God of the Paradox

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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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My upbringing didn't have secular leanings. It was neutral I suppose. God was never discussed unless I asked a question and then my father would give me the answer and encourage me to find out more information for myself. He never said there is no god. He just said that some people believed there was one and I was encouraged to make up my own mind. So while it wasn't a forced secular upbringing. The god thing wasn't pushed either. I was taught how to think rather than what to think and I that is now how I raise my son.

But I never had any feeling that there was someone in the skys. First time I heard god mentioned was in school and I thought it was just another story. None of my comments are meant to offend or belittle. Just weighing in with my experience.
No one's offended. I just believe that today it's hard to escape the world view for those of us in the West that there is no God. I mean, how many Christians are there in Europe? Most everyone who comes from Europe I ask about Christianity, and they consistently tell me that religion belongs to the elderly, to the very young or for those who can appreciate tradition and ceremony, but that around the high school age everyone has become an atheist. And I'm not saying that schools teach children that there is no God. That would be ridiculous, save for those schools you find in China. I just feel that if men were deaf and blind to the secular world and its influences, then they would still hold the opinion that there is a God.

Granted, there were those in ancient times who were atheists, but I can't speak for them. But I did ask one atheist recently whether or not he would blame those who lived thousands of years ago for believing in a god. He told me that he would not, because that was what they believed at the time and that was, more or less, Man's best explanation for what he saw of the world. So while you are not teaching your son that there is no God (which is very respectable), I can guarantee you that someone is, whether that be his friends, his enemies, the media, his textbooks, your very status as an atheist. People are not passive in their pursuit of truth. Your son is going to garner as much knowledge from his surrounding environment to make a decision on what to believe. That's just how it is.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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No one's offended. I just believe that today it's hard to escape the world view for those of us in the West that there is no God. I mean, how many Christians are there in Europe? Most everyone who comes from Europe I ask about Christianity, and they consistently tell me that religion belongs to the elderly, to the very young or for those who can appreciate tradition and ceremony, but that around the high school age everyone has become an atheist. And I'm not saying that schools teach children that there is no God. That would be ridiculous, save for those schools you find in China. I just feel that if men were deaf and blind to the secular world and its influences, then they would still hold the opinion that there is a God.

Granted, there were those in ancient times who were atheists, but I can't speak for them. But I did ask one atheist recently whether or not he would blame those who lived thousands of years ago for believing in a god. He told me that he would not, because that was what they believed at the time and that was, more or less, Man's best explanation for what he saw of the world. So while you are not teaching your son that there is no God (which is very respectable), I can guarantee you that someone is, whether that be his friends, his enemies, the media, his textbooks, your very status as an atheist. People are not passive in their pursuit of truth. Your son is going to garner as much knowledge from his surrounding environment to make a decision on what to believe. That's just how it is.
Yeah I actively encourage him to make a decision based on all the information available, and I'm very careful not to influence his decision. Don't get me wrong, I intervene at times.. I won't let him find out for himself that knives are sharp or stoves are hot etc. That stuff calls for immediate intervention lol.

One if the main reasons I don't tell him god doesn't exist is because if he ever engages in a discussion, he will be discussing things from his own experiences and knowledge rather than just saying "My dad says so!"

Not that I'm ever wrong of course lol.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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Yeah I actively encourage him to make a decision based on all the information available, and I'm very careful not to influence his decision. Don't get me wrong, I intervene at times.. I won't let him find out for himself that knives are sharp or stoves are hot etc. That stuff calls for immediate intervention lol.

One if the main reasons I don't tell him god doesn't exist is because if he ever engages in a discussion, he will be discussing things from his own experiences and knowledge rather than just saying "My dad says so!"

Not that I'm ever wrong of course lol.
Well, I wish you and your son success in your pursuit of the truth. :)
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I can assure you, without a shadow of a doubt, that the scripture is wrong. Its wrong to say I know there is a god.
I absolutely and without question do not believe god exists.

To say otherwise would suggest that you are calling me a liar or being dishonest in some way. I can guarantee you that I am no liar... I may be many things, but I am never dishonest or pretend to be something I am not.
I'm thinking preferring logical absurdity to logical evidence constitutes denial of logical truth.

To prefer no First Cause of matter and energy is to prefer logical absurdity to logical evidence.

And that is the nature of the denial of God to which the NT is referring in:

"what may be known about God is plain to them. . .being understood from
what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (R
o 1:19-20)

To deny the existence of God is to deny the logical evidence of God in the origin and existence of matter and energy.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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I'm thinking preferring logical absurdity to logical evidence constitutes denial of logical truth.

To prefer no First Cause of matter and energy is to prefer logical absurdity to logical evidence.

And that is the nature of the denial of God to which the NT is referring in:

"what may be known about God is plain to them. . .being understood from
what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (R
o 1:19-20)

To deny the existence of God is to deny the logical evidence of God in the origin and existence of matter and energy.
Your not getting it are you. I never said there was no first cause. I quite clearly stated I don't know how we all got here.

There are thousands of creation stories as well as countless other explanations as to how it all began.

If there was a creator, you still have a long way to go to prove it was your personal god of choice.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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I'm not an atheist because I have proof god doesn't exist. I'm an atheist because you haven't provided sufficient evidence to prove that he does.

What I claim or don't claim doesn't matter, we are discussing the rejection of yours. And I'm rejecting it because you haven't met your burden of proof.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
ColinCat said:
I can assure you, without a shadow of a doubt, that the
scripture is wrong. Its wrong
to say I know there is a god.
I absolutely and without question do not believe god exists.

To say otherwise would suggest that you are calling me a liar or being dishonest in some way. I can guarantee you that I am no liar... I may be many things, but I am never dishonest or pretend to be something I am not.
I'm thinking preferring logical absurdity to logical evidence constitutes denial of logical truth.

To prefer no First Cause of matter and energy is to prefer logical absurdity to logical evidence.


And that is the nature of the denial of God to which the NT is referring in:

"what may be known about God is plain to them. . .being understood from
what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (R
o 1:19-20)

To deny the existence of God is to deny the logical evidence of God in the origin and existence of matter and energy.
Your not getting it are you. I never said there was no first cause. I quite clearly stated I don't know how we all got here.

There are thousands of creation stories as well as countless other explanations as to how it all began.

If there was a creator, you still have a long way to go to prove it was your personal god of choice.
"If" there were a creator is not affirmation of a first cause.

To "absolutely and without question" not believe god exists is denial of a first cause.

It is likewise to deny the intelligence of that First Cause evidenced in the immutable laws of physics, etc. displayed throughout the entire universe.

Since you do not deny a first cause, then the only thing to decide is which, if any, of the creation stories to believe.

And belief in the Biblical creation story is the sole prerogative of the Holy Spirit.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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"If" there were a creator is not affirmation of a first cause.

To "absolutely and without question" not believe god exists is denial of a first cause.

It is likewise to deny the intelligence of that First Cause evidenced in the immutable laws of physics, etc. displayed throughout the entire universe.

Since you do not deny a first cause, then the only thing to decide is which, if any, of the creation stories to believe.

And belief in the Biblical creation story is the sole prerogative of the Holy Spirit.
That's the problem, I'm yet to come across a convincing, evidence based argument for how we all got here. Hence me not believing in any version of events that are out there at the moment.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Since you do not deny a first cause, then the only thing to decide is which, if any, of the creation stories to believe.

And belief in the Biblical creation story is the sole prerogative of the Holy Spirit.
That's the problem, I'm yet to come across a convincing, evidence based argument for how we all got here. Hence me not believing in any version of events that are out there at the moment.
That depends on whether you believe the avowed eye-witnesses regarding the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth from the dead, and his physical association with them for a period of 40 days before they saw him ascend into a cloud, and two messengers informed them he would come back in the same way they saw him go into heaven.

That's your starting point.
 
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Dec 26, 2014
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yahweh in his word says you are without excuse.

on judgment day you will move from lack of faith, or from faith, to knowing , (remember even demons know he is real, and they tremble in utter horror and fear, because they know their time is short)....

if you are saved before you die, you will live and rejoice in harmony with yahweh eternally.

if you die still without faith(likewise, if your son dies without faith) , then on judgment day you will know, and you will be gone forever without any hope.

that is what is written in scripture, yahweh's word and decree, and no one can change it.

not even yahweh will change it.


I'm sorry to keep pressing on this but its still not very clear to me. So there is a difference between having faith and knowing.

It is possible to move from having faith he exists to knowing he exists?
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Yeah there's no better way to discuss things than pasting verse after verse or linking to websites.

Where is the art of conversation? Lol
Well i posted a link because it is only logical to think that not everyone will want to hear what i have to say on the subject and they can choose to click on the link if they so choose to or ignore it. But in light of your comment here. i will now post my part of the conversation to this topic in its entirety.

What is the meaning of Life? Why are we here? Believe it or not, Scriptures reveals this mystery to us and it all points to one conclusion. We are here to be TESTED, and Judgment Day will determine if we passed or if we failed, if we are Saved or doomed, if we will have everlasting Life or everlasting punishment.

To fully understand this, let us start from the beginning. NOT the beginning of the Earth and human life. But to the beginning why humans would need to be created in the first place.

Before the Earth was even thought of, or even the ideal of humans. There was Heaven. And in Heaven, there were a multitude of spirit beings, maybe billions upon trillions or a hundred trillion spirit being in Heaven. There was a government in Heaven. The Father was there, the Son was there and the Holy Ghost was there. After that you have Arch Angels, then Cherubim, and yet others, then others. We know not what the rest of the chain of command was in Heaven. Nor is it relevant for us to know such information. In Heaven they had a Temple, We know this because Rev 11:19 says “and the Temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His Temple the Ark of His Testament .. .. .. .. .. .

This is the Same Temple that Moses was instructed to copy for a pattern of the Temple that was built on the Earth (see Heb 8:1-5 )

So then, Heaven has always had a Temple, and that Temple is built on land with trees that are Tree of life producing fruits every month, and there is an atmosphere there where the Temple is, with clouds and a sky as well.

Far too many people have a misconception what Heaven is like, they think a Spiritual realm, a place that everyone are ghosts, not real, not physical. They think of Heaven as a place, not for the physical, but for the spiritual. That Angels are everywhere floating and flying about in the sky. Heaven is not like that at all. It is very much like the Earth, but what is in the Earth is only 1/12th what actually is in Heaven, for example, if there are 1,000 different kinds of roses, there are 12,000 different kinds of roses in Heaven. For example our fruit trees only produce one type of fruit, in Heaven the fruit bearing trees produce 12 different fruits on each tree (Rev 22:2)

In Heaven, there are dwelling places for each of the inhabitants, there are lands, and rivers of water, and lakes, they go to where the Temple is to worship and praise God, they eat and drink, and celebrate feast days, whatever the Lord had established for the inhabitants to celebrate, they travel and explore all the universe.

The inhabitants of Heaven are not spirits as we human think spirits to be. The inhabitants of Heaven are physical, living in a physical universe, and praising God in a physical Temple. God sits on a physical Throne, and when they eat, they eat and drink real food even as we do, and drink even as we do. They have Glorified bodies, not bodies made from the Earth like ours is, but physical bodies made from what is in Heaven, and their minds which are in their Glorified bodies are not limited, but whatever they can think – IS.

When Jesus rose from the dead, His body was not His Earthly body, it was His body that He has in Heaven, the same that we become if we are chosen to reign with Him, the same as the Angels are.

The Angels that appear to Abraham (Gen 18) when they were headed to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, looked like men of flesh. Abraham asked if they would like something to eat, they accepted and ate food even as we humans do. Jesus also ate with His Disciples in His Heavenly Body after He had risen from the dead. Please read Article “Spirit within us” and “Where after Death” for more information on this.

My point is, Heaven isn’t a spiritual realm, it is a very physical realm, with cities, towns, lands, nations, sky, clouds, animals, plants, trees, mountains, and the entire Universe. Everything that is on Earth can be found in Heaven, except sin.

In Heaven there is NO LAW, despite what the teaching of today says. The Law was made to reveal what sin is to humans. IN Heaven there is no sin, therefore no need of the Law. Everyone automatically loved one another. In Heaven anything you wanted to do, you could do, there was no law forbidding you anything in Heaven. Why would there be a law “Do not steal” if stealing was never done, nor even thought of. If you wanted something, you just make it for yourself, your in Heaven. There was no Law telling you what you could do, when anything you wanted to do, you could do. And there was no law saying what you couldn’t do, because in Heaven there are no restrictions. Please remember, there was no sin, none of the inhabitants ever did what we today would call sin, because there was no sin in Heaven. UNTIL sin was born in Lucifer.

Anything and everything you wanted to do, you could do in Heaven, there was only one thing, one rule (not law mind you) but one thing that you could not do in Heaven, and that was to try to take the Throne of God for yourself. Really it wasn’t even a rule either, it was a given, something that none of the inhabitants even desired to have or even thought to have, UNTIL Lucifer coveted that position, thereby sin was born in him. The very instant Lucifer desired to have what was not his to have, sin was born, Greed, selfishness, and Pride in that instant was born in Lucifer. GREED because he wanted more then he had, SELFISHNESS because he wanted to be worshiped instead of worshiping God, and PRIDE because he actually thought he had the strength and power to make it happen. Lucifer did not want to worship the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) any more. He wanted to be the one that was worshiped instead, he wanted what the Father had, he wanted all the inhabitants of Heaven to worship and praise him. The one thing that you could not do in Heaven, was try to take the Throne of God.

We see this also being revealed in the Garden of Eden on Earth. It was Heaven on Earth for Adam and Eve, Paradise. They could do everything they wanted, they only had one rule that they were to keep, not the 10 commandments, not keep the Sabbath, they only had ONE rule “Do not eat of the tree of knowledge”

Lucifer, the one who caused 1/3 of the angels to be cast out of Heaven also tempted Adam and Eve to break the only rule that they had, so he could get them kicked out of Paradise also.

Lucifer did exactly this in Heaven also. The only rule in Heaven was, not to try to have the Throne for yourself. Satan wanted it, so he tempted 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to go along with his plan, he may have promised them twice as much land as they currently reigned over, who knows? Lucifer is the Father of lies, he lied to them to get them to fall, to get them to help him and his plan, just as he lied to Adam and Eve to get them to fall as well.

What? Sin in Heaven? Never, ever before has there been sin in Heaven, it was born, created in Lucifer, He could have anything he wanted, do anything he wanted, and the only thing he couldn’t have, that, is what he desired, sin was born in him. Lucifer created sin. And once it was created in him, he tempted others to sin as well, which never knew what sin was, because Lucifer’s temptations and lies, that also started to desire those things which Lucifer promised them, they agreed to help him take the Throne of God from the Father, to receive the promises that Lucifer was promising them.

One of two things had to have happened, i know not which, Lucifer after he had convinced 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to follow him tried to take the Throne of God, OR while Lucifer was still recruiting inhabitants of Heaven to join his side, God put a stop to it at that time.

Either way there was war in Heaven. Did you hear me? WAR IN HEAVEN!!! In Heaven, where there is Peace, Happiness, Joy, Love, Praises and Contentment, and now WAR. In a Billion time a Trillion times a Trillion Earth years, there has never been a war in Heaven, A war! Something that was never suppose to have occurred, and the only reason it happened is because sin was born in one spirit being (which was in his Heavenly flesh body- a physical body) called Lucifer, sin nor war has ever been in Heaven until that point that Lucifer created sin in himself.

The war, was not like wars that we have on Earth. On Earth you kill someone they are dead and can no longer participate in the war. But in Heaven, the inhabitants are immortal, they cannot die or be killed. The war in Heaven was not a battle with swords, nor was their any killing at all. It was a binding war, or a restraining war. In order to subdue an inhabitant of Heaven you have to bind him, hold him, or restrain him in some manner, so that he could not continue on in the war.

So then if God has 2/3 of the inhabitants on His side, and Lucifer has only 1/3 of the inhabitants who do you think is going to win a binding war, when there are two to every one that Lucifer had? Of course God won, and Lucifer and his followers (1/3 of the angels in Heaven) were all subdued, held tight, or put in bonds.

Now this is part of the Article that many Christians have a hard time believing, mostly due to the fact that most Christians are still on milk of the word and are not ready to receive meat, and will spit the meat out. But if you will receive it then well. If not, then so be it.

Anyway, here it is. God has a problem! This should be evident, the mere fact that there was a war in Heaven, and sin in Heaven as well, should reveal that there was a problem in Heaven, in which God the Father was responsible for. i say responsible, not for the sin or the war, but to ensure that sin and war would never happen again in Heaven.

Believe it or not there are some people who say and teach, that God knew that Lucifer was going to sin, when God created him, that God knew that there would be war in Heaven, and that He knew He was going to kick 1/3 of all the inhabitant out of Heaven,. They do error and do not know the Truth.

Lucifer according to:

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Was created PERFECT, no defects, perfect just like all of the other perfect inhabitant of Heaven. God did NOT create Lucifer so that one day he would sin and cause a war in Heaven. God created Lucifer PERFECT just like all the others which were created perfect. But Lucifer, on his own, and through his own free will choice, chose to sin against God. Lucifer started sin, he is the Father of it, the creator of it. This was NEVER suppose to have happened. AND GOD DID NOT PLAN FOR THIS TO HAPPEN EITHER. Sin was born, created in, and by, Lucifer, and it caused a war in Heaven. Again, another thing that was NEVER suppose to have happened in Heaven, and again NO God did NOT plan for a war in Heaven, it was NOT the will of God for a war in His Kingdom, a war in Heaven. Sin in Heaven.

Now because of these things, Sin and War in Heaven, God has a problem. How is He going to make sure that sin or war NEVER, ever happens again in Heaven? This is His dilemma. Everything in Heaven was going great since the creation of the inhabitants of Heaven till sin was created by Lucifer. And even though He may kick out Lucifer and all his followers, what is to prevent another in the far distant future to choose to rebel against God and again try to take His Throne? And yet again another war in Heaven?

Another issue God had to address, is how easily Lucifer convinced 1/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven to follow after Lucifer, how 1/3 of them was willing to worship Lucifer instead of God the Creator. God is not a Tyrant, He is not going to make or force inhabitants of Heaven to worship Him. God desires them to freely love Him, not because they have to, but because they want to. But apparently 1/3 of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Heaven did not want to worship Him, they rebelled against Him.

What about the 2/3 of the inhabitants of Heaven that did not rebel against Him? Do they want to worship the Father? Given enough time, could Lucifer had convinced them as well? Will one of these 2/3 in the future desire to take His Throne? Will sin come back in one of these that are left?

There is only one logical conclusion to answer all these questions and at the same time ensure that Heaven will see no more war. And that is to test every inhabitant of the two thirds that remained, to see where their heart is, whether to please God or to please self.

Then He comes up with a brilliant, masterful plan to test those inhabitants. He makes a covenant with Lucifer, that is to say, an agreement with Lucifer. What? Anyone who studies Job Chapter one, can see this covenant at work. Lucifer can’t do anything without permission from God according to Job Chapter one, Lucifer is limited to what he can or can’t do, and all according to what God says he can or can’t do, if this isn’t a covenant, i don’t know what is. Lucifer is bound to the covenant that God set up. And like any covenant, both parties abide by that agreement.

Continued next post
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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i do not know word for word what the covenant is, but i have a general ideal how the conversation might have taken place.

The scene: Lucifer and all his followers stand before God to be Judged before the Throne of God. On the Throne of God in the middle of the Throne is the Father, which is not physical but a brilliant light full of Love and Goodness, so bright it is difficult to even look upon it, To the right of this brilliant light, on the Throne sits Jesus Christ, which is physical, and to the left of this brilliant light, on the Throne, sits the Holy Ghost, which is spiritual. Now Lucifer is standing before the Throne of God with the Arch Angels Gabriel and Michael standing on each side of a restrained Lucifer.

God says to Lucifer “You have sinned, and have convinced 1/3 of all of Heaven to rebel against Me, to try to take My Throne. I could cast you and all your followers into the Abyss forever, but instead I am going to create a planet called Earth, and cast you and your followers onto that planet, you will be confined to that planet and its vicinity. I then will create human flesh from that planet, in our image, and put each inhabitant that did not rebel against Me into that flesh to be tested. And they will be tested by you and your followers”

Lucifer says to God “Why in all of Heaven, would I help you test anyone? I will help you do nothing”

God replies to Lucifer “Tell Me, why did you lose this war?” Lucifer looks around as if dumbfounded, and astonished to be asked such a question, but answers anyway “Because, as you will know, you had two to every one of my followers, it was two to one, you know this, so why are you asking me this?”

God calmly asks “So you believe that if you had more followers then I did, you would have won?” Lucifer says “Yes, the only reason you won is because you had more followers, if I would have had the most followers, I would have most certainly would have won!”

God says “ Then you will help Me test each of the two thirds that did not rebel against Me, and each one you get to continue to live in sin, will be yours to keep”

Lucifer responds “That is interesting indeed, but to what point? Even if I convince every single one of them to follow me, the outcome is still me in the Abyss, and I have helped you. NO! I’m not going to help you test them”

God responds “I will create the planet Earth, and cast you and your followers to that Earth, I will create human bodies to put each of these inhabitants that did not rebel, into those bodies. You will try to get them to live in sin. For 6 days (6,000 years in Earth time) Those who live in sin will be yours to keep. At the end of the 6 days you and your followers will be confined in the bottomless pit for one day to observe the Sabbath day (1,000 years in Earth time) During that time you are confined, followers of Jesus will repopulate the Earth, and the New City Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven for the Saints to inhabit it. At the end of the Sabbath Day (1,000 year Millennium) you and all your followers will be released, even all the dead will rise with you. There will be one last war. A war of wars”

Lucifer asks “A war for what though, your Throne?” God responds “The war will be for the New City Jerusalem. Where my Throne will be (Rev 22:3 ) you think if you had the numbers that you would have won this war. At the end of the week, you will have the Many while I’ll have the few, the war will be for the New City Jerusalem. If you take the City you will not be cast into the Abyss, but with the City you will have access to the Universe and all of Heaven.”

Now this Lucifer agrees to, and there is a covenant between God and him, and many stipulations that are agreed upon which i will not discuss in this Article.

So then God creates the Earth, then He casts Lucifer to the Earth calling his name satan and devil. And casts satan’s followers to the Earth as well calling them devils and demons. Then God creates the human flesh from the Earth and He puts the first inhabitant of Heaven, into that body that He created from the Earth by breathing into it the breath of life, which is the spirit of the one who was put into the body, for without that spirit, the body would not live.

Then God created the woman, not from the Earth, but God created the woman from the man, but that flesh could not live without a spirit in it either, so the next inhabitant of Heaven turns into spirit and enters the woman, and then the flesh lives (flesh + spirit = Living Soul)

Then God allows satan into the Garden. Yes you heard correctly. God allowed satan to be in the Garden of Eden to do what satan does. What then? God didn’t know satan was there? What? Did satan sneak into the Garden without God knowing it? God forbid, He knew.

Remember, God and satan have an agreement. It was NEVER Gods intention for Adam and Eve to live in the Garden forever. God knew before He even created the Earth, that He was going to send His Son Jesus to the Earth. He knew this before Adam was ever created. Knowing that He was going to send His Son for our sins, He knew full well that Adam and Eve would sin as well. For all have sinned. God knew full well Adam and Eve while in Earthly flesh, AND with satan tempting them to commit sin, that eventually (being of the Earth and flesh) they would sin.

Think about it, if God wanted them to live forever in the Garden of Eden, then they would have, if that is what God wanted. If God wanted them to live forever in the Garden. God would never have put the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden to begin with, but He did. He would never have allowed satan to enter into the Garden either, but He did allow him to. Adam and Eve had to sin, so God’s plan of Salvation can come about, not that God wanted them to sin, He did not! But He knew they would sin.

God knew that there was going to be a Judgment Day, before He ever created the Earth. Know you not that ALL of God’s plans come to pass? God has never made a plan that did not happen. If God planned for Adam and Eve to live in the Garden of Eden forever, i assure you Adam and Eve would still be there to this day. God’s plans do not fail. It was never His plan that Adam and Eve remain in the Garden forever.

Anyway back to the topic, we are all here to be tested, and we see examples of this throughout all of the Scriptures. A perfect example is in Genesis 22:1-12 where God tests Abraham, by asking him to sacrifice his only son, pay attention why God tested him in this verse:

Genesis 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

This is why we are tested, so God will know what is in our hearts, even Jesus said our actions (our fruits) shows what is in our hearts. So God will test us to see what is in our hearts.

You are alive right now, because the Spirit inside of you, is being tested. And Judgment Day is when you will be graded. You will either be obedient and PASS or living in sin and FAIL. Your either one or the other.

At the end of God’s week (7,000 Earth years), after the Great White Throne Judgment. Those who are True Christians will reign with Christ in Heaven, those are they who were not selfish, and loved God more than they loved sin, these are they who denied their selfish desires to please God.

In the end. Only those who Truly love God will be in Heaven, they did not love self more than God, there will never be another war in Heaven, and the few that make it, will never dream of sinning against God, they love Him to much to do that. If a person on Earth can forsake their sins for God while on the Earth where it is extremely difficult to do so and narrow is that path, then these will never sin or rebel against God while in Heaven.

God is testing the two thirds of the inhabitants of Heaven which did not rebel, so He will only have those who WANT to serve and worship Him, who were willing to deny self to serve God. These are they who God desires to be with Him, and He will give them the Universe and all of Heaven.

But those who continue to live in sin will not belong to God in the end. Your Master is to whom you obey, who you obey is your Master. Woe to this generation, which says with their mouth, that their Master is Jesus Christ, yet they knowingly and willingly obey satan and commit sins, and do not ever cease from them. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, by those who claim to be Christians and are not.

i pray to God that the Holy Ghost will open your eyes to the Truth that we are all being TESTED, Do what the Bible says and teaches, so that you may PASS the test. Namely LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
70
48
Or was it better to just post a link? and give everybody the choice to either go read it or not? OR, take up area and space here on this thread, to converse what i would like to say on the matter?

i like to give people the choice, by putting a link.

And as to conversing, i would love to hear from you regarding what you thought about the article? This is called conversing, yes?

^i^
 
R

Rudimental

Guest
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.

Lean not on your own understanding.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
For me to love him, I have to believe he exists. Point A to point B.

I can't even move to the love position because I cant even get to the first position.

It could also be argued that my freedom of choice is being taken away from me. The lack of evidence for gods existence doesn't allow me to make a choice to love him.

Let's prove he exists first, then I can make a decision whether I want a loving relationship with him or not.
But God is not a philosophical proposition which can be proved externally to Him. True there are many things which point to His existence from which we can build up some idea of Him. But it will not be a true picture. And it will always be in doubt. It is by coming to KNOW Him that we can find the truth. That is why He gave us the Scriptures so that through them we might come to know Him and His ways. The best way to come to know God is by fairly considering the life of Jesus Christ. His teaching is admitted by all sound moral judges to have been supreme. His personality comes out through His life. And what we come to see Him to be is the clinching argument.

Those whose hearts are genuine will in this way come to 'believe'. If they do not it is because they allow sin to come between them and God.

'He who wills to do His will, will know of My teaching whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself' (John 7.17)
 
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W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
On a conscious level you have convinced yourself of the lie that God does not exist; However, on a subconscious level, you still know He exists. All people who deny God's existence are holding the truth in unrighteousness. Read the following passage below, my friend.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:18-23).
This does not make sense - yet you defended it. Specifically:
All people who deny God's existence are holding the truth in unrighteousness.
What on earth did you mean by this? What does it mean, to "hold the truth in unrighteousness"?

Also, how you can claim to know what this individual's thoughts are (both conscious and subconscious) is beyond my understanding.

Unbelievable.
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
Please take note that I said it was your SUBconscious mind and NOT your CONscious mind I was referring to. Unless you are able to somehow tap into your subconscious somehow, I don't see how you are aware of what your subconscious mind is thinking. So are you aware of what your mind is thinking? Conscious? Yes. Subconscious? No.
Even here! You state that you don't see how someone can be aware of what their subconscious mind is thinking -- and this is your defense, AFTER telling this person that YOU know what THEIR subconscious mind is thinking.

Post after post of contradictions... I am beginning to think that your purpose is to create divisions here on CC.