God of the Paradox

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breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#21
If a book makes a claim, then you defend that claim by saying the book says so, then its not a valid argument.

The book itself hasn't even been confirmed as being true. And if you want to refer to a book to validate something, then the book has to have been proven to be true, otherwise the argument fails immediately.
If the book says harry potter is a wizard and someone tries to say, no he is a construction worker, that person is in denial and will continue to spread untruth about who harry potter is because he is trying to find an answer on who he is outside of what the book says. Which is madness because it has been written for our knowledge.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#22
If the book says harry potter is a wizard and someone tries to say, no he is a construction worker, that person is in denial and will continue to spread untruth about who harry potter is because he is trying to find an answer on who he is outside of what the book says. Which is madness because it has been written for our knowledge.
Then we need to get to the point of establishing the bible is truth. How do we get to that position?
 
W

WalkByTheSpirit

Guest
#23
The Truth can be found in this article The Meaning of Life. Answers the questions presented.

^i^ Responding to OP
Hi DiscipleDave, you believe that we are the "reincarnated" host of heaven? Do you use extrabiblical sources to arrive at this conclusion or can this theory be created using the Bible alone?
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#24
Not in the eyes of a believer of course. But someone outside of your faith needs something a little more substantial than "The Bible Says"

If I present an argument to you and said "The Qu'ran says..." That statement would mean nothing to you, would you agree?
Yes well that is true, (I guess it depends on the statement, the qu'ran says "God is most merciful" which is true) but I wouldn't go onto a muslim website and expect them to not use the qu'ran to answer questions lol :)
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#25
Then we need to get to the point of establishing the bible is truth. How do we get to that position?
By meeting the one who wrote it :) I'm pretty sure i've said before, you can't intellectualise God lol I tried doing that and I kept hitting my head against a brick wall.
 
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WalkByTheSpirit

Guest
#26
Then we need to get to the point of establishing the bible is truth. How do we get to that position?
That is the beginning of wisdom right there. Be scientific about it and throw every test you can at it
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#27
Yes well that is true, (I guess it depends on the statement, the qu'ran says "God is most merciful" which is true) but I wouldn't go onto a muslim website and expect them to not use the qu'ran to answer questions lol :)
No that's true lol. This is why debates never really work. I question something, you reference something in the bible to back it up, I say the bible is not evidence. And so on.

I know its futile, which is why I like to discuss finer points and this video is a good example of that. But we always seem to fall into the same circle lol
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#28
I suppose the ultimate question is.. Why are you a Christian? Why do you believe the bible?
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#29
No that's true lol. This is why debates never really work. I question something, you reference something in the bible to back it up, I say the bible is not evidence. And so on.

I know its futile, which is why I like to discuss finer points and this video is a good example of that. But we always seem to fall into the same circle lol
Yeah well that makes sense so since we are on a christian chat site, what shall we do then? lol I'm sure that question has been asked before.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#30
I suppose the ultimate question is.. Why are you a Christian? Why do you believe the bible?
I'm a christian because I let go of what I knew and sought God with my heart, same reason why I believe the bible. I sought God then started reading the bible, not the other way round.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#31
I'm a christian because I let go of what I knew and sought God with my heart, same reason why I believe the bible. I sought God then started reading the bible, not the other way round.
So let's say, through some ridiculous hypothetical situation.. That the bible is proven false, would you still believe in a god?
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#32
of course, the mother could always leave the stove off. that way the child never gets burned by the stove.

some peoples spirit just stays off all the time, but that's more the tragic --- they will be burned to nothingness after

they hit the lake of fire. this happens whether they were ever burned before or not, whether they ever believe it

of not, whether they do what they think is good or bad or naughty or nice or murder or not..... i.e. there's nothing

they can do to prevent it from happening.....

...
..
.

unless the Creator's Word is true (which, of course, it is).... and also IF HE SHOWS THEM MERCY.... because

........................
........................................... IF HE DOESN'T SHOW THEM MERCY, they don't have a chance no matter what.

and

of course

they don't have to believe anything if they don't want to. no worries. everything will happen without them believing. they're not in charge of anything.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#33
So let's say, through some ridiculous hypothetical situation.. That the bible is proven false, would you still believe in a god?
Nicely worded :) but yes, I would still be in love with my Father in heaven.
 
W

WalkByTheSpirit

Guest
#34
I suppose the ultimate question is.. Why are you a Christian? Why do you believe the bible?
I'm a Christian because I spent years studying every religion, philosophy and "holy book" until it became obvious which one is the real one. It's something you would have to do for yourself if you are into critical thinking and seeking truth like I myself am. Just pray for wisdom and truth and start looking. If you want to talk specifics and get into more detail on things, pm me
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#35
This video is making the rounds on many Christian forums of late as it proposes a quandary as to the Omni-powers of God and the part humans play in the faith paradigm.

Admittedly the audio is a bit much to take. That is the edited version I sought out as the longer near 11 minute one is the one making the rounds.

How do we respond to those points? The paradigm an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, God set forth being he has foreknowledge, has predestined the world and our lives before the foundation of the world, and all per scripture. How Satan cannot act without God's permission, and how Jesus, knowing his destiny was to die for the worlds sins, could not have then made what would be defined as a sacrifice of himself.

All gleaned from the video but if you can make it through see what you think.

I'll admit this atheist production, yes, I know, "well they're atheists. There's your answer right there!" , but it isn't that simple. This rationalizes the Biblical points to arrive at what for me is a real curiosity about faith and reason.

Thank you for your patience if you do watch this. And sincere heart felt educated replies are requested. This is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. It is posted to help me overcome my own confusion being a new seeker of the Way.

Thank you for reading.
My first point to you would be, that as a new believer, you have no business trafficking with anti-Christian propaganda.
Your only job is to become grounded in the word of God.
You have to choose who you are going to believe, the word of God or the word of man.
If you don't know which is which, then you need to pray fervently to God to show you.

Secondly, I'll start with Jesus not making a sacrifice of himself.

Before all things existed, the Son and the Father purposed the redemption of men by the Son.
In time, the Son came to die as propitiation for men as determined in eternity past according to their plan.

And thirdly, those to whom God has given the gift of faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27) see and
understand things which anti-theists deny because their unregenerate human reasoning
does not agree that God is the all-worthy center of the Universe, for whose purpose and
pleasure all things exist.

They are foolish enough to think they have a say in the matter, and seek to call God to the bar
of their reason to give an account of himself. . .or he can be God no longer.

Their real issue is not the logic or truth of Scripture,
their real issue is refusal to believe in and submit to God and to the truth he has revealed.

You cannot begin to overcome their unbelief with logic, reasoning or sound explanations.
The only power that will overcome their unbelief is the convicting work of the Holy Spirit.

Don't burden yourself with the task of trying to change their minds.
Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

If you want to do something for them, then pray for them.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#37
a good post, Elin,

I would just add that keeping a close watch
on one's assets would be something to
keep in mind.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#38
Well yeah.. Cos its like some saying "Harry Potter isn't a wizard", and then someone replies with "Yes he is, it says so in Chapter 1 of the Philosophers Stone!"

The bible isn't evidence for a claim, the bible IS the claim.
The Bible is unlike any other book in human history. It is a divinely inspired book that has tons of observable evidences that backs it up.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...cal-evidences-supporting-truth-gods-word.html

Only if you fight in not wanting to see that the Bible is God's Word, will you then not see it for what it truly is. But if you seek and knock and ask God to show you the truth of His Word, then He will help you to do that because God loves you and desires to be in a personal relationship with you.

Bit if the mother knew in advance, with absolute certainty that the child would touch the stove... Is she a good mother by turning it on not doing anything to prevent it?
I think you are not looking at the big picture. So you are using the wrong analogy. Sometimes parents have to let their children do things that might put them at risk in stubbing their toe, or in them in getting a scraped knee, or in them having their feelings potentially hurt for them to grow and learn as a part of life. Parents train their child in the way of trying to protect them as best as possible, and then there comes a point where the child must leave the nest and start to do things themselves so that they can fly and thrive withn the world on their own two feet. God is like a loving father who wants the best thing for us. He does not give us everything in life like the rich father who spoils his children by giving them everything in life (That they ask for). They would never appreciate anything. This life is about drawing close to the Lord in a deep relationship and in appreciating God. If you just had everything handed to you on a silver platter with no challenges whatsoever, then you really would have no reason to appreciate the love and protection that God can provide for us. God wanted free willed beings that would truly love Him of their own free will. Having free will brings evil into the picture. But it is only temporary, though. Evil will not last forever. All sin and evil will be destroyed.
 
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Sep 14, 2014
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#39
The Bible is unlike any other book in human history. It is a divinely inspired book that has tons of observable evidences that backs it up. Only if you fight in not wanting to see that the Bible is God's Word, will you then not see it for what it truly is. But if you seek and knock and ask God to show you the truth of His Word, then He will help you to do that because God loves you and desires to be in a personal relationship with you.



I think you are not looking at the big picture. So you are using the wrong analogy. Sometimes parents have to let their children do things that might put them at risk in stubbing their toe, or in them in getting a scraped knee, or in them having their feelings potentially hurt for them to grow and learn as a part of life. Parents train their child in the way of trying to protect them as best as possible, and then there comes a point where the child must leave the nest and start to do things themselves so that they can fly and thrive withn the world on their own two feet. God is like a loving father who wants the best thing for us. He does not give us everything in life like the rich father who spoils his children by giving them everything in life (That they ask for). They would never appreciate anything. This life is about drawing close to the Lord in a deep relationship and in appreciating God. If you just had everything handed to you on a silver platter with no challenges whatsoever, then you really would have no reason to appreciate the love and protection that God can provide for us. God wanted free willed beings that would truly love Him of their own free will. Having free will brings evil into the picture. But it is only temporary, though. Evil will not last forever. All sin and evil will be destroyed.
I didn't bring up the analogy in the first place. Plus its a little different for a child to hurt itself and learn from the experience so he doesn't do it again. Plus all children who follow won't suffer because a kid touched a stove.

I don't recall eve having the same privelidge. One strike and she was out.. So to speak.

Not even a warning or anything. Instant curse for the rest of humanity.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#40
In other words, would a loving parent stop their children from playing baseball just because they got hurt once? No. It's a part of the game. They learn in playing and train themselves so as to be a better athlete. It's the same thing with a person who loves God. They are athletes or soldiers for God. They know that the hardships and trials they might face is just going to make them better athletes and or soldiers for the Lord (So as to deepen their relationship in loving God more and in loving all people even more, - Especially their enemies).