Forbidden to look at Big 10?

[Jason0047]

Look dude Jason, maybe your book is labeled the Bible but all the little interpretations of it went wrong somewhere in your cognitive processes of your mind.

Tell me Ephesians 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. If your interpretation of that is different then something is twisting the hemispheres of your brain and it is not processing words correctly.

I grew up Catholic, went to private schools under Catholic instructions, and I could never connect how doing a mast amount of good works would help save me, it was always through grace and faith and my belief in Jesus Christ that I would be able to do so because that is what was in my Bible, and all Bibles. Once a teenager, I came to realize I was a Christian, not a labeled Catholic Christian because there were somethings there imposed by man that if you do good deeds those are adding up and apparently you get your name placed on a higher spot in the Book in Heaven. Makes no sense why God would do that.

I think you need read Proverbs 18: 2, A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. And Revelation 22: 18-19, I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this books: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in the book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (i.e. The Bible).

Godspeed Jason.

-Kim

Before I answer your post, I would like it if you would at least answer one of my questions in regards to Scripture that I brought up.

Can you be forgiven if you do not forgive?

Well, Matthew 6:15 does not seem to think so. Which means..... that there are conditions to God's promises in regards to salvation.

If you do not believe me, just read the whole chapter here for yourself.

Matthew 6 KJV

Now, please take note..... I do not believe that I am saved by my works alone. I believe God does the "good work" in me and He helps me to obey His Word. Again, see Ezekiel 36:26-27. It says God will give the believer (Both the OT saint and the NT saint) a new heart, and a new spirit and then He will put His Spirit within them so as to keep His laws and statutes. This can also be seen in the New Testament, too. For we are to be born again spiritually and we are to do all things thru Christ which strengthens us. Do you know that the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus? Why did they do that? Did they not earn those crowns? Well, they threw them down before Jesus because it was Christ who was working in them. Does any of that make sense to you? Does it sound lke it was their work or God's work (that moved within them)?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The school master is the Law of Moses and not the Law of Christ or the Commands given to us by Jesus christ and the apostles.

well look here, Jason finally got something right.

Listen dude, The law of moses condemns you every minute of every day, When you FINALLY realise then, THEN you can finaly humble yourself to go to the throneroom of Christ and ask for his grace and mercy, Until then. the schooLmaster can not do what it was intended to do. lead you to Christ.

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4); And Paul says that what he has written to us should be considered as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul said that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Also, what does the grace of God teach us? At the end of Titus chapter 2, we learn that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and that we should walk in righteousness and godliness. Do you believe the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness as the Scriptures say?

You sin every day and deny it. You excuse your sin while judging others. The law of moses has yet to teach you what grace is.

 

[Gr8grace]

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Exactly. The believer will have no armor. Just "I quit smoking","I quit drinking","I quit cussing","I quit porn","I quit being mean","I quit gossiping","I changed my personality"," I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I..............

When in reality, putting on the armor is spiritual and morality is a natural result of spirituality.

But morality has never and will never lead to spirituality or the armor that we need.

 

[KJB]

Before I answer your post, I would like it if you would at least answer one of my questions in regards to Scripture that I brought up.

Can you be forgiven if you do not forgive?

Well, Matthew 6:15 does not seem to think so. Which means..... that there are conditions to God's promises in regards to salvation.

If you do not believe me, just read the whole chapter here for yourself.

Matthew 6 KJV

Now, please take note..... I do not believe that I am saved by my works alone. I believe God does the "good work" in me and He helps me to obey His Word. Again, see Ezekiel 36:26-27. It says God will give the believer (Both the OT saint and the NT saint) a new heart, and a new spirit and then He will put His Spirit within them so as to keep His laws and statutes. This can also be seen in the New Testament, too. For we are to be born again spiritually and we are to do all things thru Christ which strengthens us. Do you know that the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus? Why did they do that? Did they not earn those crowns? Well, they threw them down before Jesus because it was Christ who was working in them. Does any of that make sense to you? Does it sound lke it was their work or God's work (that moved within them)?

This made more sense than anything you've said, kind of. Yes, the Lord will help me do good deeds, help me to know to forgive, if I learn how to forgive through Him then that means I have been forgiven because I have already accepted Jesus Christ. This is not a condition as you though, it is a result of you having grace and faith in His Word and in His Son, our Jesus Christ, that is the reason why you learn to forgive.

 

[Willie-T]

This made more sense than anything you've said, kind of. Yes, the Lord will help me do good deeds, help me to know to forgive, if I learn how to forgive through Him then that means I have been forgiven because I have already accepted Jesus Christ. This is not a condition as you though, it is a result of you having grace and faith in His Word and in His Son, our Jesus Christ, that is the reason why you learn to forgive.

Beautiful font in this post!! (Even if it IS green)

 

[Willie-T]

This made more sense than anything you've said, kind of. Yes, the Lord will help me do good deeds, help me to know to forgive, if I learn how to forgive through Him then that means I have been forgiven because I have already accepted Jesus Christ. This is not a condition as you though, it is a result of you having grace and faith in His Word and in His Son, our Jesus Christ, that is the reason why you learn to forgive.

Well, I have to say Jason seems to be right on here.... If we never do develop a forgiving heart......... Was our heart ever really Jesus'?

 

[Jason0047]

well look here, Jason finally got something right.

Listen dude, The law of moses condemns you every minute of every day,

No, no. The Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding today as an entire package or contract. Paul was talking to those who were struggling in wanting to go back to the Law of Moses when it was no longer binding. The Scriptures say that the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). This makes sense because we don't sacrifice animals to a priest anymore. We do not render an eye for an eye anymore but we turn the other cheek instead. We can even now eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law). So no. The Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding. Granted, certain moral laws from the OT have been carried over into the NT, but that does not mean the ceremonial laws and the judicial laws in the Old Testament from the Law of Moses is still binding in any way. That would be ridiculous to make such a claim because we know both the Commands in the Old and the Commands in the New clearly conflict with one another. For one either follows the Old Law or the New Law. One cannot obey both. It would be impossible.

When you FINALLY realise then, THEN you can finaly humble yourself to go to the throneroom of Christ and ask for his grace and mercy, Until then. the schooLmaster can not do what it was intended to do. lead you to Christ.

Titus chapter 2 says that the grace of God teaches us that we are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. Do you believe that?

You sin every day and deny it.

You are making a false accusation. I do not sin those types of sins that would lead unto death every day (Such as hate, lying, lusting, ect.).

You excuse your sin while judging others.

No. I don't. I confess and forsake my sin as per Proverbs 28:13. I also do not sin habitually as a way of life. There are days I do not even sin.

The law of moses has yet to teach you what grace is.

The Law was not made for a righteous man, but for the ungodly and for sinners. For if the righteous scarcely be saved, then how shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, I have to say Jason seems to be right on here.... If we never do develop a forgiving heart......... Was our heart ever really Jesus'?

we love (unconditional) because he first loved (unconditional) us.

We forgive, because he first forgave us.

if we can not love and forgive others.. why not? (maybe we have never experienced Gods love and forgiveness??

where people like Jason get confused is, they think we must love and forgive first BEFORE God loves and forgives us (in fact is is required to happen BEFORE God will love us according to them) which is impossible.

 

[KJB]

T he Bible is about forgiveness, that is the message. Jesus died for us because our sins would be washed away, our debt is paid off, and that is how forgiveness came to be that our sins can be forgiven. Luke 11: 4 , Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. You can only forgive if you accept Jesus and you are then saved, not the other way around. Luke 18: 9-14 talks about the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee talked about himself, and prayed about how he had done and not been doing. The tax collector asked for mercy, the tax collector was justified before God because he accepted God he humbled himself before good, not brought God the list of good deeds he had done and then asked, so am I good now can I be saved a spot in heaven? The Pharisee had no grace no faith in God so he had no relationship with him.

 

[Jason0047]

This made more sense than anything you've said, kind of. Yes, the Lord will help me do good deeds, help me to know to forgive, if I learn how to forgive through Him then that means I have been forgiven because I have already accepted Jesus Christ. This is not a condition as you though, it is a result of you having grace and faith in His Word and in His Son, our Jesus Christ, that is the reason why you learn to forgive.

Let's understand something here. Jesus was not giving this message to unbelievers. For they cannot understand His teachings unless they are born again spiritually. For that is why Jesus spoke in parables because by hearing they hear but yet they do not hear. For the mysteries of the Kingdom of God are not given to unbelievers. Jesus's message in Matthew 6:15 is exclusive to the believer. For it would do not good for the unbeliever to put into practice of forgiving others if they did not repent of their sins and accept Him as their Savior. For there are many unbelievers today who forgive others and yet they are not going to Heaven. So Jesus' message is spoken to the believer. Jesus makes it clear to the believer (and not the unbeliever) that if they do not forgive, then they will not be forgiven by the Father. So your view that all believers just automatically forgive is a denial of Jesus' very own words. For he is talking to the believer and not the unbeliever.

 

[Jason0047]

T he Bible is about forgiveness, that is the message. Jesus died for us because our sins would be washed away, our debt is paid off, and that is how forgiveness came to be that our sins can be forgiven. Luke 11: 4 , Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. You can only forgive if you accept Jesus and you are then saved, not the other way around. Luke 18: 9-14 talks about the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee talked about himself, and prayed about how he had done and not been doing. The tax collector asked for mercy, the tax collector was justified before God because he accepted God he humbled himself before good, not brought God the list of good deeds he had done and then asked, so am I good now can I be saved a spot in heaven? The Pharisee had no grace no faith in God so he had no relationship with him.

Your future and present sin debt is not paid off. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a new teaching in the Bible. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confess and forsakes sin shall have mercy. 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. This makes sense because 1 John 2:3 says that the way that we know him is by keeping His Commandments. For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). For Titus 2:11-12 says that the Grace of God teaches us that we are to deny ungoldiness and worldly lusts. Is that what your version of God's grace teaches you? It sure doesn't sound like it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, no. The Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding today as an entire package or contract. Paul was talking to those who were struggling in wanting to go back to the Law of Moses when it was no longer binding. The Scriptures say that the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). This makes sense because we don't sacrifice animals to a priest anymore. We do not render an eye for an eye anymore but we turn the other cheek instead. We can even now eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law). So no. The Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding. Granted, certain moral laws from the OT have been carried over into the NT, but that does not mean the ceremonial laws and the judicial laws in the Old Testament from the Law of Moses is still binding in any way. That would be ridiculous to make such a claim because we know both the Commands in the Old and the Commands in the New clearly conflict with one another. For one either follows the Old Law or the New Law. One cannot obey both. It would be impossible.

Dude, you can not obey either of them in a way God demands. Thats where you fall on your face.

The law of moses is only no longer in effect to those who have been born of God. It still is in effect for you my friend, because it has not led you to Christ. You still think you fulfill it.

Titus chapter 2 says that the grace of God teaches us that we are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. Do you believe that?

Those who are born again do do this. in fact they do not have to be told this, because it is their deepest desire.. to please th eone who saved them.

WHy do you refuse to do it? just because you do not do your pet sins you think you are ok? Yet you excuse all your other sins, pride is your biggest downfall. and pride is of the world.

You are making a false accusation. I do not sin those types of sins that would lead unto death every day (Such as hate, lying, lusting, ect.).

lol. ALL sin leads to death my friend, see how you excuse your sin because it is not the one you think causes death?

James said you break thr LEAST OF THE LAW (the smallest sin one can ever commit) you are found guilty of the whole law. and what is the penalty for breaking the law? DEATH!

No. I don't. I confess and forsake my sin as per Proverbs 28:13. I also do not sin habitually as a way of life. There are days I do not even sin.

the pharisees thought the same thing, that is why they could not come to Christ on Christs terms, and were rejected by Christ.

The Law was not made for a righteous man, but for the ungodly and for sinners. For if the righteous scarcely be saved, then how shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

It was made for you my friend, a sinner, (who like the pharisee does not realise he is a sinner) who has yet to be saved by grace, because you reject grace.

 

[Jason0047]

T he Bible is about forgiveness, that is the message. Jesus died for us because our sins would be washed away, our debt is paid off, and that is how forgiveness came to be that our sins can be forgiven. Luke 11: 4 , Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. You can only forgive if you accept Jesus and you are then saved, not the other way around. Luke 18: 9-14 talks about the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee talked about himself, and prayed about how he had done and not been doing. The tax collector asked for mercy, the tax collector was justified before God because he accepted God he humbled himself before good, not brought God the list of good deeds he had done and then asked, so am I good now can I be saved a spot in heaven? The Pharisee had no grace no faith in God so he had no relationship with him.

Your future and present sin debt is not paid off. Only past sin is forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a new teaching in the Bible. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confess and forsakes sin shall have mercy. 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. This makes sense because 1 John 2:3 says that the way that we know him is by keeping His Commandments. For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). Titus 2:11-12 says that the Grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and that we should walk righteously in this present world. Does your version of God's grace teach that?

 

[KJB]

People may have trouble forgiving someone, the unbelievers and those who think they believe, but if you go to Jesus and you truly accept not just say it, then you have given Jesus the burden of forgiving. Jesus Christ gives us the victory of unforgiveness, so He does it for us and He teaches us about it. Matthew 11:29, Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in the heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

I understand that saying I forgive you and not being a believer is not an act that will get them into heaven, in fact, they would have to accept Jesus Christ first and then be able to truly forgive that is what I have been saying. Whatever comes out of my mouth, Jesus Christ comes out first, and then I am able to provide a message of forgiveness, through my grace and faith in God.

Before forgiveness comes repentance though and that is how then we are led to our trespasses to be forgiven. Acts 3:19, Repent ye therefore, be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. It goes again to the same thing as before, you receive the promise of salvation by repenting of your sins, seeking forgiveness from Jesus, learning how to forgive through grace and faith you will continue to know that you are saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jason0047
Senior Member

[h=2] This message is hidden because Jason0047 is on your ignore list. [/h] View Post

Remove user from ignore list



​

Now, if just everyone would do this (this is about the fourth time I have done it.) like crossnote and myself just did, Maybe this guy will LEAVE, since he does not have an audience to preach to.. and we can actually get down to some real discussion about Gods word.

 

[Jason0047]

People may have trouble forgiving someone, the unbelievers and those who think they believe, but if you go to Jesus and you truly accept not just say it, then you have given Jesus the burden of forgiving. Jesus Christ gives us the victory of unforgiveness, so He does it for us and He teaches us about it. Matthew 11:29, Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in the heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

I understand that saying I forgive you and not being a believer is not an act that will get them into heaven, in fact, they would have to accept Jesus Christ first and then be able to truly forgive that is what I have been saying. Whatever comes out of my mouth, Jesus Christ comes out first, and then I am able to provide a message of forgiveness, through my grace and faith in God.

Before forgiveness comes repentance though and that is how then we are led to our trespasses to be forgiven. Acts 3:19, Repent ye therefore, be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. It goes again to the same thing as before, you receive the promise of salvation by repenting of your sins, seeking forgiveness from Jesus, learning how to forgive through grace and faith you will continue to know that you are saved.

Again, who was Jesus talking to? Believers or unbelievers? How can his message of forgiveness be applied if they did not accept Jesus yet? Does not Matthew 6:15 speak to the believer because of this? If that is the case, then logic dictates that the believer can be unforgiven if he chooses not to forgive according to Jesus's words in Matthew 6:15. For Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father. Such words would be utter non-sense to the believer (and they wouldn't even understand because they do not even have salvation).

 

[ember]

We are talking about the salvation of men's souls here. I am sorry that such a topic bores you. For me it is very serious and I would prefer that would not mock such a discussion that is important to our Lord.

you had to go there

are you trying to say you did not know I meant your outrageous posts and the way people respond to you knowing full well it is not going to make any iota of difference and vice versa?

kindly pull your horns in...no need to insult me and say salvation is boring to me

even this post is a waste, but just in case anyone does not know well enough the bullying you do around here in twisting what people say and constantly derailing every thread that you can...and since you are so inventive in your biblical disertations, that amounts to an awful lot of threads

you know honestly, you are so self-congratulatory, you remind me of little ole Napoleon grabbing the crown and crowing himself rather then waiting for the proper authority to do so

do you live in the Himalayas? I'm asking because I think you might be suffering from oxygen depriviation

 

[KJB]

[/COLOR]Dude, you can not obey either of them in a way God demands. Thats where you fall on your face.

The law of moses is only no longer in effect to those who have been born of God. It still is in effect for you my friend, because it has not led you to Christ. You still think you fulfill it.
...............


It was made for you my friend, a sinner, (who like the pharisee does not realise he is a sinner) who has yet to be saved by grace, because you reject grace.

Amen brother.

 

[Jason0047]

you had to go there

are you trying to say you did not know I meant your outrageous posts and the way people respond to you knowing full well it is not going to make any iota of difference and vice versa?

kindly pull your horns in...no need to insult me and say salvation is boring to me

even this post is a waste, but just in case anyone does not know well enough the bullying you do around here in twisting what people say and constantly derailing every thread that you can...and since you are so inventive in your biblical disertations, that amounts to an awful lot of threads

you know honestly, you are so self-congratulatory, you remind me of little ole Napoleon grabbing the crown and crowing himself rather then waiting for the proper authority to do so

do you live in the Himalayas? I'm asking because I think you might be suffering from oxygen depriviation

God's Word never returns void. So I do not believe you when I believe it is good and right to preach the Word and correct others.

As for your statement about being bored. Even if you were referring to my statements exclusively, it could be misunderstood by another that you are saying that such a topic is boring to you in general by what you had written. That is the impression I got. For you are not discussing this topic with love and respect by using God's Word here. You are only interested in attacking me instead of discussing the issue with Scripture.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason0047
Senior Member

This message is hidden because Jason0047 is on your ignore list.

View Post

Remove user from ignore list



​

Now, if just everyone would do this (this is about the fourth time I have done it.) like crossnote and myself just did, Maybe this guy will LEAVE, since he does not have an audience to preach to.. and we can actually get down to some real discussion about Gods word.

I do sure hope everyone here puts me on ignore. Then I will be able to correct them without anyone trying to provide verses back out of context to defend a sin and still be saved doctrine. Then other readers who come accross this site will then know the truth and the truth will then set them free.