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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#21
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,869
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#21
Blik said:
I reject the idea that God gave away His power, so God is made less by Christ..
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Let me say at the start Blik that you are COMPLETELY OUT OF YOUR DEPTH in this matter. You should be learning, rather than trying to teach. What you just said is that you reject God's plans and purposes and that you have no clue. God the Father loves God the Son in a very special way. Therefore He has handed over all power and authority to the Son. That does not mean that the Father has been diminished. It means that GOD IS GLORIFIED IN HIS SON.
We are to report truth here, none of us are Gods.
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Where did this come from? No one has claimed to be God.
I stake my life on that God is one.
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Did you not agree above that even though God is one, and at the same time we have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? So what exactly are you saying? Do you or do you not believe in the triune Godhead.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#22
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#22
Nehemiah6 said:
Which means that you have a DEFICIENT VIEW of the Godhead. Why not go through the Bible once again and see that God is ONE yet revealed to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

People should not try to use their human reasoning to understand these fundamental divine truths. This is the Mystery of God and Christ.
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Is not God 1 unchanging, omnipresent, omnipotent power?
So apart from the flesh, what separates Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#23
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#23
PS said:
Is not God 1 unchanging, omnipresent, omnipotent power?
So apart from the flesh, what separates Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
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Notice I said ONE unchanging, omnipresent, omnipotent power, and not three powers.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#24
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#24
Nehemiah6 said:
Let me say at the start Blik that you are COMPLETELY OUT OF YOUR DEPTH in this matter. You should be learning, rather than trying to teach. What you just said is that you reject God's plans and purposes and that you have no clue. God the Father loves God the Son in a very special way. Therefore He has handed over all power and authority to the Son. That does not mean that the Father has been diminished. It means that GOD IS GLORIFIED IN HIS SON.

Where did this come from? No one has claimed to be God.

Did you not agree above that even though God is one, and at the same time we have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? So what exactly are you saying? Do you or do you not believe in the triune Godhead.
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The only difference between Son and Father is location. Jesus came down from heavens glory to be with us and to redeem us which is something the Father did not do. Otherwise there is no difference, neither can there be, because the glory of the Father dwelt in Jesus and the whole plan of salvation was orchestrated by the Father.

Revelation 1:7-8 Jesus was the Almighty.
Genesis 17:1 And the Almighty was God.

John 8:58 Jesus was the "I Am"
Exodus 3:14 and the "I Am" was God

Acts 3:14 Jesus was the "HOLY ONE"
Isaiah 43:15 and the "HOLY ONE" was God

John 8:24 Jesus is "I Am He"
Isaiah 43:10 and the "I Am He" was God

Revelation 22:13 Jesus is the "First and the Last"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "First and the Last" was God

I Corinthians 10:4 Jesus was "The Rock"
Psalm 18:31 and "The Rock" was God

II Corinthians 11:2 Jesus was the "One HUSBAND"
Jeremiah 31:32 and the "One HUSBAND" was God

Matthew 23:8 Jesus was the "ONE MASTER"
Malachi 1:6 and the "ONE MASTER" was God

John 10:16 Jesus was the "One SHEPHERD"
Isaiah 40:11 and the "ONE SHEPHERD" was God

Acts 4:12 Jesus was the "ONE SAVIOR"
Isaiah 45:21 and the "ONE SAVIOR" was God

Luke 1:68 Jesus was the "ONE REDEEMER"
Isaiah 41:14 and the "ONE REDEEMER" was God

Revelation 19:16 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
1 Timothy 6:14 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
Deuteronomy 10:17 and the "LORD OF LORDS" was God

Philippians 2:10 Every knee must bow to Jesus
Isaiah 45:23 Every knee must bow to God

John 1: 3-10 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Isaiah 44:24 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Genesis 1:1 and the "ONE CREATOR" was God

John 1:49 Jesus was "KING OF ISRAEL"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "KING OF ISRAEL" was God

I reckon Trinitarianism and Modalism are both heretical in their own way and Trinitarianism in particular diminishes Jesus to the level of a mere human being and prophet instead of giving him all the honour and glory that is due to him.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#25
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
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#25
Did not Jesus say to the disciple, if you see Me you have seen the Father? People the word, Godhead is used inthe Epistles to refer to Jesus, but it is not a dogma no a doctrine; learn that it is just one word.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#26
Jun 30, 2015
24,680
13,366
113
#26
PS said:
I reckon Trinitarianism and Modalism are both heretical in their own way and Trinitarianism in particular diminishes Jesus to the level of a mere human being and prophet instead of giving him all the honour and glory that is due to him.
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I was about to give this a like until I read this last bit.

Where do you get the idea that "Trinitarianism ... diminishes Jesus to the level of of a mere human being and prophet"?

Maybe you've been reading to many Moslem misinterpretations of the trinity?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#27
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
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#27
Dino246 said:
I don’t completely misrepresent your words and slam you for believing what I mistakenly think you believe. You do that to me (and to others).

Saying you’re using a strawman argument is not immature. It’s calling you on a logical fallacy. Perhaps instead of feeling offended you should look up the term.
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If I have ever slammed you I certainly didn't mean to. We are to discuss scripture here, not personalities. I have found that your habit of cutting off discussion with absolutes without scripture backup makes it impossible for us.

As an example you tossed out all the scripture I gave as God showing us that He did not surrender his power and authority but extended it as we were discussing you told me all these scriptures did not apply to the question, ending our reasoning together with your "strawman".

We have to give up on discussions together because of this, but that is just something we have to live with, it is not slamming you.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#28
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#28
Dino246 said:
I was about to give this a like until I read this last bit.

Where do you get the idea that "Trinitarianism ... diminishes Jesus to the level of of a mere human being and prophet"?

Maybe you've been reading to many Moslem misinterpretations of the trinity?
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The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit.
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#29
May 22, 2019
898
318
63
Bahrain
#29
They are the same. If you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#30
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#30
PS said:
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit.
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Follow the following steps...

a. Get scissors or a match
b. Cut out or burn Hebrews chapter 1
c. Go your merry way thinking you are right in your own mind.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#31
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#31
dcontroversal said:
Follow the following steps...

a. Get scissors or a match
b. Cut out or burn Hebrews chapter 1
c. Go your merry way thinking you are right in your own mind.
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Hebrews 1 speaks of the Supremacy of the Son.

Verse 8 says about the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.

If we include the Holy Spirit, as we have to, the world concludes there are three gods in Christianity. There has to be, because Christians themselves say:

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

Therefore the Father is one god, the Son is another god, and the Holy Spirit is another god.

This is heresy at it's worst.
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#32
May 22, 2019
898
318
63
Bahrain
#32
PS said:
Hebrews 1 speaks of the Supremacy of the Son.

because Christians themselves say:

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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Who says that ?
 
G

Gift1982

Junior Member
#33
Apr 17, 2018
39
2
8
#33
The question is kinda unnecessary in a sense, when you read and accept Matthew 1:23 .
They are one in the same. Christ is God with us . God came to this earth as Christ to provide Salvation for His children.
That would also reinforce Hebrews 2:14 and John 1. This is fundamental . Hebrews 1:3-14 ; etc.

The Father the son and the word, or the Holy Spirit , all three of these are one in the same. Three roles One God . The trinity. Its no different than you taking on different roles in life to different people . God fulfilling His prophecy . ( I would avoid all the confusion and slogans that people have been taught about what the trinity means which when you read plainly dont make sense and contradict what The Bible says . ) Just stick with scripture purely .

Hope that helps ...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#34
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#34
PS said:
Hebrews 1 speaks of the Supremacy of the Son.

Verse 8 says about the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.

If we include the Holy Spirit, as we have to, the world concludes there are three gods in Christianity. There has to be, because Christians themselves say:

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

Therefore the Father is one god, the Son is another god, and the Holy Spirit is another god.

This is heresy at it's worst.
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Jesus IS <--BE VERB ->>the PHYSICAL ICON of the INVISIBLE FATHER

Get your facts straight....!!!
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#35
May 22, 2019
898
318
63
Bahrain
#35
but your post alluded to that chrisitans say that Only one person has said it , rightly or wrongly.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#36
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#36
dcontroversal said:
Jesus IS <--BE VERB ->>the PHYSICAL ICON of the INVISIBLE FATHER

Get your facts straight....!!!
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That is what the Bible says, Trintarians say differently. They say:-

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#37
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#37
PS said:
That is what the Bible says, Trintarians say differently. They say:-

The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit
The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
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I have never seen that, and it is also just as foolish to deny one God manifested three ways..........
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#39
Jun 30, 2015
24,680
13,366
113
#39
Blik said:
If I have ever slammed you I certainly didn't mean to. We are to discuss scripture here, not personalities. I have found that your habit of cutting off discussion with absolutes without scripture backup makes it impossible for us.

As an example you tossed out all the scripture I gave as God showing us that He did not surrender his power and authority but extended it as we were discussing you told me all these scriptures did not apply to the question, ending our reasoning together with your "strawman".

We have to give up on discussions together because of this, but that is just something we have to live with, it is not slamming you.
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Blik, let me be perfectly clear...

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT GOD THE FATHER COMPLETELY SURRENDERED HIS POWER AND AUTHORITY.

You keep implying that I think He did. That's why I called your argument a strawman. You're welcome to engage, or refrain from engaging, in discussion, but at least try to understand my position instead of persistently misunderstanding it.
 
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