God has future animal sacrifices planned

zone · Dec 2, 2013

zone's chart?
LOL
what are you asking me for?

Hoff:

Daniel 9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto (until) [Strong’s Hebrew 5704 - `ad] the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...

Strong’s Hebrew 5704 - `ad
properly, the same as '`ad' (5703) (used as a preposition, adverb or conjunction; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with):--against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for(-asmuch as), (hither-)to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.

Daniel 9:26
And after [Strong’s Hebrew 310] threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...

Hebrew 310, Strong’s - 'achar
from Hebrew 309 ('achar); probably the hind part; generally used as an adverb or conjunction, after (in various senses) :- after (that, -ward), again, at, away from, back (from, -side), behind, beside, by, follow (after, -ing), forasmuch, from, hereafter, hinder end, + out (over) live, + persecute, posterity, pursuing, remnant, seeing, since, thence [-forth], when, with.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14.........................61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69 (483 years): Messiah appears

AFTER week 69 (what happens after week 69 in a prophecy about 70 weeks........week 70 - right)?

AFTER week 69 shall Messiah be cut off (executed)...in WEEK 70

Hoffco said:

there is no future 7 years.
that was week 70. done.

thank God! MESSIAH CAME

Hoffco said:

maybe you should think about Rev 20.
read it very carefully. look for a clue in it.

Elin · Dec 2, 2013

john832 said:

Baloney.

No Christian has been perfect for the last 2,000 years, and we haven't offered animal sacrifices to point to the sacrifice of Christ offererd 2,000 years ago.

What's the difference?

unclefester · Dec 3, 2013

Musings. To observe on some of these threads what a portion of supposed born again believers teach and adhere to ... right down to the re-instituting of animal sacrifices while the perfect Lamb of God Himself is bodily present no less, is beyond disturbing. The mere suggestion of it nauseates me to the uttermost and denigrates the single greatest act of love and mercy shown mankind in Christ's sacrifice of Himself on the cross for our sins. Is it to be a "reminder or remembrance" of Christ's crucifixion and suffering you or mankind will need and/or seek ? I have a suggestion for you. Look upon the nail holes in his hands and feet. Place your hand thru His side where a spear was once thrust. Touch and feel His head where a crown of thorns was once embedded while onlookers scorned and mocked God's most precious and Holy Son. Gaze upon His back where the lashes ripped and shred the flesh from His body. Or simply wash the spit of those decrepit self-righteous accusers from His face. But NEVER believe that the sacrifice of ANY animal, however "perfect" it's shape or form can even remotely serve as a reminder or remembrance of Christ's so great a sacrifice of Himself. Rather, look in the mirror ... and see one deserving of death mercifully rescued and saved from his/her just reward for their deeds ... because God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. And that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And lastly ; Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth. Forsake her not and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

2Thewaters · Dec 3, 2013

Sacrificing animals is denying the sacrifice of christ who died for us once for eternity

Animal sacrifice is fanatacism and from the enemy.

2Thewaters · Dec 3, 2013

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

zone · Dec 3, 2013

1still_waters said:

Daniel 7
13"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 14"And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Psalm 45:6
Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

Psalm 110:2
The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, "Rule in the midst of your enemies!"

BradC · Dec 3, 2013

zone said:

peaceful....i don't know what to say

if you need to believe that ezekiel's temple is a literal future temple; that God is looking forward to, and leading us to reinsituted animal sacrifices and mosiac something; that Israel didn't receive all the good things the Lord promised (per Joshua, then under David and even Solomon...) - finding it's INTENDED GLORIOUS REALITY (and not shadow-type good things) in Jesus CHRIST THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, i can't say much.

i know you use the Bullinger Bible. that is hyper-dispensationalism.

which is very difficult to come out of.
i wish you would put it away. it's not good.

i could help if you decide you would like try.
i hope you'll consider it.

Hyper Dispensationalism

The distinctive doctrines of dispensationalism have been most consistently taught by a movement variously identified as Hyperdispensationalism, Ultradispensationalism, Consistent dispensationalism or Bullingerism. The movement had its origin in the teaching of Ethelbert W. Bullinger. Bullinger was a descendant of Heinrich Bullinger, the successor of Zwingli. Bullinger’s teaching separated Israel and the church even more radically than Darby or Scofield, placing the beginning of the church with the imprisonment of Paul in Rome.There was no beginning of a church on that day of Pentecost. 35

Bullinger’s schemes show the weaknesses in traditional dispensational interpretation, and set out to solve them with consistent dispensational application. Bullinger was one of the first to admit that the Old Testament saints were to arise at the end of the tribulation, and came up with a program of multiple resurrections. Most dispensationalists see the gospel of Matthew as a Jewish book with the Jews in mind in the apocalyptic chapters 24 & 25, yet wish to preserve the Great Commission as applicable to the church. Consistent dispensationalists assign the Commission to a future Jewish remnant church.

Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult – Appendix & Glossary by Gospel Plow
Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult – Appendix & Glossary by Gospel Plow

and so on.
i'd be far more concerned about Bullingerism than asking about particular borders under Joshua compared to the State of Israel's plans for Greater Israel (same foundation).
i care about you peaceful.
love zone.

You won't answer her question because you do not want to deal with her request nor with the twelve tribes that she has brought up, unless you do in some abstract way. You won't deal with it because you can't without unraveling what you believe. It is a stick in the side of your neck and if you pull it out you will bleed to death (so to speak). The 1000 reign of Christ on the throne of David is a real and as promising as the sun coming up each morning (because the earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun). A big fat DUH on that!!!!!!!!... and a big Homer Simpson 'DOH' on a planned holigram of Christ coming in the clouds of the air.

peacefulbeliever · Dec 3, 2013

zone said:

zone: I DON'T USE THE BULLINGER BIBLE!

I can find as many "sites" for dispensation as you can find "anti" dispensation. The fact remains "what does scripture teach?" Dispensationalism doesn't in any way negate what has been accomplished by and through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I see that distribution of land as not fulfilled and I am really not that concerned about it. I was just wanting to see a map with the new distribution to the twelve tribes (Israel) and there should be one if that has been fulfilled - that simple. I am not concerned at all regarding my salvation because I don't see this issue of dispensation as a determent of my salvation. I thank you zone for caring; I care for you also. Love, patience

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

Elin said:

Elin, you are absolutely right, I mis worded my question. It should have said "did God ever take pleasure in the actual killing of animals that were sacraficed?". Sorry about that. As for the rest of what you say, I have stated that in another post, and agree. Those that are so opposed to that being done in the future kingdom, have focused on the killing of animals aspect of sacrificing. The Bible says what it says, and if there is to be animal sacraficing in the future kingdom, for what ever reason, it is not because God takes pleasure in killing animals.

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

zone said:

Zone, if the guy in the picture is the Jesus you believe in, do yourself a favor and google "Serapas".

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

zone said:

Zone, did you not realize that Jesus Christ is God's Tabernacle with man? Scripture, in a round about way, shows that he was born during the feast of Tabernacles - thus fulfilling that with his life and the words he left us, just like his death fulfilled the Passover sacrafice. As far as the journey to Jerusalem by all nations, that also became Spiritual city through the eternal spirit given by Jesus Christ(Jn.4,21-24), and notice Deut.12.21-22 "if the place which the Lord thy God hath chosen to put HIS NAME THERE be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the Lord hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike".

If you will notice that Zech.14.15-18 aligns with Ecc.3.18-20, the plague in reference is physical death. The rain, according to Deut.32.1-3, Hos.6.3 and Isa.55.10-11, is the word of God. That agrees with Jn.1.1-14, the word that was God became flesh and Jn.17.8, gave us words, Jn.6.63 that are spirit and life, Jn.6.48-58, Jas.1.21, to eat and drink/engraft to the saving of our soul. The lack of rain resulting in death is redundant.

Hashem Tzidkeniu

Elin · Dec 3, 2013

BradC said:

You won't answer her question because you do not want to deal with her request nor with the twelve tribes that she has brought up, unless you do in some abstract way. You won't deal with it because you can't without unraveling what you believe. It is a stick in the side of your neck and if you pull it out you will bleed to death (so to speak). The 1000 reign of Christ on the throne of David is a real and as promising as the sun coming up each morning (because the earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun).

Check out this:

002 Dr Robert Sungenis 'Geocentrism / Geocentric Cosmology' 8/11/2013 - YouTube

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

Brother_Don said:

Brother_Don, Concerning Isa.11.6-9, a deeper look might be in order; Matt.10.61, Jesus sends us forth as "sheep among wolves"; Matt.12.34 refers to an evil generation as "vipers", Matt.25.33 refer to seperating "the sheep from the goats", Jer.13.23 refer to the "leopard" that can't change it's spots, Dan.7.5 & Rev.13.2 refer to a "bear", ect.ect.ect.

If the Bible says there will be animal sacrafices in the eternal kigdom, then it is not our call. But as far as Ez. 45.17 through Ez. 46.24 refering to animal sacraficing, I see that from Ez.47.1 on, where the river of life flows, it is not mentioned again, so I think it requires more careful and prayerful consideration, because Isa.66.3 affirms, "He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb as if he cut off a dog's neck, he that offereth an oblation as if he offered swine's blood, he that burneth incense as if he blessed an idol--".

Hashem Tzidkeinu

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

zone said:

let's see:

Why I Am Not A Dispensationalist

Animal Sacrifices in the Millennium?

One of the most embarrassing aspects of Dispensationalism is their insistence that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium. Most Dispensationalists have no idea that this is part of their system. The Progressive Dispensationalists have mostly abandoned this element. However, the hard-core Dispensationalists still hold to it.

If you recall, Dispensationalists believe that after his second coming, Jesus will reign on the earth for exactly one thousand years. This thousand-year period is often called the Millennium, taken from the Latin phrase "thousand years," found in Revelation 20.

Whereas all Premillennialists believe in a future Millennium on earth, Dispensationalists are unique in that they believe that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, according to the vision given in Ezekiel 40-48. Herein lies the problem.

The vision in Ezekiel 40-48 includes animal sacrifices. Because Dispensationalists are committed to a literal, future fulfillment of Ezekiel 40-48, Dispensationalists believe that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium.

Some Dispensationalists have tried to skirt the issue by arguing that the animal sacrifices are of a memorial nature. Thus, the animal sacrifices are simply pointing back to the death of Christ, in a similar way that the Lord's Supper points back to Christ.

However, the text of Ezekiel 40-48 belies this claim. These are not mere memorial animal sacrifices. Fourteen times, the text calls for a "sin offering" (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25; 44:27, 29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20).

Leviticus describes the sin offering as "making atonement" (Leviticus 4:20, 26, 31, 35, etc.). These are animal sacrifices to atone for sin.

dispensationalist.blogspot.ca

.......

Fourteen times, the text calls for a "sin offering"
Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25; 44:27, 29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20

remember, we can not violate a literal interpretation of Ezekiel.

now we know for certain (if we have actually checked) that a literal interpretation of Ezekiel says the sacrifices are FOR SIN.

so, i guess i'm on pretty safe ground NOW, by claiming that:

Re: God has future animal sacrifices planned

1) that are to make atonement for SIN
2) He will take pleasure in them
3) this is a fact, and lies ahead in the Coming Kingdom, which is primarily about Israel.

GOOD SO FAR?

Zone, as I pointed out to Brother_Don, from Ez.47.1 on, where the river of life flows, animal sacrafice is not mentioned again. Perhaps, you are missing the period of time that is covered, as Jesus IS the river of life(Luke 1.78, Jn.4.14, 7.38, 15.3, Eph.5.26, Rev.22.17).

Hashem Tzidkeinu

zone · Dec 3, 2013

peacefulbeliever said:

hmm...i thought we determined that you relied on Bullinger

my apologies.
perhaps we just discussed the match in theologies.

peacefulbeliever said:

it does though.
completely.

peacefulbeliever said:

so i`m sorry, hours have passed.
are you saying you`re looking for a past literal fulfillment of the distribution...from ezekiel

because what are you going to do with this:

Joshua 13
The Land Yet to Be Conquered
The Land Divided East of the Jordan
An Allotment for the Tribe of Levi
The Land Given to the Tribe of Reuben
The Land Given to the Tribe of Gad
The Land Given to the Half-Tribe of Manasseh
Joshua 13 NLT - click

Joshua 14
The Land Divided West of the Jordan
Caleb Requests His Land
Joshua 14 NLT - click

Joshua 15
The Land Given to the Tribe of Judah
The Land Given to Caleb
The Towns Allotted to Judah
Joshua 15 NLT - click

Joshua 16
The Land Given to Ephraim and West Manasseh
The Land Given to Ephraim
Joshua 16 NLT - click

Joshua 17
The Land Given to West Manasseh
Joshua 17 NLT - click

Joshua 18
The Allotments of the Remaining Land
1Now that the land was under Israelite control, the entire community of Israel gathered at Shiloh and set up the Tabernacle.a 2But there remained seven tribes who had not yet been allotted their grants of land.

3Then Joshua asked them, “How long are you going to wait before taking possession of the remaining land the LORD, the God of your ancestors, has given to you? 4Select three men from each tribe, and I will send them out to explore the land and map it out. They will then return to me with a written report of their proposed divisions of their new homeland. 5Let them divide the land into seven sections, excluding Judah’s territory in the south and Joseph’s territory in the north. 6And when you record the seven divisions of the land and bring them to me, I will cast sacred lots in the presence of the LORD our God to assign land to each tribe.

7“The Levites, however, will not receive any allotment of land. Their role as priests of the LORD is their allotment. And the tribes of Gad, Reuben, and the half-tribe of Manasseh won’t receive any more land, for they have already received their grant of land, which Moses, the servant of the LORD, gave them on the east side of the Jordan River.”

8As the men started on their way to map out the land, Joshua commanded them, “Go and explore the land and write a description of it. Then return to me, and I will assign the land to the tribes by casting sacred lots here in the presence of the LORD at Shiloh.” 9The men did as they were told and mapped the entire territory into seven sections, listing the towns in each section. They made a written record and then returned to Joshua in the camp at Shiloh. 10And there at Shiloh, Joshua cast sacred lots in the presence of the LORD to determine which tribe should have each section.

The Land Given to Benjamin
The Towns Given to Benjamin
Joshua 18 NLT - click

Joshua 19
The Land Given to Simeon
The Land Given to Zebulun
The Land Given to Issachar
The Land Given to Asher
The Land Given to Naphtali
The Land Given to Dan
The Land Given to Joshua

49After all the land was divided among the tribes, the Israelites gave a piece of land to Joshua as his allocation. 50For the LORD had said he could have any town he wanted. He chose Timnath-serah in the hill country of Ephraim. He rebuilt the town and lived there.

51These are the territories that Eleazar the priest, Joshua son of Nun, and the tribal leaders allocated as grants of land to the tribes of Israel by casting sacred lots in the presence of the LORD at the entrance of the Tabernaclef at Shiloh. So the division of the land was completed.
Joshua 19 NLT - click

Joshua 20
The Cities of Refuge
7The following cities were designated as cities of refuge: Kedesh of Galilee, in the hill country of Naphtali; Shechem, in the hill country of Ephraim; and Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron), in the hill country of Judah. 8On the east side of the Jordan River, across from Jericho, the following cities were designated: Bezer, in the wilderness plain of the tribe of Reuben; Ramoth in Gilead, in the territory of the tribe of Gad; and Golan in Bashan, in the land of the tribe of Manasseh.
Joshua 20 NLT - click

the FULL PROMISE INCLUDED SIX CITIES OF REFUGE....they got them

Joshua 21
The Towns Given to the Levites

43So the LORD gave to Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors,

and they took possession of it and settled there.

44And the LORD gave them rest on every side, just as he had solemnly promised their ancestors.

None of their enemies could stand against them, for the LORD helped them conquer all their enemies.

45Not a single one of all the good promises the LORD had given to the family of Israel was left unfulfilled; everything he had spoken came true.

Joshua 21 NLT - click

Joshua 22
The Eastern Tribes Return Home

BUT...HERE WE GO:

The Eastern Tribes Build an Altar
Joshua 22 NLT - click

Joshua 23
Joshua’s Final Words to Israel
1The years passed, and the LORD had given the people of Israel rest from all their enemies. Joshua, who was now very old, 2called together all the elders, leaders, judges, and officers of Israel.

He said to them, “I am now a very old man. 3You have seen everything the LORD your God has done for you during my lifetime. The LORD your God has fought for you against your enemies.

4I have allotted to you as your homeland all the land of the nations yet unconquered, as well as the land of those we have already conquered—from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Seaa in the west. 5This land will be yours, for the LORD your God will himself drive out all the people living there now. You will take possession of their land, just as the LORD your God promised you.

6“So be very careful to follow everything Moses wrote in the Book of Instruction. Do not deviate from it, turning either to the right or to the left. 7Make sure you do not associate with the other people still remaining in the land. Do not even mention the names of their gods, much less swear by them or serve them or worship them. 8Rather, cling tightly to the LORD your God as you have done until now.

9“For the LORD has driven out great and powerful nations for you, and no one has yet been able to defeat you. 10Each one of you will put to flight a thousand of the enemy, for the LORD your God fights for you, just as he has promised. 11So be very careful to love the LORD your God.

12“But if you turn away from him and cling to the customs of the survivors of these nations remaining among you, and if you intermarry with them, 13then know for certain that the LORD your God will no longer drive them out of your land. Instead, they will be a snare and a trap to you, a whip for your backs and thorny brambles in your eyes, and you will vanish from this good land the LORD your God has given you.

14“Soon I will die, going the way of everything on earth.

Deep in your hearts you know that every promise of the LORD your God has come true. Not a single one has failed!

15But as surely as the LORD your God has given you the good things he promised, he will also bring disaster on you if you disobey him. He will completely destroy you from this good land he has given you. 16If you break the covenant of the LORD your God by worshiping and serving other gods, his anger will burn against you, and you will quickly vanish from the good land he has given you.”
Joshua 22 NLT - click

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

PLEASE REWRITE THIS TO SAY GOD DID NOT GIVE THEM EVERY SINGLE THING HE PROMISED THEM ACCORDING THE PROMISE HE GAVE THEIR ANCESTORS.

you cant because He DID.

zone · Dec 3, 2013

morninglory said:

yes thanks.
most of my early posts were intended to provoke thought - concerning the blasphemy of claiming God has not fulfilled His promises...and worse...that he will resume sacrificing animals.

everything is fulfilled in CHRIST.

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

jimmydiggs said:

Nice poem Jimmy

Elin · Dec 3, 2013

morninglory said:

Animal sacrifices in eternity?

IF?

"By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever (that's eternity!) those who are being made holy."

What would animal sacrifices be for?

Gads!

Just what does a doctrine have to say before one knows it is false?

And here you have where uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles leads.

Elin · Dec 3, 2013

morninglory said:

It's a Christian hymn.

morninglory · Dec 3, 2013

john832 said:

This is all well said with one exception; The first Adam WAS an eternal being, but then he sinned. Don't forget God's day is a thousand years, so Adam and Eve did die in day they ate of the tree of knowledge. That is how and why Jesus is the second Adam that did not sin, and showed us his eternal existance by dying when he didn't have to and then coming back to life(Jn.10.17-18, Luke 24.39). He was more than the eternal sacrafice, he left us words that are the quickening spirit of life - once engafted(Jn.6.63, Jas.1.21). Like he said in Jn.13.33-36, "where I go, thou can not follow me now, but thou shall follow me aftewards". Those words would have to be available to us before we COULD engraft them,

Heb.2.9, 9.27(Jn.9.39, Dan.7.6, Jn.12.48), Heb.10-11-12, 1 Cor.15.26, Rom.16.20(1 Cor.4.9). Jn.14.12 Jesus promises us that we would be able to do greater works than he did - because he went to the Father, there is no way that can happen without us being changed into his likeness, which was eternal before he died in our place. Friend, If Jesus died the once appointed unto death for every man, and we die any other kind of death, how many deaths is that? What death is it that the overcomers will not be touched by? Eph.5.14 "wherefore he sayeth, awake thou that sleepest and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light". Is that written to those in the graves, or those who read it? Jude 12 with Jer.51.39 some will sleep a perpetual sleep and NOT awake.

Hashem Tzidkeinu

God has future animal sacrifices planned

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