Yeah there's no better way to discuss things than pasting verse after verse or linking to websites.
Where is the art of conversation? Lol
Well i posted a link because it is only logical to think that not everyone will want to hear what i have to say on the subject and they can choose to click on the link if they so choose to or ignore it. But in light of your comment here. i will now post my part of the conversation to this topic in its entirety.
What is the meaning of Life? Why are we here? Believe it or not, Scriptures reveals this mystery to us and it all points to one conclusion. We are here to be TESTED, and Judgment Day will determine if we passed or if we failed, if we are Saved or doomed, if we will have everlasting Life or everlasting punishment.
To fully understand this, let us start from the beginning. NOT the beginning of the Earth and human life. But to the beginning why humans would need to be created in the first place.
Before the Earth was even thought of, or even the ideal of humans. There was Heaven. And in Heaven, there were a multitude of spirit beings, maybe billions upon trillions or a hundred trillion spirit being in Heaven. There was a government in Heaven. The Father was there, the Son was there and the Holy Ghost was there. After that you have Arch Angels, then Cherubim, and yet others, then others. We know not what the rest of the chain of command was in Heaven. Nor is it relevant for us to know such information. In Heaven they had a Temple, We know this because Rev 11:19 says “and the Temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His Temple the Ark of His Testament .. .. .. .. .. .
This is the Same Temple that Moses was instructed to copy for a pattern of the Temple that was built on the Earth (see Heb 8:1-5 )
So then, Heaven has always had a Temple, and that Temple is built on land with trees that are Tree of life producing fruits every month, and there is an atmosphere there where the Temple is, with clouds and a sky as well.
Far too many people have a misconception what Heaven is like, they think a Spiritual realm, a place that everyone are ghosts, not real, not physical. They think of Heaven as a place, not for the physical, but for the spiritual. That Angels are everywhere floating and flying about in the sky. Heaven is not like that at all. It is very much like the Earth, but what is in the Earth is only 1/12th what actually is in Heaven, for example, if there are 1,000 different kinds of roses, there are 12,000 different kinds of roses in Heaven. For example our fruit trees only produce one type of fruit, in Heaven the fruit bearing trees produce 12 different fruits on each tree (Rev 22:2)
In Heaven, there are dwelling places for each of the inhabitants, there are lands, and rivers of water, and lakes, they go to where the Temple is to worship and praise God, they eat and drink, and celebrate feast days, whatever the Lord had established for the inhabitants to celebrate, they travel and explore all the universe.
The inhabitants of Heaven are not spirits as we human think spirits to be. The inhabitants of Heaven are physical, living in a physical universe, and praising God in a physical Temple. God sits on a physical Throne, and when they eat, they eat and drink real food even as we do, and drink even as we do. They have Glorified bodies, not bodies made from the Earth like ours is, but physical bodies made from what is in Heaven, and their minds which are in their Glorified bodies are not limited, but whatever they can think – IS.
When Jesus rose from the dead, His body was not His Earthly body, it was His body that He has in Heaven, the same that we become if we are chosen to reign with Him, the same as the Angels are.
The Angels that appear to Abraham (Gen 18) when they were headed to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, looked like men of flesh. Abraham asked if they would like something to eat, they accepted and ate food even as we humans do. Jesus also ate with His Disciples in His Heavenly Body after He had risen from the dead. Please read Article “Spirit within us” and “Where after Death” for more information on this.
My point is, Heaven isn’t a spiritual realm, it is a very physical realm, with cities, towns, lands, nations, sky, clouds, animals, plants, trees, mountains, and the entire Universe. Everything that is on Earth can be found in Heaven, except sin.
In Heaven there is NO LAW, despite what the teaching of today says. The Law was made to reveal what sin is to humans. IN Heaven there is no sin, therefore no need of the Law. Everyone automatically loved one another. In Heaven anything you wanted to do, you could do, there was no law forbidding you anything in Heaven. Why would there be a law “Do not steal” if stealing was never done, nor even thought of. If you wanted something, you just make it for yourself, your in Heaven. There was no Law telling you what you could do, when anything you wanted to do, you could do. And there was no law saying what you couldn’t do, because in Heaven there are no restrictions. Please remember, there was no sin, none of the inhabitants ever did what we today would call sin, because there was no sin in Heaven. UNTIL sin was born in Lucifer.
Anything and everything you wanted to do, you could do in Heaven, there was only one thing, one rule (not law mind you) but one thing that you could not do in Heaven, and that was to try to take the Throne of God for yourself. Really it wasn’t even a rule either, it was a given, something that none of the inhabitants even desired to have or even thought to have, UNTIL Lucifer coveted that position, thereby sin was born in him. The very instant Lucifer desired to have what was not his to have, sin was born, Greed, selfishness, and Pride in that instant was born in Lucifer. GREED because he wanted more then he had, SELFISHNESS because he wanted to be worshiped instead of worshiping God, and PRIDE because he actually thought he had the strength and power to make it happen. Lucifer did not want to worship the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) any more. He wanted to be the one that was worshiped instead, he wanted what the Father had, he wanted all the inhabitants of Heaven to worship and praise him. The one thing that you could not do in Heaven, was try to take the Throne of God.
We see this also being revealed in the Garden of Eden on Earth. It was Heaven on Earth for Adam and Eve, Paradise. They could do everything they wanted, they only had one rule that they were to keep, not the 10 commandments, not keep the Sabbath, they only had ONE rule “Do not eat of the tree of knowledge”
Lucifer, the one who caused 1/3 of the angels to be cast out of Heaven also tempted Adam and Eve to break the only rule that they had, so he could get them kicked out of Paradise also.
Lucifer did exactly this in Heaven also. The only rule in Heaven was, not to try to have the Throne for yourself. Satan wanted it, so he tempted 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to go along with his plan, he may have promised them twice as much land as they currently reigned over, who knows? Lucifer is the Father of lies, he lied to them to get them to fall, to get them to help him and his plan, just as he lied to Adam and Eve to get them to fall as well.
What? Sin in Heaven? Never, ever before has there been sin in Heaven, it was born, created in Lucifer, He could have anything he wanted, do anything he wanted, and the only thing he couldn’t have, that, is what he desired, sin was born in him. Lucifer created sin. And once it was created in him, he tempted others to sin as well, which never knew what sin was, because Lucifer’s temptations and lies, that also started to desire those things which Lucifer promised them, they agreed to help him take the Throne of God from the Father, to receive the promises that Lucifer was promising them.
One of two things had to have happened, i know not which, Lucifer after he had convinced 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to follow him tried to take the Throne of God, OR while Lucifer was still recruiting inhabitants of Heaven to join his side, God put a stop to it at that time.
Either way there was war in Heaven. Did you hear me? WAR IN HEAVEN!!! In Heaven, where there is Peace, Happiness, Joy, Love, Praises and Contentment, and now WAR. In a Billion time a Trillion times a Trillion Earth years, there has never been a war in Heaven, A war! Something that was never suppose to have occurred, and the only reason it happened is because sin was born in one spirit being (which was in his Heavenly flesh body- a physical body) called Lucifer, sin nor war has ever been in Heaven until that point that Lucifer created sin in himself.
The war, was not like wars that we have on Earth. On Earth you kill someone they are dead and can no longer participate in the war. But in Heaven, the inhabitants are immortal, they cannot die or be killed. The war in Heaven was not a battle with swords, nor was their any killing at all. It was a binding war, or a restraining war. In order to subdue an inhabitant of Heaven you have to bind him, hold him, or restrain him in some manner, so that he could not continue on in the war.
So then if God has 2/3 of the inhabitants on His side, and Lucifer has only 1/3 of the inhabitants who do you think is going to win a binding war, when there are two to every one that Lucifer had? Of course God won, and Lucifer and his followers (1/3 of the angels in Heaven) were all subdued, held tight, or put in bonds.
Now this is part of the Article that many Christians have a hard time believing, mostly due to the fact that most Christians are still on milk of the word and are not ready to receive meat, and will spit the meat out. But if you will receive it then well. If not, then so be it.
Anyway, here it is. God has a problem! This should be evident, the mere fact that there was a war in Heaven, and sin in Heaven as well, should reveal that there was a problem in Heaven, in which God the Father was responsible for. i say responsible, not for the sin or the war, but to ensure that sin and war would never happen again in Heaven.
Believe it or not there are some people who say and teach, that God knew that Lucifer was going to sin, when God created him, that God knew that there would be war in Heaven, and that He knew He was going to kick 1/3 of all the inhabitant out of Heaven,. They do error and do not know the Truth.
Lucifer according to:
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Was created PERFECT, no defects, perfect just like all of the other perfect inhabitant of Heaven. God did NOT create Lucifer so that one day he would sin and cause a war in Heaven. God created Lucifer PERFECT just like all the others which were created perfect. But Lucifer, on his own, and through his own free will choice, chose to sin against God. Lucifer started sin, he is the Father of it, the creator of it. This was NEVER suppose to have happened. AND GOD DID NOT PLAN FOR THIS TO HAPPEN EITHER. Sin was born, created in, and by, Lucifer, and it caused a war in Heaven. Again, another thing that was NEVER suppose to have happened in Heaven, and again NO God did NOT plan for a war in Heaven, it was NOT the will of God for a war in His Kingdom, a war in Heaven. Sin in Heaven.
Now because of these things, Sin and War in Heaven, God has a problem. How is He going to make sure that sin or war NEVER, ever happens again in Heaven? This is His dilemma. Everything in Heaven was going great since the creation of the inhabitants of Heaven till sin was created by Lucifer. And even though He may kick out Lucifer and all his followers, what is to prevent another in the far distant future to choose to rebel against God and again try to take His Throne? And yet again another war in Heaven?
Another issue God had to address, is how easily Lucifer convinced 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to follow after Lucifer, how 1/3 of them was willing to worship Lucifer instead of God the Creator. God is not a Tyrant, He is not going to make or force inhabitants of Heaven to worship Him. God desires them to freely love Him, not because they have to, but because they want to. But apparently 1/3 of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Heaven did not want to worship Him, they rebelled against Him.
What about the 2/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven that did not rebel against Him? Do they want to worship the Father? Given enough time, could Lucifer had convinced them as well? Will one of these 2/3 in the future desire to take His Throne? Will sin come back in one of these that are left?
There is only one logical conclusion to answer all these questions and at the same time ensure that Heaven will see no more war. And that is to test every inhabitant of the two thirds that remained, to see where their heart is, whether to please God or to please self.
Then He comes up with a brilliant, masterful plan to test those inhabitants. He makes a covenant with Lucifer, that is to say, an agreement with Lucifer. What? Anyone who studies Job Chapter one, can see this covenant at work. Lucifer can’t do anything without permission from God according to Job Chapter one, Lucifer is limited to what he can or can’t do, and all according to what God says he can or can’t do, if this isn’t a covenant, i don’t know what is. Lucifer is bound to the covenant that God set up. And like any covenant, both parties abide by that agreement.
Continued next post
