Genesis 3:16 Bible Old Testament. Surah 4:34 (Quran)

[Amanuensis]

There is a lot written about how Jewish rabbis through the centuries approached interpretation of scriptures. It's almost a whole branch of Jewish theology. It would take a semester college class to digest the most important parts. They favored allegorical interpretations.
These allegorical interpretations had a way of expanding and multiplying according to the number of rabbis that wrote about them.

Modern Christian scholars use a hermeneutical approach that is based on a set of common sense rules and do not allegorize unless there is a clear indication that something should be allegory. Therefore Gen 3:16
16He said to the woman:

I will intensify your labor pains;
you will bear children with painful effort.
Your desire will be for your husband,
yet he will rule over you.​

Most likely would mean that labor pains in child birth was a result of the fall. That birth was not supposed to be that hard but sin caused a change in this regard. That her desire for her husband and him ruling over her, was that she would now need for him to provide for her for the most part that is how life is in the primitive wild and a woman would need the man to help her survive. The man would be stronger and really women were at their mercy for the most of human history. All part of the fall. These brief descriptions are not an establishing of the best order of things but of a result of the fall. It is what it is.

This is how things are going to be now that you disobeyed. It' aint a pretty sight.

3:15-17. I am sure a Jew who uses normal hermeneutics and not one taught by a school of Rabbis who specialized in making things mean whatever they wanted to would agree.

 

[Dino246]

5. Husbands would have authority over wives, and wives would need to submit to their own husband.

That isn't what it says, but it's a common misinterpretation.

It says, in the context of consequences for sin, that he will rule over 'you'. If you conclude that is a command, or a statement about God-given authority, then you must also believe that...

- men are only obeying God when they are in pain as they eat farm produce;
- unless there are thorns and thistles, that men are doing farming "wrong";
- men are only obeying God when they sweat as they eat;
- sinful men make appropriate authority figures.

The utter folly of such should lead you to realize you're interpreting the verse incorrectly. These are statements of certain consequence for sin, NOT commands. Sinful men WILL rule over women. Millions of testimonies of abuse (in all cultures!) testify to the truth of that terrible reality.

 

[JillianMarie]

That isn't what it says, but it's a common misinterpretation.

It says, in the context of consequences for sin, that he will rule over 'you'. If you conclude that is a command, or a statement about God-given authority, then you must also believe that...

- men are only obeying God when they are in pain as they eat farm produce;
- unless there are thorns and thistles, that men are doing farming "wrong";
- men are only obeying God when they sweat as they eat;
- sinful men make appropriate authority figures.

The utter folly of such should lead you to realize you're interpreting the verse incorrectly. These are statements of certain consequence for sin, NOT commands. Sinful men WILL rule over women. Millions of testimonies of abuse (in all cultures!) testify to the truth of that terrible reality.

I always try to read what people say about that scripture and keep learning more about it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think that people should overlook their differences and love each other

"Love" means so many things to different people it's difficult to pin down just looking at various interpretations of word.

I believe Truth to be something that is outside of self/society etc, Truth is in God alone, and He has defined love for us in all it's expressions.

We see love, according to God, in the Good Samaritan, in Jacobs devotion to the beautiful Rachel and more, all culminating in Jesus'love for the lost.

Jesus preached the Truth of God and went unappreciated and even hated for it. He bucked the status quo at every turn and for it went to his death after only 3-1/2 years of speaking and teaching, he so upset the people of his day they served him up to Rome to slaughter...

That was the height of love. Speaking the Truth of God to those who most need to hear the message, even though it was the last thing on earth they wanted to hear.

Love may not make it's recipients happy, it's more likely to offend and upend than it's to make people feel better. But it's healing pain in the end.

It was the man who is now my husband that shared the Gospel with me. And I was offended at times by the message. At times confused and others just fighting mad... I only kept going back for more because it was something I couldn't let go, something I had to figure out.. inexplicable.

But in the end it was the very best thing that ever happened to me... and I don't regret any of it, because that was love, even if it didn't feel so loving to my soul which was bound back then.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm really tired so I'm off to bed. I'll be back in the morning to speak with you further. God bless you all

 

[Katia]

What makes you give up ?

That is too private to talk about.

 

[soberxp]

That is too private to talk about.

Jesus is indeed our Savior.
But I have my own view of the Quran, which is different from most American Christians.
And my view of the Quran is different from that of most Muslims.

 

[Katia]

Jesus is indeed our Savior.
But I have my own view of the Quran, which is different from most American Christians.
And my view of the Quran is different from that of most Muslims.

I am no Imam or Pastor. I feel there are important areas of commonality in both belief systems. My understanding of Jesus (Isa PBUH) in Islam is that since God (Allah SWT) is so high he can not bear children, so Jesus can not be his son. And, there are places in the Bible where he is called "The Son of God". Over the years that has led to so much bloodshed. I am not sure but I think that in Saudi Arabia and some other places saying that will lead to your decapitation. Sad.

 

[soberxp]

I am no Imam or Pastor. I feel there are important areas of commonality in both belief systems. My understanding of Jesus (Isa PBUH) in Islam is that since God (Allah SWT) is so high he can not bear children, so Jesus can not be his son. And, there are places in the Bible where he is called "The Son of God". Over the years that has led to so much bloodshed. I am not sure but I think that in Saudi Arabia and some other places saying that will lead to your decapitation. Sad.

This is actually the strangest part. The Quran clearly recognizes Christians, and many places in the Quran shows that they are to help the Israelites correctly believe in the Lord. Therefore, since Quran recognize Christians, why do they say that God has no son

 

[Hazelelponi]

I am no Imam or Pastor. I feel there are important areas of commonality in both belief systems. My understanding of Jesus (Isa PBUH) in Islam is that since God (Allah SWT) is so high he can not bear children, so Jesus can not be his son. And, there are places in the Bible where he is called "The Son of God". Over the years that has led to so much bloodshed. I am not sure but I think that in Saudi Arabia and some other places saying that will lead to your decapitation. Sad.

There are areas of commonality, but those areas are skin deep at best.

In understanding salvation we see that the resurrection of Christ is so central to the Christian faith that literally without the resurrection there is no salvation (at all) and we would all still be under the mosaic law. (1 Corinthians 15:14)

It's the thing the Muslim faith so vehemently denies. It becomes, as such, the antithesis of the Christian faith.

Only one can be true. Both cannot hold true at the same time. I cannot say this strongly enough.

This isn't to be offensive to anyone, but the two groups hold exactly opposite beliefs. If you believe there's a God and a Truth that He in all mercy gave to mankind, then you have to figure out which one is the truth and which one the lie. Because being that only one is Truth and the other it's antithesis, then there is one who is lying and those following it will not be saved on the Day of Judgement.

To look at it another way, or another angle:

In Jewish and Christian Scripture both, God's names are continually descriptive of His being. He wasn't a being born, had no parents etc, and had no name. Only descriptions of Himself. He is the I Am, the One who is existent, (as opposed to we who are finite). God's names describe what God is, and who He is in relation to us so that we may grasp who He is in some small way.

God chose for Himself a name, The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. (Exodus 3:6) This is perfectly descriptive of the God Jews and Christians both worship. We see dozens of usages in Scripture of this being God's name - the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.

It is this God that Muslims do not worship. They claim to worship the God of Abraham, but in no way shape or form do they worship the God who describes Himself as the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.

So we see, while looking only to the surface it seems all happy happy joy joy with minor differences... But those differences are so major it's antithetical of one another.

Christians neither fear nor hate Muslims, on the contrary they, out of a spirit of Christian love, only hope to see them saved. And seeking out opportunities for real, honest and open discussion, while it may seem offensive to the hearer, has only their best in mind. And this is love.

 

[PennEd]

I am no Imam or Pastor. I feel there are important areas of commonality in both belief systems. My understanding of Jesus (Isa PBUH) in Islam is that since God (Allah SWT) is so high he can not bear children, so Jesus can not be his son. And, there are places in the Bible where he is called "The Son of God". Over the years that has led to so much bloodshed. I am not sure but I think that in Saudi Arabia and some other places saying that will lead to your decapitation. Sad.

Do you believe Jesus is God come in the flesh?

 

[Nehemiah6]

That isn't what it says, but it's a common misinterpretation.

That is EXACTLY what is says and the New Testament repeats that. So there is no need to contradict the Bible. Now if you don't like it you know whom you can complain to.

 

[Katia]

This is actually the strangest part. The Quran clearly recognizes Christians, and many places in the Quran shows that they are to help the Israelites correctly believe in the Lord. Therefore, since Quran recognize Christians, why do they say that God has no son

It is a hard thing and I won't attempt to force them.

 

[Katia]

Do you believe Jesus is God come in the flesh?

In the Bible:
Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is My ...
https://biblehub.com › matthew



And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” ... And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who ...
‎Matthew 3:17 KJV

 

[Katia]

Sorry, I meant Genesis 3:16. I would not expect Jews to believe John 3:16.

In 2001, I toured Israel for a week and saw Christians, Jews, and Muslims (Both Sunni and Shia). It was very interesting and I wanted to find a way to stay there. I was sad that I could not.

 

[PennEd]

In the Bible:
Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is My ...
https://biblehub.com › matthew



And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” ... And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who ...
‎Matthew 3:17 KJV

Do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[Deuteronomy]

.

 

[Dino246]

That is EXACTLY what is says and the New Testament repeats that. So there is no need to contradict the Bible. Now if you don't like it you know whom you can complain to.

Here is your earlier claim:

"5. Husbands would have authority over wives, and wives would need to submit to their own husband. "

Here is what God says in Genesis 3:16: "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

God said nothing about giving authority to men or requiring submission from women in that verse, so no, that is definitely NOT "exactly" what it says. You are the one contradicting Scripture. What it says is "he (the man) will rule over you". "Will" is not a statement of extended authority at all. It is a statement of certainty. Ungodly men WILL rule over their wives; there is no "must" or "should" in there. Your interpretation merely confirms the truth of God's statement.

Again, in order to be consistent, you must believe that men are disobedient to the Scripture if they are not sweating and in pain when eating or working to earn a living. I'm sure you don't. Maybe you should ask yourself why.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Here is your earlier claim:

"5. Husbands would have authority over wives, and wives would need to submit to their own husband. "

Here is what God says in Genesis 3:16: "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

God said nothing about giving authority to men or requiring submission from women in that verse, so no, that is definitely NOT "exactly" what it says. You are the one contradicting Scripture. What it says is "he (the man) will rule over you". "Will" is not a statement of extended authority at all. It is a statement of certainty. Ungodly men WILL rule over their wives; there is no "must" or "should" in there. Your interpretation merely confirms the truth of God's statement.

Again, in order to be consistent, you must believe that men are disobedient to the Scripture if they are not sweating and in pain when eating or working to earn a living. I'm sure you don't. Maybe you should ask yourself why.

What do you believe words like submission and rule mean?

Submission means the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.

Rule means (noun) control of or dominion over an area or people. And (verb) exercise ultimate power or authority over.


The only real difference I see between the posters own words and the exact words of the Bible is sin. If God grants someone authority over you and you refuse to submit to that authority then have you not sinned? .

It would be expected of a woman professing faith in Christ to naturally submit to her husband's God given authority the same as it's naturally expected of the Christian man to not abuse that authority.

 

[Deuteronomy]

And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” ... And a voice from heaven said, “This is my dearly loved Son, who ...‎Matthew 3:17 KJV

Hello Katia, the church formulated the doctrine of the Trinity to circumscribe and safeguard the Biblical truth (or better, "mystery") concerning the nature of God/of the Godhead, not explain it to us, because that is simply beyond any of us (at least while we remain in this state anyway, as finite beings).

The Trinity states that God is one Divine "Being" who has and who always will exist (IOW, from everlasting to everlasting) as three Divine "Persons", and the evidence for our understanding that this is the truth (about Him/about of His true nature) begins in the opening chapter Genesis.

Genesis 1​

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”​

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.​

I know that you are interested to understand what the Jews thought of Genesis 3:16, so you may also find it interesting to read what they thought when the Lord Jesus referred to God the Father as "His" Father. For instance,

John 10​

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;​

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.​

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.​

30 I and the Father are one.”​

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.​

32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”​

33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”​

The Lord Jesus Christ also refers to Himself (a couple of chapters earlier in John's Gospel) not only as God's Son, but as God Himself (when He said to the Jews, "truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM").

As I'm sure you already know, Muslims teach that the Lord Jesus Christ was both a great teacher, as well one of the greatest prophets of Islam (both "the penultimate prophet and messenger of God, and the Messiah"). But, how can this possibly be true of Him since He claimed to be God's very Son (equal with the Almighty), and thereby claiming to be God Himself (facts that the Jews understood clearly and tried to stone Him for more than once, in point of fact).

What great teacher or prophet would do such a thing!!? Unless, of course, He ~is~ who He claims to be!!

God bless you as you seek to find Him and what the truth about Him really is

~Deut

John 8​

54 Jesus said [to the Jews], “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’;​

55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.​

56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”​

57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”​

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”​

59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.​

​