Free will? really?

Cino · Aug 10, 2013

God gives us a choice in a lot of things. First, he gives us a choice to believe in Him and accept Him as our Lord and Saviour. It is our choice if we want to believe or not, (not talking about the faith that God gives us as that is a different thing). Many people can listen to sermons and go to church but still choose not to accept the Lord in their life and be Christians. We have the choice to yield or not when we are tempted. We can sin, or keep ourselves free from sin, with God's help. You can choose to obey the word of God, by helping those in need when you see someone needs help, by visiting the sick, giving to charities, etc.... we have all kinds of choices. God has given us the free will to choose, as God never forces anyone to serve Him. We must serve Him out of love, not out of force. God doesn't want that anyway. He wants a heart that CHOOSES to serve Him because they love him.

planksh · Aug 10, 2013

Heaven or Hell, who would choose Hell that believed in both? That's not a choice. That's not freedom. True believers have no "free will".

Sanashankar · Aug 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I know, u get upset, when u hear God has complete power over human beings...if i give u this verse

Mt 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mt 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Of course u will say animals does not have free will. Its talking abt sparrows. But you know what God has asked us to do

Ja 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Ja 4:14 Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Ja 4:15 For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

If the Lord "will". How hard is it to understand. Its man's arrogance that they say they have free will. You dont accept Jesus Chist, but God chooses you. What is their in our hand???
Did we ask God to create us? is there a free will in that? Did Adam asked God to create him, and put a heart in his body, which knows lust, love, hatred,jealousy, anger etc.......Why did not God create a man without all these. Why he created the tree of knowledge of Good and evil, and kept right in the middle of the garden, so that Adam and eve see it....He could have kept it somewhere they have no access to....

If man has free will, like u say, then my God will be sitting in the Heaven with full beard on his face, tired and sad, thinking about the nasty things that is happening in the world. He will be telling " i send my son Jesus to save the world, but nobody has actually changed???what will i do"

I don't see my God as such a pathetic looser. lets admit, the inventor who created the machines knows the machine very well. If the machine (adam/ human race) did not perform well then it is the mistake of the inventor who created it, not of the machine.

planksh · Aug 10, 2013

So did God create us for his entertainment?
Why let us see evil? So he could send some to Hell and laugh?

Sanashankar · Aug 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

What is calvanism????

SpiritofFire · Aug 10, 2013

planksh said:

So that we can LEARN to know and to choose and to cling onto good, and never let it go!

planksh · Aug 10, 2013

Yes I like to learn, and I like to be able to choose good. Does the Bible explain why God created man?

pickles · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

I cannot recall seeing free will anywhere, but dont quote me.

I do recall a scripture where God said before man are fire and water, he chooses.
Scripture also says that God does not give as the world does, I refrance this simply because...
From what I have read of the scriptures I see all as both.
Gods hand deciding and our will given t Him.
For only God can give and offer both.

God bless
pickles

Sanashankar · Aug 10, 2013

planksh said:

God is creating children in His very Own Spiritual Image.

God created us and put us into this world (hell) to learn so many things. I always ask How do we appreciate goodness if we don't know what bad is? God want us to experience everything now so wegrow and mature and be spiritual image of God.

Hb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.

Hb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Suffered in the days of his flesh. So there is a good reason behind, being in flesh. We learn obedience to God, not within a day...but eventually.

If you notice in Genesis

Gn 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him;

Here are the words from a Hebrew Interlinear: "uibra = and-he-is-creating / aleim - Elohim [God] / eadm ath = the-human / btzimu = in-image-of-him / btzim = in-image-of / aleim =
Elohim [God] / bra = he-creates / athu = him / zkr = male / unqbe = and-female / bra= he-creates / athm = them."

it is C-R-E-A-T-I-N-G not created in hebrew. See how it is translated correctly

"And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the image of the Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them" (Concordant Literal Old Testament).

He is not done with it. He is still in the process of changing us into his image. spiritual image. The life in this world is the way.

Abiding · Aug 10, 2013

Sanashankar said:

I know, u get upset, when u hear God has complete power over human beings...if i give u this verse

Mt 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mt 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Of course u will say animals does not have free will. Its talking abt sparrows. But you know what God has asked us to do

Ja 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Ja 4:14 Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Ja 4:15 For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

If the Lord "will". How hard is it to understand. Its man's arrogance that they say they have free will. You dont accept Jesus Chist, but God chooses you. What is their in our hand???
Did we ask God to create us? is there a free will in that? Did Adam asked God to create him, and put a heart in his body, which knows lust, love, hatred,jealousy, anger etc.......Why did not God create a man without all these. Why he created the tree of knowledge of Good and evil, and kept right in the middle of the garden, so that Adam and eve see it....He could have kept it somewhere they have no access to....

If man has free will, like u say, then my God will be sitting in the Heaven with full beard on his face, tired and sad, thinking about the nasty things that is happening in the world. He will be telling " i send my son Jesus to save the world, but nobody has actually changed???what will i do"

I don't see my God as such a pathetic looser. lets admit, the inventor who created the machines knows the machine very well. If the machine (adam/ human race) did not perform well then it is the mistake of the inventor who created it, not of the machine.

Actually i think its "mans arrogance" to say "its mans arrogance to say he has free will"
And mans arrogance to say Gods attitude to it would be clueless...just old cliches.
Have you heard of Noahs flood? Whats the dance to explain that?

Bryancampbell · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

To answer the OP question:

God made man in His Image, with the ability to be in His likeness, and gave man authority on life of the earth - Genesis 1:26

God then gave man instructions - Genesis 2:16-17 - with instructions and made in the image of God, that tells us there that man was given a mind to think with and free will to choose with. Otherwise He wouldn't have instructed us of anything if we were bounded by only one directional thought. He gave us choice, choice is free will.

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

ongoing forgiveness in having to ask as if not forgiven by God at the cross? is unbelief in God's taking away the sin of the world as John the Baptist was a witness to this even that was to take place and did
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When Chrsit went to the cross the forgiveness was and is for all that believe. He took it all at the cross.
There is no ongoing forgiveness after one receives the forgiveness from God that he did at the cross for all
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

By Christ's death we have the message of reconciliation
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
If we will receive this then we will quit from our sins and be by belief dead to sin and alive to God serving God in the Spirit as what is today the only way to serve God in Spirit and truth.

You find me anywhere in the New Testament, after the "DEATH" of Christ, anywhere the word says that we are to ask God for more forgivingness after we have received what Christ did come in the flesh to take away, and that we were born with a sin nature flesh.
1John is what is talked about what I just wrote, and when read on into Chapter 2 we see we are forgiven done past tense, 100% by Christ. Once one sees this believes God then they are saved and have moved on from death to life in Christ where no sin can or ever does occur

The problem is flesh of self does not want to die to self. And we are called to believe this death of self at the death of Christ, and the reason why is flesh is unredeemed and deceitful.
If this insidious self was from outside then it would not be hard to overcome. But because it is of flesh self insidious as it is, it is not possible for man to overcome, and is why Christ did for us, and that is what it is.

It seems that most are or rather would battle the flesh, themselves, instead of agree with God

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:2-4 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2 Corinthians 5:13-15 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2 Corinthians 5:15 and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

Free choice and free will are the same, both are free. I will to choose God and God has already willed for me to choose him.
Now you are saying I have no free will in this matter and separate it as free choice.
Go on divide and conquer, for this is what you are doing whether aware of it or not, that is not the issue here, the issue is you by this dividing are taking away God's unfathomable Love to all mankind and the power of the cross away.
I pray and know God still has it all under control in the midst of this perverse and wicked generation

God just love us all and is waiting for belief in God and God alone. To give God all the glory to God via the cross of Christ.
And we all have free will to believe God or not. And that is the Love, unfathomable from God to us all.
By belief and belief alone is one saved, and to believe or not believe is free will, and or free choice

And as I am writing I see what you are saying, I did not will this salvation from God to this world, God did that, and we are left with free choice to choose God's will in Christ or not
Thanks if this is what you meant Got it, God reveals

phil36 · Aug 10, 2013

Hi homeward,

I know what you have been saying.. and again yes I know we die to the cross and live in Christ.. we area already resurrected into the Kingdom..not yet fully (already - not yet)

But you have to have a strange reading of scripture to make it say that you are now sinless.

so basically what you are saying is that you do not sin? and if you do its not sin because you have died to the cross and now live in Christ.. so no need to repent because you are already forgiven...very strange.

I think you do not understand the difference between mans condition and mans state.

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

tribesman said:

Man when becomes aware of God's will and then being aware makes the choice to either be in God's will or in his own will and serve self, yet all will know and have made their conscious choice to whose will they will follow their own or
God's or even this world's will.
Yet no one will ever be or have a valid excuse when Judgment day is upon us all. For all will have made their free choice to either believe and follow God or they will have made the opposite which is not to follow God's will
Wow!!!!! this can get really tangled up
That I can't Spleak Splain, with my tongue all tangled up

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

planksh said:

Heaven with God, Hell without God, the creator of all, Christ's Father is what I speak here to be clear

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

planksh said:

actually we have made our free will choice, to be in the will of God and nothing more

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

planksh said:

we can't send anyone to hell, only by another's belief do people get cursed in the enemy of their own self, not being right with God. When God by the cross took care of this problem for us if we will believe God?

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

Has God redeemed you to sin more and more over and over? The only way one in Christ sins again is when that one has left Humility, so God sends:
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Do you not see to walk in the light as he is in the light, and that these things are written so that you might not sin against him. But if you do understand this, we have Christ as our one time sin offering and by this are forgiven from God to all the world.
No forgiveness without the shedding of Blood period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[h=3]1 John 2:1-6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [SUP]2[/SUP]and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

So do you believe God or not? make your choice, your will or God's will?
[h=3]Romans 6:1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

And see only if you are dead to flesh and this id one by belief in being co-crucified with Christ on the cross given to you by God in ones asking God for this, being tired of sin over and over again, not getting anywhere except in pride and boasting of self when one does as they think they are to do, and are humbled over and over again never coming to truth that Christ did it all for you, you and you, for the whole world

homwardbound · Aug 10, 2013

phil36 said:

Hi homeward,

I know what you have been saying.. and again yes I know we die to the cross and live in Christ.. we area already resurrected into the Kingdom..not yet fully (already - not yet)

But you have to have a strange reading of scripture to make it say that you are now sinless.

so basically what you are saying is that you do not sin? and if you do its not sin because you have died to the cross and now live in Christ.. so no need to repent because you are already forgiven...very strange.

I think you do not understand the difference between mans condition and mans state.

Are you sure you don't have your own agenda at hand here?

Free will? really?

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