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PS

PS

Senior Member
#41
Jan 11, 2013
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#41
Dino246 said:
I don't see how that supports the idea that Jesus is a "mere human being and prophet".
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"The Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit." So who is he? Answer: he was a baby boy born 2000 years ago, long after the world was created.

The Trinitarian formula has done incredible harm to Christianity. I know because I have been trying to undo that harm for the last 19 years.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#42
Jun 30, 2015
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#42
PS said:
"The Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit." So who is he? Answer: he was a baby boy born 2000 years ago, long after the world was created.

The Trinitarian formula has done incredible harm to Christianity. I know because I have been trying to undo that harm for the last 19 years.
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The statement, "The Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit" does not in any way imply that Jesus was merely a human baby born long after the world was created.

You may have other ideas that you associate with the trinitarian statement, but you aren't articulating them here. As you have stated the problem, it is a non sequitur, and is nowhere near being a sound and convincing argument.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#43
Jan 11, 2013
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#43
Dino246 said:
The statement, "The Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit" does not in any way imply that Jesus was merely a human baby born long after the world was created.

You may have other ideas that you associate with the trinitarian statement, but you aren't articulating them here. As you have stated the problem, it is a non sequitur, and is nowhere near being a sound and convincing argument.
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That is what people take it to mean. And the Bible tells us he was born a baby boy.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#44
Jun 30, 2015
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#44
PS said:
That is what people take it to mean. And the Bible tells us he was born a baby boy.
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The Bible says much more than that about the Son.

As you have presented it, your argument holds no water.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#45
Jan 11, 2013
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#45
Dino246 said:
The Bible says much more than that about the Son.

As you have presented it, your argument holds no water.
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O' boy. You try telling people otherwise.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#46
Jun 30, 2015
24,681
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#46
PS said:
O' boy. You try telling people otherwise.
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I'd show them what the Bible says. If they don't accept it, that's on them. I'm content showing people the truth and telling them that their position is inconsistent with Scripture. How they respond is between them and God.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#47
Jul 2, 2011
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#47
I cannot understand why Isaiah 9:6 does not say it all in resolving this debate? That is unless people pick and choose what our Father tells us through His prophets.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#48
Jan 11, 2013
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#48
Dino246 said:
I'd show them what the Bible says. If they don't accept it, that's on them. I'm content showing people the truth and telling them that their position is inconsistent with Scripture. How they respond is between them and God.
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Trouble is, the Trinitarian formula gives them ammunition. They say, "you are a Christian and this is what Christians teach,"
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#49
Jan 11, 2013
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#49
JaumeJ said:
I cannot understand why Isaiah 9:6 does not say it all in resolving this debate? That is unless people pick and choose what our Father tells us through His prophets.
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Isaiah 9:6 says it all.

But you won't find this written the Bible.

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#50
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
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#50
PS said:
Isaiah 9:6 says it all.

But you won't find this written the Bible.

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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Forgive me. I did red that earlier, and I know it is not in the Word. Where did that com from?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#51
Jun 30, 2015
24,681
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#51
PS said:
Trouble is, the Trinitarian formula gives them ammunition. They say, "you are a Christian and this is what Christians teach,"
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If you can't defend yourself against attacks of this sort, the problem is not with your theology, but with your skill level. :)
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#52
Jan 11, 2013
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#52
Dino246 said:
If you can't defend yourself against attacks of this sort, the problem is not with your theology, but with your skill level. :)
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You are beginning to offend me.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#53
Jan 11, 2013
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#53
JaumeJ said:
Forgive me. I did red that earlier, and I know it is not in the Word. Where did that com from?
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There is a triangular diagram that shows the three persons of the Trinity and within the diagram are those words. I cannot find it now but will try and google it again if you ask me. :)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#54
Jun 30, 2015
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#54
PS said:
You are beginning to offend me.
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Grow a thicker skin. Your offendedness isn't going to convince anyone of the rightness of your position, and your inability to defend against the most basic fallacious attacks indicates that you have a lot to learn. I'm not your enemy.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#55
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#55
PS said:
Isaiah 9:6 says it all.

But you won't find this written the Bible.

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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Well this is what I think of these assertions:

You cannot separate the Father from the Spirit.
You cannot separate Christ from the Spirit.
Therefore the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son.

That is what gives them their oneness. :D(y)
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#56
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#56
PS said:
Hebrews 1 speaks of the Supremacy of the Son.
.
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What is so important to us is to not believe that the Son is superior to the Father.

The lord God gave us the Son for our salvation. It is important that we know of God as including all of God and not special parts of God. We are to praise God daily, and if we praise only the Son, we are not praising God but praising an idol that we make up in our own heads.

It is a simple concept as God's truths are always simple. Scholars try to pull us away, but we need to hold fast against them and cling to the word, and the word tells us God is one.

Christ explained it thoroughly:
John 14: 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#57
Dec 12, 2013
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#57
Dino246 said:
I don't see how that supports the idea that Jesus is a "mere human being and prophet".
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The bible does say he EMPTIED HIMSELF, sat down the glory he had with the Father and was born in the likeness of sinful flesh and born of a women and called the Son of David

He is just as much the Son of man as he is the son of God.......
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#58
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#58
Blik said:

What is so important to us is to not believe that the Son is superior to the Father.

The lord God gave us the Son for our salvation. It is important that we know of God as including all of God and not special parts of God. We are to praise God daily, and if we praise only the Son, we are not praising God but praising an idol that we make up in our own heads.

It is a simple concept as God's truths are always simple. Scholars try to pull us away, but we need to hold fast against them and cling to the word, and the word tells us God is one.

Christ explained it thoroughly:
John 14: 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
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This is true and plainly stated a little later in that same chapter:

John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Nevertheless, I do not think there is any jealousy in the Godhead. Even if we don't understand how they relate but we must have the Son in order to have life:

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

1 John 5:12 "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." Set, point, game, Jesus. :cool:
 
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