just ignoring it we must investigate it and all Scriptures supporting and "seemingly" contradicting it, then and only then will we begin to understand.

I used to be guilty of reading;

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

And sayin "those who are justified by works are fallen that is wrong!." THESE ARE THE WORDS OF MESSIAH, if there is any words we can trust they are His and Yahweh's, now, after studying Scripture honestly, I have come to realize my understand was flawed and there 2 verse are not in contradiction, and now I take all Scripture in to consifderation when seeking a understanding.

 

[john832]

You have taken verses 5- 9 out of context by leaving verse 4 out.

Well alrighty then, let's take them in context...

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

And it says don't judge someone for determining to fast on a day and don't judge someone for determining not to fast on a day.

Taken in context, there is NOTHING here about the Sabbath.

 

[john832]

What is extremely interesting about the Sabbath is that NO ONE EVER has a problem with #5 or #6 or #7, etc. I have yet to hear someone argue that it is OK to murder or commit adultery. The only one that is argued is the Sabbath command.

 

[Hizikyah]

What is extremely interesting about the Sabbath is that NO ONE EVER has a problem with #5 or #6 or #7, etc. I have yet to hear someone argue that it is OK to murder or commit adultery. The only one that is argued is the Sabbath command.

satan has worked hard for this:

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world..."

because the 7th day Sabbath is opposite of the mark of the beast, the 7th day Sabbath IS the mark of Yahweh and this is Scriptural:

*Sign is Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

THE WORD SIGN MEANS MARK, COULD BE TRANSLATED MARK AND WOULD BE A 100% CORRECT TRANSLATION:

Ezekiel 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

Exodus 31:13-17, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy"....16-17, "Therefore the children of Israyl shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israyl forever, for in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, and on the Seventh Day He rested and was refreshed."

the world has taken another mark, and even calls Yahweh's mark evil, burdensome, etc.

 

[john832]

Another interesting point is the Sabbath is a separate covenant...

Exo 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

This Covenant looks down through time to the Kingdom of God in the Millenium...

Isa 56:1 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed.

Salvation is about to COME! Future.

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."
Isa 56:3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."
Isa 56:4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,

He is not speaking to the Old Covenant here, He is speaking to the Sabbath Covenant and that pleases Him.

Isa 56:5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.

We call it eternal life.

Isa 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—
Isa 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

And when will God's house be a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS...

After the New Covenant is established...

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

(NKJV throughout)

 

[SarahM777]

Well alrighty then, let's take them in context...

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

And it says don't judge someone for determining to fast on a day and don't judge someone for determining not to fast on a day.

Taken in context, there is NOTHING here about the Sabbath.

Where does it say fasting in there? There is not one word that says fasting. It does say observing a day. Is observing the Sabbath observing a day or not?

And not judging goes both ways,which is what this is about when one says that salvation is dependent on observing the Sabbath.

 

[Hizikyah]

Where does it say fasting in there? There is not one word that says fasting. It does say observing a day. Is observing the Sabbath observing a day or not?

And not judging goes both ways,which is what this is about when one says that salvation is dependent on observing the Sabbath.

So do you believe Shaul is abolishing something Yahweh ordained since the foundation of the earth, said would never be done away and Messiah upheld and also said never would be done away?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Has heaven and earth passed? Have all things been perfected?

NO?

Then IF you believe and follow Yahshua the Messiah you would believe and know nothing has passed from the Law.

Again, a false understanding of Shaul seems to be most peoples Messiah.

 

[SarahM777]

So do you believe Shaul is abolishing something Yahweh ordained since the foundation of the earth, said would never be done away and Messiah upheld and also said never would be done away?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Has heaven and earth passed? Have all things been perfected?

NO?

Then IF you believe and follow Yahshua the Messiah you would believe and know nothing has passed from the Law.

Again, a false understanding of Shaul seems to be most peoples Messiah.

UMM So do you do all 613 laws of the Mosaic law? (That is what Jesus is talking about) God gave Moses ALL 613 laws contained in the Mosaic covenant.

 

[Hizikyah]

UMM So do you do all 613 laws of the Mosaic law? (That is what Jesus is talking about) God gave Moses ALL 613 laws contained in the Mosaic covenant.

yesm I know I am not perfect but yes I do subject myself to ALL of Yahweh's Laws 613 plus, I am still in training and will be for my entire life, after all to be more like our perfect example doesnt happen over night!

And yes I did a Sacrifice ONE TIME! I accepted the Messiah, and I think Yahweh for His Sacrificial Law that allowed the unblemished Passover Lamb; Yahshua the Messiah to take the place of the guilty, (me).

and I am also very tahnkful for the priestly Laws that allow Yahshua to be my High Priest and Mediator now!

You see animal sacrifice and levitical priesthood were never the real THEY WERE THE TEMPORARY STAND INS.

and all of Yahweh's Laws show me how I need to behave and I love them, I would rather follow them than be rich!

(I can see it now, how evil he must be he ACTUALLY wants to obey!, what a heretic!!!!!!) Shaul went through this also:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

The children of Yahweh truly love His Laws! you see they are written in our hearts!!!!!

 

[chubbena]

Come now that is not a valid argument.

You are adding to the law of God, making the law a burden. Our using the internet is not the cause of those people working. Plus you missus the commandment.

It Says:

"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates"

I don't know about you, but I don't have these guys living in or at my house in my care. I am glad you do not make the laws or else I would not be able to drink water from the tap or turn a light switch on.

I hope you get the point, The Sabbath you are trying to teach is a burden like what the Jews did. We obey the law of God not the traditions of man.

Not the Jews. Not the Jews but just a sect of Judaism whom Yeshua always speaks against.