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Clearly you've got issues......... Bro 
10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
It blows my mind how dishonest people are when handling scripture.
I agree...this doctrine that God chooses people to hell on purpose violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and violates the nature and character of our loving Father. God hates everything that destroys those who He loves dearly. God hates the sin that is destroying people and deceiving them but He loves the people themselves.
We have a free will to choose Christ when we hear the message of Him.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Here Paul shows that God is the Savior of all men - especially of believers ( Why believers? because they chose to believe on Christ and received the forgiveness of sins - that is the gospel message to people.)
1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
D
And this is why no disagreement with you is ever resolved. You see only what you want to see, and play the passive (victim) while being aggressive (smug, haughty, etc.) to others.
A. How do you know you haven't been hoodwinked by an open theist if you don't even know what an open theist is?
B. You were hoodwinked because you saw absolutely nothing wrong with "universalism" as a defense!
C. Universalism has quite a bit to do with open theism.
And your response to all this is like a pitbull. You clamp down on an ankle, never to remove your teeth until you wear a person down. THEN you claim victory in receiving the final word without ever noticing you simply won't listen to other people's words.
THAT is passive-aggressive.
A. How do you know you haven't been hoodwinked by an open theist if you don't even know what an open theist is?
B. You were hoodwinked because you saw absolutely nothing wrong with "universalism" as a defense!
C. Universalism has quite a bit to do with open theism.
And your response to all this is like a pitbull. You clamp down on an ankle, never to remove your teeth until you wear a person down. THEN you claim victory in receiving the final word without ever noticing you simply won't listen to other people's words.
THAT is passive-aggressive.
You know what, its good to actually listen to the opponent what he is saying.
Nobody says that you will go to hell no matter what you do or that you will go to heaven, no matter what you do. Our work is need for the hell and for the heaven too.
Bible, the first church, Augustin, protestantism and most of Calvinists will tell you that, people going to hell are righteously condemned because of their evil deeds and that people going to heaven must have faith that produces good works.
So why are you still fighting against something that nobody claims?
People are not fighting against the fact that there is a place for those that reject Christ. What they are fighting against is the notion that God chooses those people on purpose to be rejecting Him.
It is anti-the gospel and really violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and violates the nature and character of God.
God doesn't arbitrarily choose some for hell and some for heaven - they chose that themselves. Salvation is open for all. God so loved the world - that He gave.
The gospel is simple. He loved, He gave, we believed, we live.
People are free to believe whatever they want but this false doctrine of God sends you to hell on purpose because He didn't choose you beforehand is not the gospel.
It is anti-the gospel and really violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place and violates the nature and character of God.
God doesn't arbitrarily choose some for hell and some for heaven - they chose that themselves. Salvation is open for all. God so loved the world - that He gave.
The gospel is simple. He loved, He gave, we believed, we live.
People are free to believe whatever they want but this false doctrine of God sends you to hell on purpose because He didn't choose you beforehand is not the gospel.
I am going to start with an assumption.
To not be in communion with God is sin.
Sin is an action that brings death, and to be out of fellowship with God is death.
We are born in this state.
It is possible to assume a state of mind and being that rejects God and just holds
on to whatever you have got, without any particular care or desire to value it.
Esau appears to not be that bothered to be the first born or to fight for things.
Though Jacob was always looking to promote his position, he understood the idea
of desire and using what he had.
Now God already declares what He loves and desires, so those who will never walk
in His ways are dooming themselves to destruction. The emnity starts before the
beginning to time to the end, and some will never change their path.
Now you could say everyone freely chooses and equally they have chosen not to
shift. What I have become very aware of people who go to church, know all the
theology can still miss the message completely.
To not be in communion with God is sin.
Sin is an action that brings death, and to be out of fellowship with God is death.
We are born in this state.
It is possible to assume a state of mind and being that rejects God and just holds
on to whatever you have got, without any particular care or desire to value it.
Esau appears to not be that bothered to be the first born or to fight for things.
Though Jacob was always looking to promote his position, he understood the idea
of desire and using what he had.
Now God already declares what He loves and desires, so those who will never walk
in His ways are dooming themselves to destruction. The emnity starts before the
beginning to time to the end, and some will never change their path.
Now you could say everyone freely chooses and equally they have chosen not to
shift. What I have become very aware of people who go to church, know all the
theology can still miss the message completely.